[Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm

[Corwin]

Ok then, I'm going to test this change.
Another question, how do you deal against control/control aggro decks? I usually play with a friend that has a Merfolk, and without sideboarding it looks almost impossible to beat him. I guess the right SBing would be +3 pyroblast and +2 vexing shushers, what kind of matchup do you think this deck has against, let's say T hold and Merfolk post side?

[Joe_C]

Ive been so underwhelmed with Shusher. I know Bryant swears by it, but I have not had them work out for me yet

[GreenOne]

Ive been so underwhelmed with Shusher. I know Bryant swears by it, but I have not had them work out for me yet

Well, just take them out for whatever works for you. If they're working for Bryant he's right in running them, but this doesn't mean you have to run them too. You have lots of valuable options in their place:
- More Blasts
- More Duresses
- More Xantid Swarms
- Echoing Truth, Wipe Away or Krosan Grip

[Bryant Cook]

I don't even like my sideboard at the moment. Here it is...
SB:1 Diminishing Returns
SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:1 Empty the Warrens
SB:1 Grapeshot
SB:1 Wipeaway
SB:2 Pyroblast
SB:2 Vexing Shusher
SB:2 Xantid Swarm
SB:3 Shattering Spree

I want a Duress in there as a Wish Target and no idea where to put it. I may cut Shusher or Swarm for a Duress and a 3rd blast. I could go down to 2 Shattering spree, one as a Wish target and the other as a mystical target? I only ever board in 2. The probability of drawing 1 of 2 isn't much higher.

[Joe_C]

Bryant,

Have you tried echoing ruin as a wish target? It would be beneficial against stax type decks, but anything with counters shattering spree is better.

My board at the moment:

4 Pyroblast
2 Duress
3 Shattering Spree
1 Grapeshot
1 Tendrils of agony
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Empty The Warrens
1 Wipeaway

I think duress and blast+ chants are enough to combat blue, swarm just hasnt done it for me, counterbalance is our biggest concern and more blasts and duress our are cheapest answers to that

[GreenOne]

I don't even like my sideboard at the moment. Here it is...
SB:1 Diminishing Returns
SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:1 Empty the Warrens
SB:1 Grapeshot
SB:1 Wipeaway
SB:2 Pyroblast
SB:2 Vexing Shusher
SB:2 Xantid Swarm
SB:3 Shattering Spree

I want a Duress in there as a Wish Target and no idea where to put it. I may cut Shusher or Swarm for a Duress and a 3rd blast.

Let's take a look at how we can approach the other decks.
Here's how I divide them, from the easiest to the worst matchup:
1) Byes: something we simply have to goldfish, like Aggro decks
2) Hand/Land disruption: Something with some amount of discard, like the Rock, Aggro Loam, Eva Green, etc.
3) Permanent-based disruption: Stax, Dragon Stompy
4) Counter decks, packing the standard FoW+Daze, and maybe Stifle or Spell Snare: Tempo Thresh, Landstill
5) Counter + Counterbalance decks: Dreadstill, ITF

Aside from the obvious WishBoard (Tendrils, ETW, Returns, Grapeshot, IGG, Shattering Spree) we have 9 slots to work with. Our possible SB cards are designed to work better against one type of hate than against another.
Here's our SB choices:
a) Cards that work well against counter suites. In order: Orim's Chant, Xantid Swarm, Shusher, Duress, Pyroblast
b) Cards that work well against land/hand Disruption. In order: Duress, Orim's Chant.
c) Cards that work well against artifact based hate. In order: Spree, Wipe Away, Duress, Chain of vapor.
d) Cards that work well against other permanent based hate. In order: Chain of Vapor, Wipe Away, Duress, Pyroblast.

A lot of our SB slots are actually devoted to a) : 2 Pyroblast, 2 Shusher, 2 Swarm = 6 out of 9 slots.

An important thing to notice is that our deck functions worse and worse, the more cards we're siding in, as SB cards don't help with the combo. Instead of drawing mana, cantrips, bombs, we draw in protection spells post SB, and our Ad Nauseams and Diminishing Returns are significantly worse.

So we are unlikely to side a huge amount of cards in any given matchup, otherwise our combo would be too compromised.

That said, we have to work on a SB plan for any given matchup:

Against 1) decks:
They're usually siding in discard or permanent based hate, so duress and bounce are the best cards here. We don't want to dilute the deck cause their clock is high even post SB, but we don't want to lose to a single piece of hate.

This is how I would ideally side: +2 Duress, +0/2 Spree, -2/4 Chant

Against 2) decks:
They're usually siding discard/extirpate, or permanent based hate, so duress and bounce are the best cards here. If they side Chalice, then Shattering Spree can complement the bounce.

This is how I would ideally side: +2 Duress, +0/2 Spree, -2/4 Chant

Against 3) decks:
They're usually siding more artifact permanent based hate, so duress and spree are the best cards here.

This is how I would ideally side: +2 Duress, +2 Shattering Spree, +1 Wipe Away -4 Chant -1 Something

Against 4) decks:
Those decks are siding just a few cards, usually BEBs and permanent based hate (magi or halo). The speed of those deck is not blazingly fast.

This is how I would ideally side if they bring in only more counterspells:
-2 Cabal Ritual, -1 Infernal, -1 Chain of vapor +4 Swarm
This is how I would ideally side if they bring in meddling magi:
-2 Cabal Ritual, -1 Infernal, -1 Chain of vapor -2 Duress +3 Swarm, +3 Pyroblast
This is how I would ideally side if they bring in nonblue,noncreature hate:
-2 Cabal Ritual, -1 Infernal, -1 Chain of vapor +4 Swarm

Against 5) decks:
They usually don't side nothing, or maybe a little number of permanent based hate or BEBs.

This is how I would ideally side against them:
-2 Cabal Ritual, -2 Infernal, -1 Chain of vapor, -2 something else, +2 Shusher, +2 Duress, +2/3 Pyroblast, +0/1 Wipe Away.

Here's the total card we'd ideally want in the sb:
2 Duress, 2 Spree, 1 Wipe Away, 4 Swarm, 3 Pyroblast, 2 Shusher.

We don't want to have too many or too little SB spaces devoted to a single matchup. So we start filling our 9 slots with:
2 Duress, 2 Spree: It's some minimal sb choices just to cover matchups 1), 2) and 3). Duress can even get sided in against 5), and Duress #1 is also a solid wish target.
4-5 Between Pyroblast and Swarm: They're the better cards working against 4) and half the plan of 5). Pyroblasts are better against CB and Magi, Swarm are better against Counters.
0-1 Wipe Away or Shusher: something that works against CB, if you don't feel comfortable with Pyroblasts.



Heres the final SB plan and total disruption package post SB:
2 Duress, 2 Shattering Spree, 3 Swarm, 2 Pyroblast

1) 4 Duress, 2 Spree/Chant
2) 4 Duress, 2 Spree/Chant
3) 4 Duress, 2 Spree
4) 4 Chant, 3 Swarm, 3 Duress, 0/2 Pyroblast
5) 4 Chant, 2/3 Swarm, 3/4 Duress, 2 Pyroblast

To end it, we have a SB that is covering all the matchups, siding a moderate amount of cards against already good matchups, and with the possibility of heavy siding against our worst matchups: 4) and 5).
After all, the deck never wants more than 12 protection spells, cause it still want to combo out quite fast.

[GreenOne]

Bryant,

Have you tried echoing ruin as a wish target? It would be beneficial against stax type decks, but anything with counters shattering spree is better.

My board at the moment:

4 Pyroblast
2 Duress
3 Shattering Spree
1 Grapeshot
1 Tendrils of agony
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Empty The Warrens
1 Wipeaway

I think duress and blast+ chants are enough to combat blue, swarm just hasnt done it for me, counterbalance is our biggest concern and more blasts and duress our are cheapest answers to that

Looks like your SB strategy follows my reasoning, so maybe I did not just say shit

Echoing Ruin is just worse than Spree, since the artifacts we want to deastroy are, usually, Chalice and Trinisphere.

Shattering Spree works against chalice @1 (the replicated copies are not countered). Against Trinisphere you can replicate till you reach 3 casting cost, so you basically break up to 3 artifacts spending RRR in the process even if they have different names.
Seems like the only case Echoing Ruin is better is when there's a Chalice@0 and a Chalice@1 in play. This is the only case that sees Ruin cost 2 mana and Spree costing 3.

Sry for double post.

[Bryant Cook]

I'm back at college, which means I have no testing until the GP. Unless it's on mws... this is what I'm looking at right now.

SB:1 Diminishing Returns
SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:1 Empty the Warrens
SB:1 Grapeshot
SB:1 Wipeaway
SB:3 Pyroblast
SB:1 Duress
SB:2 Xantid Swarm / Shusher (I'm leaning more towards Xantid, I think)
SB:3 Shattering Spree

I'll have to find someone to be my mws bitch when I'm free tomorrow.

[Raindown]

When you guys encounter control (counterspells and the like) do you just try and snake out one counterspell and then attempt to win or try to setup a defense to counters like shusher? I mean do you switch into a longer game strategy or keep up the attempted quick win?

[kensook]

Would you keep one duress in the SB as a wish target or would you rather want all of them boarded in?

[GreenOne]

When you guys encounter control (counterspells and the like) do you just try and snake out one counterspell and then attempt to win or try to setup a defense to counters like shusher? I mean do you switch into a longer game strategy or keep up the attempted quick win?

I usually look at my hand and then decide. If I got some protection that slows down my game by 1 turn I usually play it (Swarm or Duress). If I need only 1 more turn/mana to have a protected win (Pyroblast or chant) then I wait.
I always combo unprotected turn 1 on the play if I can. I combo turn 2 unprotected if I have to wait 2 or more turns to build a protection wall and the opponent posed some threat.
I tend to go for it more if I know the opponent can land a counterbalance.

Those are the general rules I follow, but obviously, I evaluate case by case.

Would you keep one duress in the SB as a wish target or would you rather want all of them boarded in?

I guess it depends on the matchup. You don't need a wishable duress against discard and fast decks (aggro, tempo decks). You may want it against control decks.

[Pulp_Fiction]

One card I have been playing around with in the SB is Pact of Negation. Originally I just brushed the card off as garbage, but lately someone in my meta is running it in ANT and its pretty fucking sick. However, I am not sure how much I like it. This is the SB I run and I am very satisfied:

1x Diminishing Returns
1x IGG
1x Tendrils
1x EtW
1x Grapeshot
3x Pyroblast
3x Xantid Swarm
2x Slaughter Pact
2x Shattering Spree

I LOVE Slaughter Pact. Gaddock Teeg and True Believer randomly show up in my meta in mass. It is great having that in the board. Towards a more random meta, the only change I would do to the SB is -2 Slaughter Pact and play something like +2 Krosan Grip or Wipe Away. Pact of Negation has its uses, but the card is pointless against literally everything but opposing Chants and blue control that doesn't have Counterbalance so that should be out. 2x Wipe Away seems like the right call for a big tournament like the GP. Since the deck not runs Mystical Tutors you could probably get away with 1x Wipe Away and 1x Rebuild/Recall if you wanted too. Xantid Swarm also seems like the right call since most blue control decks are running Blasts to deal with Shusher, I also have had him Pithing Needled a few times and that was not pleasant. With Swarm they have to leave in their Swords to Plowshares (if playing) to deal with it, thus giving them more dead draws later on.

[b4r0n]

Wouldn't Krosan Grip be a better Mystical target than Wipe Away? Other than Teeg and Mage, all the things you'd want to bounce with Wipe Away are artifacts or enchantments. It seems better to be able to remove hate permanently rather than having to bounce it immediately prior to going off. Plus, you can still deal with Teeg and Mage via Mystical for Burning Wish for Grapeshot.

I really like the idea of 2 Duress in the board. I'm thinking that it might be worth going down to 2 Pyroblasts to make room for the second Duress. Duress and Pyroblast serve a similar purpose (pre-empting CB, dealing with countermagic), but Duress can also deal with other hate (Chant, discard). Plus, it gives you valuable information about whether you can go off or not.

Also, I'm still torn between Xantid and Shusher. I was leaning towards Xantid for a while, but now I'm starting to favor Shusher. Xantid is much better before Counterbalance, but Duress/Pyroblast already fill a similar role. Shusher lets you win after a Counterbalance has resolved, despite being a bit mana-intensive.

[kensook]

The reason we play Wipe Away over Krosan Grip is because Wipe Away can get out of your hand in situations where you need the hellbent for IT.

[GreenOne]

The reason we play Wipe Away over Krosan Grip is because Wipe Away can get out of your hand in situations where you need the hellbent for IT.

Really?
Wipe away is a 1of, so drawing it when not tutoring it does not come that often, to be more precise, 15% chances of drawing it by turn 3.
Of this 15% there will be times where you need it, since you sided it in.
Of the times you don't need it, you might not have an Infernal Tutor, some copies got sided out in some matchups.
Of the times you have both, you might have LED to go hellbent.
If you don't you might have a Brainstorm to get rid of it, or you might just discard it when you have 8 cards in hand.

It's a situation that doesn't seem to happen that often.

[Dark_Cynic87]

Wipe Away also hits all bears, whereas K. Grip only hits Cannonist.

[Joe_C]

Wipe Away also hits all bears, whereas K. Grip only hits Cannonist.

also if in your hand imprints on mox for

we would never use green, so its absolutely dead in your opening hand, where wipe away would not be.

[GreenOne]

Wipe Away also hits all bears, whereas K. Grip only hits Cannonist.

Yeah, this is the real reason.
But, anyway, I'm usually mysticaling for Pyroblast if the opponent played a Mage, and if the opponent played a Gaddock he can't play FoW, so why not tutoring for Chain of Vapor?
There are no other played bears afaik (True Believer, really?), so Krosan Grip could be a wise choice.

[Bryant Cook]

Yeah, this is the real reason.
But, anyway, I'm usually mysticaling for Pyroblast if the opponent played a Mage, and if the opponent played a Gaddock he can't play FoW, so why not tutoring for Chain of Vapor?
There are no other played bears afaik (True Believer, really?), so Krosan Grip could be a wise choice.

I think the pros towards Wipeway are much greater than Grip. Being able to bounce Gaddeck Teeg matters, trust me. I'm not aware of your metagame; but in the northeast of the US, people play Teeg. Wipeaway also bounces Chant mana in the storm/survival match-ups.

[GreenOne]

I think the pros towards Wipeway are much greater than Grip. Being able to bounce Gaddeck Teeg matters, trust me. I'm not aware of your metagame; but in the northeast of the US, people play Teeg.

Yeah, Teeg gets played here too, but mainly by Rock/Zoo/Survival and everything without counters, so I just rely on chain of vapor. No need to side Wipe Away in.

Wipeaway also bounces Chant mana in the storm/survival match-ups.

Are you seriously siding in Wipe Away against combo?
And vs survival, If they don't play Chalice too, Chain of Vapor does the job nicely.