Have you guys thought about cutting Watchwolfs for Treetop Villages? Betters your mana base without dropping the threat density (it may slow you down a little in some games).
Don't think it's a good choice.Originally Posted by waSP
You can only play one land a turn, it comes into play tapped and takes away 2 mana to activate wich you could use for other (instant or permanent) threats.
I can understand how it shifts how you play the deck a little and that would be hard to adapt to on a purely intellectual level (without having played the deck extensively).
In any case, your curve is really imbalanced, so the CIPT issue won't come up too much. You have to remember that you're replacing a non-land card with a land, so it can just be the 3rd or 4th turn land drop you're missing.
Other than Cursed Scroll, you don't need tons and tons of mana after turn 3 or 4. If you think you do (you don't), let me suggest Radha, Heir to Keld.
I just dont get why you would cut a nice 3/3 critter for something that slows the deck down and costs mana to even use.
I am one of those guys that thinks RGW zoo is supposed to be fast.
And offcourse I don't need tons of mana, 2 lands in play shoudl be enough for the deck to rock.
Just checked on www.deckcheck.net, not one Treetop Village seen there in the played zoo decks.
Not that deckcheck is the holy grail, but it says alot about Treetop Village.
I found 70 decklists running Villages. Here's a beatz list from a couple months ago: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22453
Looks like his meta had a lot of land destruction.
Watchwolf hurts your curve more than Treetop Village (especially when it's the weakest creature in your deck--slow, not big enough, susceptible to mass removal).
Please note, that that deck is R/G only, and that this is the RGW Zoo thread.
And also note that, Treetop Village sucks balls in this deck.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
That's just a completely different deck?
I was pointing out his statement was blatantly untrue. The linked list is not a very good list for many other reasons.
R/G/W zoo only became better than R/G with the printing of Wild Nacatl (Wooly Thoctar didn't hurt, either).
Baileyarch:
In which matchups does Treetop Village "suck balls" in this deck?
This'll sound snooty, but really, a better knowledge of the history of your deck will give you a better sense of what is possible with it.
For one, it leaves you open to Wasteland. The tempo loss from just that alone is crippling.
You always want to make a turn 1 2/2 or 2/3 or 3/3.
And the fact that your land can be hit by a removal spell is just stupid. It doesn't help towards the required forest, plains, mountain for Kird Ape or Wild Nacatyl. You can't fetch it.
And it doesn't even help late game either, like Cursed Scroll.
Shit if those aren't reasons enough to run it then idk what else is. This is Zoo not Rock.
Maybe this will sound snooty, but saying i don't know my deck history to justify a bad card for a good deck just doesn't make sense.
But hey, once again, maybe i'm the asshole here
P.S.-This deck didn't become three colors because Thoctar or Nacatyl my friend. They are broken yes, but there is plenty of good other white combinations to add another color too.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
Yea. I agree. It is far too slow. Not to mention, Im fairly certain you cant equip a Jitte on a village. I could be wrong though, I havent ever played a man land deck enough to know.
Having your land come into play tapped is bad in this deck. Its bad in just about any competitive deck, especially one that thrives on tempo. Lets say for example you top deck it turn 3. Its your 4th land (a very nice land to have in play, while not crucial it helps). So you play it, its tapped. They top deck a wasteland and bam, its gone before you can use it. If that were any other land, you could have used it before it died. Trust me on this (I play against a lot of LD in my meta) it helps to be able to tap it first turn out. It keeps your critters coming even with what little land I can keep in play.
And for as long as Ive played Zoo, its been RGW. And it will most likely stay that way. Even back when Savannah Lions and Isamaru were the main threats, I had white in the list.
The deck that took 4th in that tournament (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22450) is a much, much, much better zoo build.
And look! No manlands...
@jimmerz213: Yeah i took a look at that list when i saw it get posted. It's very straightforward FireBlast, Lavamancer, goldfish Zoo-ish deck.
It reminds me of Goyf Sligh splash white. It runs alot of burn. And like i've always been afraid of PoP bc it would usually deal me like 8 damage.
The card just doesn't seem right for Zoo.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
You can equip jitte on a village, however at the end of turn it becomes unequipped. So yeah, if you have five lands in play its a good combination...Right.
I don't think price is right for zoo either. It just hurts you too much, while providing no room to remove something.
Thats what I figured. That really makes it a lot weaker than watchwolf right there. Jitte is a powerhouse.
One last point about Treetop Village. I'm not suggesting you replace lands you are already running with it. I'm suggesting you play 2 of them instead of Watchwolf (or some random creatures). So, when you play them, if they soak up a Wasteland or get Swordsed or removed some other way, you're protecting your other creatures or your mana base. Treetop Village will never make you miss a land drop. Saying that it makes your creature base vulnerable to Wasteland is your best criticism.
I think the difference in our reactions to cards is mostly in approach. I'm comfortable playing R/G/w as a permissionless aggro control deck. Sounds like you guys are trying to play it straight aggro with a few utility cards. The lists are similar but the strategy is probably very different.
I don't think Jitte is very good game 1 in a lot of matchups (I like it a lot out of the board). Either they will have a removal card (in which case Jitte costs 6 to have any impact) or Jitte will end up as just another piece of the clock (ramping creatures will make you faster). Rancor is much better in the typical case (faster, cheaper, supplies its own evasion).
But I'm going to shut up and let you guys have your aggro thread back.
Thank you, and please don't ever link me to some crappy decklist that is running Emperor Crocodile...ever again. This is not the source for lameacy. No Treetop. No Crocodiles. Just no.
Extended zoo usually run 4-5 color to play Dark confidant as a card to general card advantage, they also used to play Vindicate (which is a good removal against CB). Black also gives discards as an additional tool against combo deck.
Perhaps it has been discussed already, but i just wanted to say this :)
I have always liked Burning-Tree Shaman but I can't think of anything it is good against besides Top. Not saying it should be included just discussing the card.
Be fair now. He never recommended Crocodile. And Treetop isn't a bad card per se. It just doesn't fit this deck's play style at all, but a slower deck it would work in very well. So need to be so hard on the suggestion. I think the better question is, why would anyone ever opt to play Treetop Village instead of Nantuko Monastery in a deck that could support it.
P.S: No, manlands shouldn't be in this deck. I'm just wondering why someone would consider Treetop Village before Nantuko Monastry in the first place.
Ok the manland discussion dies in 3....2....1....
Ok so yeah. I played this deck at a local tournament the other night, and ending up going 2-3. I beat Survival and Dreadstill, only to lose to Dreadstill(Counterbalance) twice after that, and then Dredge.
The only modifications to my deck are -2 FoD, +2 Gaddock Teeg. My meta is heavy blue and when he resolved it REALLY helped.
I was just so pissed bc Counterbalance just BEATS this deck without Shusher. And that's how i lost 4 games in a row. I've been tinkering with some ways to work around Counterbalance, and all i can really think of is, A) Run Grip in the maindeck, which is clunky and SOMETIMES dead, or B) Run Shusher in the maindeck which is just a bear in some matchups.
This deck just needs a way to beat that two card combo...
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
Well, I would just run 4 Shusher and 3-4 Grip in the sideboard.
One maindeck option you left off is Tin-Street Holligan. It's not mana intensive but it takes out lots of artifacts, not just Top, but Dreadnoughts, stuff in affinity, Crucibles etc.
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