Do you have a general preference as to what those remaining six cards should be, between the Maulers, Elementals, Spheres, Moons, and Jittes, in a random metagame? I assume it would be 4 Maulers and 1 Jitte and Moon each, but, I'm not completely certain.Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Your lock pieces are supposed to create figurative/relative card advantage. If you drop that Trinisphere and then your beater, Force of Will is not so hot. If you drop Chalice of the Void for one and then your beater, Swords to Plowshares is not so hot. Also, against a lot of decks that do run those cards (FoW/StP), Moon effects are pretty br00tul.
This is why Dragon Stompy has a bad reputation for losing to jank (lock pieces become useless) and flaming out (sometimes mulligans are not enough). Dragon Stompy rarely wins by the skin of its teeth like a lot of control decks do. You will usually know whether or not you are going to win within a few turns.
Against decks with a way around that, say vindicate instead of StP. Then your rush will be stopped, sure, u might have swung two times, but the all-in was stopped. This deck is risky business.
That's the risk you assume by playing a deck that is capable of dealing 20+ points of damage in one combat phase.
I will be playing in a tournament next weekend and wanted to toss a list off you guys with a few changes from the usual lists. Depending on the decks I see next week I may or may not play stompy, but if I do, this is the list I intend to run:
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Arc Slogger
4 Taurean Mauler
4 Magus of The moon
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Blood Moon
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Gathan Raider
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Seething Song
4 Chalice of the void
SB:
2 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
4 Pyrokinesis
2 Powder keg
4 Pithing Needle
vexing shusher is questionable but I have liked having a 2 drop creature and also allows us to play pithing needle through chalice game 2/3. the jittes may become 2 trinispheres, or shusher #3 and moon #3 depending on metagame.
Thoughts??
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Well, at least we smell better
umm... i am interested in the idea of siding in powder keg. did you tested? How it has proven?
Powder Keg has been around and not around in sideboards like, forever. Possibly two forevers. I personally think it's pretty good but just narrowly bad enough to not make the cut. That said, if you're going to run it, run it exactly like Bruenor's doing it: By cutting the graveyard hate slots for it.
Vexing Shusher is kind of meh. Sure, it makes shit uncounterable, but it does it for a red mana, which is kind of annoying, as it makes you need a second red open for shit. It also costs double red, an annoying curve unless you have a moon down. That said, it's really neat that you can drop it straight through a Chalice for 2. I seriously doubt he's worth it, though.
keg has proven worthwhile at least in my metagame.... Elspeth tokens, manlands, engineered explosives(if you manage to get the timing right), bridge from below tokens, empty the warrens tokens, tarmogoyf. All these are quite plentiful where I play, If I could run four I would, but that would be overkill.
Shusher's cost has yet to be a hinderance to me, he can come into play off land/mox and make a turn 2 moon uncounterable if you drop a 2-land. Also makes chalice at 1 uncounterable turn 2 and turn 2 jitte. He is worth the 2 slot in my opinion at the moment. Tournament play will prove it to me, but in testing he is great... Even if you dont leave a mana open on board, with an SSG he makes Force of Will an overcosted daze. Opponents will need to keep that in mind. And again, getting a pithing needle into play with chalice @1 out is another HUGE bonus to shusher. I often find myself in a position against landstill where I want to drop both and cant. Shusher makes it possible to drop both. More than likely although I love jitte in here, if I see a ton of landstill I will run -2 jitte +1 Moon +1 shusher. That opens another slot in my board for trini #4 or keg #3.
Last edited by Joe_C; 01-16-2009 at 01:26 PM.
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Rakka Mar 2RR
Legendary Creature - Human Shaman
Haste
R, tap: Put a 3/1 red Elemental
creature token into play.
2/2
Not a big powerful attacker, but an effect that will overwhelm the opponent in 2-3 turns. Which doesn't exactly fit the strategy of this deck, but it's a powerful effect, and with the 3cc-slot already incorporating 3Sphere and the Moon effects, maybe this could replace the Sulfur Elemental/Mauler slots.
georgjorgeGeistreich sind schon die anderen.
If the tokens had haste too, I'd like it. But as it stands, it's effectively a 2RRR drop (2RR + eot R activation), I don't think this'll make the cut. I know I won't be moving my Maulers out for this guy.
The ability is nice but, the RR in the cost is probably the biggest killer. It puts it in the realm to be played instead of Slogger or Dragon...
Dragon flies+pumps and is our only answer to Moat.
Slogger shoots... who doesn't like guns?
Yes, what I am about to say is blasphemy, absolutely unthinkable.
But lets face it, this deck is too damn inconsistent, it loses to itself way too often. We have got to try something.
The wins come on the backs of the brokenness of Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon. But something about the deck just feels off.
Does anyone here think that one possible route to go in less thresh dominated metas would be to move the Chalices and Trinispheres to the sideboard and play maindeck burn or more threats alongside your current threats.
Burn makes sure you can....
a.) imprint a burn spell on the Chrome Mox rather than a threat. This is actually pretty key. I frequently have to decide which threat to equp to Chrome Mox.
b.) take out chump blockers which is a problem for this deck.
c.) do damage to the dome to win the game a turn or two faster.
d.) your opponent won't know to side in artifact destruction game two if you opt to bring the chalices back in.
If you take out the lock pieces, then you open yourself up to more 2-, 3-, and 4-for-1's. You might as well play Burn or Sligh with Moon effects. Try testing it, but it seems worse than Dragon Stompy, Burn or Sligh.
I'd just take out the Mauler/Elemental slot and play Pyrokinesis maindeck (instead of sideboard). You just have to have 1-2 really good combat phases to win the game, and Pyrokinesis (a.) lets you do it for free, and (b.) helps you achieve hellbent.
Pyrokinesis maindeck is a BAD idea.
You realize that Pyrokinesis can only hit creatures right?
If it could hit players too, it would be worth it. But as is, I would never maindeck it.
I think I would rather play Browbeat/Flames of the Blood Hand/Something else if I wanted burn maindeck and didn't want to cut Chalice for Bolt effects.
Damage to the dome in this deck is a wasted slot 99% of the time. Seriously. Plus, you already have it via Slogger. Pyrokinesis does what you are wanting. Takes out chump blockers and pitches to Mox instead of a threat. Who cares if they bring in artifact hate. Damage to the dome is stupid. It may come in handy 1 game out of 100, but more than that a.) slogger fills that slot nicely and b.) you would always rather see disruption, another red source, or another threat over 3-5 to the dome.
I think Pyrokinesis is something to be tested. It's pretty good for what it's needed for. The only thing it doesn't do is win a game against ANT//TES that goes off turn one on the play. Honestly, what else is needed? Fireblast could possibly be tested instead, but it's worse against hordes of critters (aka goblins). It can make an EtW worse, but no one plays that card any more anyway, plus you have Moons, Chalices and Trinis to help with that anyway.
Schadenfreude is the most genuine kind of joy, since it doesn't include even a drop of envy.Why can't we just admit it?
Pyrokinesis hit only creatures.
There is no reason to even think of adding it main unless your going to an all agro field. Perhaps we should look at what's in the deck and see if that's worth adjusting/dropping.
Last edited by damionblackgear; 01-22-2009 at 09:57 AM. Reason: To make longer
I had been playing Pyrokinesis maindecked, and it isn't bad at all. But I think that 4 more threats are more useful against more matchups, and so I finally sideboarded it. It can ruin your hellbent also, so it's better used when its pros are a lot more than its cons, in my opinion.
For the Pyroclasm over Pyrokinesis lovers: have you tried Cave-In? It is a really nice bridge between them, sorcery speed, but free and withless mana than Pyrokinesis hardcast, damaging players as well.
I agree. And not only do "you open yourself up to more 2-, 3-, and 4-for-1's",as you say, but you also make the opponent draw dead cards (uncastable spells or neutralized non-basic lands) with the lock pieces, which makes up for the no draw/search capacity of this deck.
Nothing is "blasphemy" as long as you rationalize just a little bit. Even Phantom had thought about a Sloggerless list many pages ago, I think.
I don't know about a non Thresh metagame but some of the best cards in this game cost 1 mana. And they always keep comin'. Check out Path to Exile and Bloodhall Ooze for instance: http://mtgsalvation.com/conflux-spoiler.html#3103 They could have a very good potential. Chalice@1 is power in Legacy.
a.) One less threat (imprinted) is more important there, if it helps cancel 2 or more of the opponents' threats, search cards, etc. by allowing you to cast a Chalice or Trinisphere turn (1 or 2).
b.+c.) Sloggers and Jitte kill chumps, while Dragons evade them if they don't fly. Most of our other creatures kill a chump blocker each turn without dying, if they are allowed to attack or block.
Pyrokinesis in the SB also deals with them. I bet you don't like it because it makes you ditch a red card(a threat more likely) but it usually destroys two or more of the opponents cards too, with no cost, instant speed. That allows our fatsos to be a good investment, and deal fast damage to the dome.
You will be possibly one,two or more turns slower if you allow the other player to play all those cards that would be otherwise disabled by Chalice/Trini against this non-card advantage deck.
I would like to run Arc Mage for instance: http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/Card...aspx?&id=21343 , he's a red threat, has the right cost, can split/deal 2 direct dmg to chumps n dome as you say and he can enable hellbent. But what would he replace?? And would you rather play his ability or one of your Sloggers/RPDs/their abilities when you have spare mana? (I will still try him when I have the chance though..)
d.) With that I agree. I like decks that play quite differently when you use the SB.
Serum Power had been discussed, I don't know if it was tested a lot. And if, only if, there was a way to play Burning Wish with tools in the SB!..
Olivier Ruel was running 4 kegs SB. But paired with all Pyrokinesis, Sloggers n Jitte against tokens/creatures, Moons against manlands, I'd prefer Shattering spree against artifacts, not keg. Anyway, have unmorhed your raiders when you use it.
@ Tacosnape: I won't argue about Akroma and SoLS now because probably you know better by having the deck tested more than I have. But could you please explain a little more why An-Zerrin Ruins sucks? Let's SB the Maulers and put 1 A-Z Ruins AND creature hate, against goblins, creature types generally, tokens, or the most annoying creatures in the opponent's deck. If it comes, it will come when we have the mana, and if it does it will shut off half of their army.
I don't intend to run random 1-ofs, I want to run some different 1-ofs that also team up effectively in a different way between them against different decks, and create more card answers in the SB for the bad match-ups, without ruining the good more than just a little. I will let you know when I have something more certain in mind.
I couldn't have responded any better.
___________________
I don't think maindeck direct damage is really needed in the meta Dragon Stompy would most likely be played in, but rather, we need a new creature to be printed that's just like, "whoa". Or a new utility artifact spell. I don't think direct damage is the answer people are looking for.
I'm starting to think that the correct number of sloggers in this deck is actually 3. 3 is enough that you will be able to see either a slogger or a pit dragon every game, but lowers the chances of getting them in multiples (which sucks when you have to seething song one out), and allows you to play what you draw each turn, which is important when you have to topdeck to stay hellbent turn after turn. I would say with the extra slot, the moon count should be brought up to 7 (if not there already), trinisphere up to 3 (it seems way to good in this meta to not mainboard), or add the 4th 3cc threat of choice (whether it is sulfur elemental or taurean mauler).
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