[Deck] Suicide Black

[Nihil Credo]

how are either Leyline of the Void or Engineered Plague in any way good against Affinity? You do realize "Artifact Creature" is not a creature type, right, and as far as I knew they didn't have any graveyard recursion, the closest I can imagine is that you are suggesting the Leylines as a way to prevent damage from Disciple of the Vault???

Leyline of the Void prevents Modular as well as Disciple's ability from triggering. Both are a large part of what wins Affinity so many games.

Every single creature in Affinity has a creature type. Oracle is tech.

[DalkonCledwin]

Leyline of the Void prevents Modular as well as Disciple's ability from triggering. Both are a large part of what wins Affinity so many games.

Every single creature in Affinity has a creature type. Oracle is tech.

Thanks for the tip on Leyline, I really appreciate that, I will use it in my next match against Affinity :D

yes, but there are so many different creature types in Affinity that Engineered Plague is all but useless against them. I mean the only creature I can actually imagining it having any impact against is the ravager itself.

[Esper3k]

Thanks for the tip on Leyline, I really appreciate that, I will use it in my next match against Affinity :D

yes, but there are so many different creature types in Affinity that Engineered Plague is all but useless against them. I mean the only creature I can actually imagining it having any impact against is the ravager itself.

While EP might not be ideal to use against Affinity, if you already have it in your sideboard, it's not bad to board in.

EP set to Beast (hits Ravagers) or Cleric (hits Disciples) is pretty good.

I'd probably hit the Disciples first myself as if they're running Master of Etherium, Ravagers will survive a Plague.

[Damnosus]

I have found Jitte to be pretty effective in this match as well-it seems like every time I land one and get it active, I win.

Extirpate targets: plating (if you can get them to discard it), MoE, Ravager, DoV. Everything else you should be able to deal with.

[DalkonCledwin]

thanks guys, I will try all these suggestions next time I play affinity :D

[rleader]

I've never played sui black compitively (unless you count a proto-red death deck back in 1995), but I've tried my hand at affinity:

The Agreed-Upon Legacy Affinity deck is something that nobody knows if it's any good as there's never been any really serious testing of it: it's like we just said, well, let's take the ext. version and slow it waaaaay the hell down, it just HAS to be better here because we put banned cards back in. But think of it this way, the deck has two combos that are actually opposed to each other: saccing artifacts to make bigger artifacts and having a bunch of artifacts to boost a piece of equipment/and now master. The only time those are AT ALL synergistic is if Disciple sticks, otherwise, the two combos completely cancel each other out. So be able to kill Disciple or mute it's ability. (both are covered above)

Bitterblossom crushes affinity if they're not expecting it with a plague of their own (although most are, because affinity players really wish they had a goblins deck so they sideboard for it even though they'll probably never play against one, just because they have it on their brain). I mock. But I speak from personal experience.

Encroach. No, it's not a good card, but here it's a day wrecker. Legacy Affinity players don't mulligan the way that Ext. Affinity players do (which is to say they mulligan more often), as we value cards over aggro speed, thinking we can get one combo or another. So a lot of bad hands are kept.

[Raptor]

I'm thinking about making a Suicide Black, but I have a budget of about 250-300$.

Currently I have these card :
4 x Duress,
4 x Hymn to Tourach
4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Hypnotic specter
3 x Nantuko Shade
3 x Umezawa's jitte
4 x Cabal Therapy
4 x Diabolic Edict
4 x Smother


So I'm thinking about a build, but I won't be able to get 4 x Wastedland, 4 x Fetch land, 4 x Thoughtseize and 4 x Sinkhole.

So in a deck with the Stalker, are the fetchland really THAT necessary, and with a tempo oriented deck, can cabal therapy take the place of thoughtseize without hurting the deck too much ?

[DalkonCledwin]

So in a deck with the Stalker, are the fetchland really THAT necessary, and with a tempo oriented deck, can cabal therapy take the place of thoughtseize without hurting the deck too much ?

I am currently running 4x Stalker in my suicide black deck, and honestly, I only have 1x Fetchland (a Bloodstained Mire) and I have absolutely no trouble getting Tombstalker out when I need him out. As for Cabal Therapy, no I don't think it really can take the place of thoughtseize, unless you absolutely have 100% knowledge of what is in your opponents hand when you play it (in otherwords you need to be playing Duress with it).

[3duece]

I'm thinking about making a Suicide Black, but I have a budget of about 250-300$.

Currently I have these card :
4 x Duress,
4 x Hymn to Tourach
4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Hypnotic specter
3 x Nantuko Shade
3 x Umezawa's jitte
4 x Cabal Therapy
4 x Diabolic Edict
4 x Smother


So I'm thinking about a build, but I won't be able to get 4 x Wastedland, 4 x Fetch land, 4 x Thoughtseize and 4 x Sinkhole.

So in a deck with the Stalker, are the fetchland really THAT necessary, and with a tempo oriented deck, can cabal therapy take the place of thoughtseize without hurting the deck too much ?

4 wasteland $40-$45
4 bloodstained mire $55-$60
4 thoughtseize $60
4 beta sinkhole $120
max $285 (these are a high estimate, above motl and ebay prices)

Fetchlands aren't entirely necessary with tombstalker, but they will cut a turn or two off of him and allow you to play more than one more consistently. I play the full eight fetches and I wouldn't go without, especially since that lets you splash a color for the sideboard.

[Raptor]

4 wasteland $40-$45
4 bloodstained mire $55-$60
4 thoughtseize $60
4 beta sinkhole $120
max $285 (these are a high estimate, above motl and ebay prices)

Fetchlands aren't entirely necessary with tombstalker, but they will cut a turn or two off of him and allow you to play more than one more consistently. I play the full eight fetches and I wouldn't go without, especially since that lets you splash a color for the sideboard.

Where I buy these cards, either at a local store or at STG, thoughtseize go for 20-25$ each :S
+ I will need to buy tombstalker, and some other cards... :S

By the way, could I ask what is motl ? :)
Thanks

[3duece]

Absolutely. Motl stands for magic online trading league- www.magictraders.com. Lots of great sellers and traders with good references offering huge inventories of alpha through shards. Plus, they have a price guide for ever card ever printed showing a low, high and average that they go for on the site. Most people sell at or below ebay prices. 20-25 for a thoughtsieze is absolutely obscene.

[DalkonCledwin]

I would like to introduce you all to... Phyrexian Negator's little brother... and possibly the card that will make Phyrexian Negator obsolete:

Nyxathid
Creature - Horror (Rare)
When Nyxathid comes into play, choose an opponent.
Nyxathid has -1/-1 for each card in the chosen opponent's hand.
7/7

confirmed as a card in Conflux....

of course you will want to play some disruption before playing this card... but imagine the possibilities of the following opening hand:

Swamp, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach, Thoughtseize, Nixathid, Hymn to Tourach, with a swamp in the top 2 cards of the library.

strip them of 3 cards on the first turn, Play Nixathid as a 3/3, drop a second Hymn stripping them of 2 more cards... bringing Nyixathid up to a 5/5 and attack with him... assuming they haven't played any cards, which they probably won't want to do anymore as soon as you play Nixathid, as it basically says "Don't play anymore cards or I hit you harder" just like Taurean Mauler does... sure it isn't as powerful as a 5/5 that has trample... but it can get bigger with enough of a disruption package, and doesn't have that nasty side effect of killing off all of your cards when hit by burn or creatures.

[3duece]

Dang, that's really interesting. Playing that card, I guess I would want to give up sinkhole for more discard, duress or maybe unmask. Just because the ld plan kind of encourages them to have a larger hand. Definitely better than ashenmoore gouger, I'll guess we'll see if this is finally a negator that stands up to goyf.

[Raptor]

Dang, that's really interesting. Playing that card, I guess I would want to give up sinkhole for more discard, duress or maybe unmask. Just because the ld plan kind of encourages them to have a larger hand. Definitely better than ashenmoore gouger, I'll guess we'll see if this is finally a negator that stands up to goyf.

Interesting, I'm wondering if I would still be running the tombstalker, would it be worth it ?

But this seems a responce to force of will as : You want to counter me a spell other then me ? 2 more damage in your face.

[Mordel]

Nyxathid can't be played on the first turn really and doesn't have any sort of evasion. Next.

[DalkonCledwin]

Nyxathid can't be played on the first turn really and doesn't have any sort of evasion. Next.

does it really need evasion? Some of us have been running Ashenmoor Gouger in place of Phyrexian Negator... how does that exactly have Evasion? Anyways, why would you want to play it on the first turn? The card rewards you for playing it later in the game, especially after you have played a bit of disruption against their hand. I think this card is really really good.

[3duece]

I think he's the first reason to play unmask in this deck since hatred was good. He basically tacks a life penalty onto anything your opponent does. And yes, I would still play tombstalker. I'm not going to say this guy is great until I actually get to play it, but I'm pretty excited about it. I also like that he punishes the hell out of dragon stompy and aggroloam.

[DalkonCledwin]

I also like that he punishes the hell out of dragon stompy and aggroloam.

that is definitely an added bonus, isn't it :D This card may actually be a reason for me to buy conflux cards :D

[Hummingbird TG]

My problem with the card is that your opponent can stockpile lands in hand... which Thoughtseize, Duress, and Unmask, happen to be unable to take. I'm tempted to play a discard effect that actually can discard lands, for this purpose. Blightning is tempting, but rapes your curve...Gerrard's Verdict maybe?

[Citrus-God]

The other problem I have with this is the implication that this is only a good "late game" card. Seriously... that's so not Sui Black.

Sui Black has nothing but early game cards. This is why it's threat base is full of threats that are good early game and late game. This is why it runs disruption, so that it's threats can immediately come out and bash face while the opponent is disrupted by discard and LD while the opponent's game state looks awkward and weird. If you're planning on running this just to be a "late game" card, then you sir are building Sui Black badly. Suicide Black is a deck that tends to mulligan aggressively if it doesnt have a mix of disruption and threats. This card forces you to mulligan simply because it's a bad threat. If this were a Negator, it can come off a Ritual first turn and thrash the opponent as you follow up with a Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole, Wasteland and/or Thoughtseize next turn.

Tombstalker doesn't count if you run fetchlands; he actually comes into play an evasive and cheap 5/5 beast. The difference between Tombstalker and that card is that after a couple turns worth of disruption and fetchland cracking, you can actually play him and he will literally win the game for you. Nyxathid because it might not come into play as strong on Turn 3. What if you open with Thoughtseize, Sinkhole, Wasteland? I would much rather have Tombstalker, because when it comes out, Turn 3 is actually decent timing and doesnt have to force me to mulligan as much.