So where is this deck? (Natural Order)

[citanul]

In all seriousness, I feel like any deck with Progenitus needs a way to get it out of the hand because if you draw it all of a sudden you have 3-4 dead cards in deck. Outside of Brainstorm, how do you get rid of Prog once you draw him?

Wild Mongrel, discard it, gets reshuffled, problem solved. Not only that but the Mongrel is a green card as well so able to being sacced.

[jazzykat]

You could also survival it away...

[georgjorge]

Now wait a moment...I just realized that Dryad Arbor lets you run this card even without packing your deck full with creatures, so something like

8 green fetchlands
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Dryad Arbor

in a deck with cantripping should enable you to run Natural Order in a wide variety of decks, from Rock to blue-green Intuition control. Wow. Now it does remind me a bit of Tinker.

If needed, you can always add some Mongeese or Witness.

[Maveric78f]

4 BS
4 FoW
3 Intuition
4 CS
4 SS

4 Deed
1 LftL
3 Natural Order
1 Prog

4 Tarmo
3 Witness

25 lands

Yeah, that's a possibility. I just wonder to what extent it's better to have 3*NO + 1*prog instead of 4*Tombstalker.

[emidln]

Mongoose is particularly sexy in that it can be played in turns prior to Natural Order with a reasonable chance that it doesn't bite the dust before you can sac it. I'm not altogether convinced that the plan needs to take up more than 5-6 slots, and you can even sideboard it (particularly against Thresh's rough matchups like B/x mid-range decks (Rock, Survival) where the infinite removal is generally an issue)).

3-4 Mystical Tutor
1 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
0-1 Dryad Arbor (if you have green fetches, which you probably should)

Mystical Tutor is particularly sexy because it could find silver bullets like Krosan Grip to deal with Progenitus hate (CoP, Runed Halo) if you already have resolved Natural Order while being more useful with Counterbalance (flipped or tutoring or being used as a counter in response to the CB trigger) or paired with FoW.

[Maveric78f]

Mystical is a good idea in the sense that it raises the U-card count for Fow, and the Card disadvantage isn't probably that much an issue since you tutor NO when you are going to kill.

Mystical would help too to get the draw engine (FoF, LftL or intuition), so that, once more the CD is not that much a problem.

Consequently, counterbalance is probably better than deed (they are dyssynergic) and B can be echanged with W or a better mana base.

[Seriously]

Where the FUCK is this deck that is causing Natural Order to jump from a $2 card to a freakin $12 card?

yeah, I've seen it listed for well over $20 each now. its the same thing that happened with grindstone, glimpse of nature, personal tutor, strategic planning and flash.

its kind of sad when you think that grindstones used to be $5 a playset, then jumped to $100 a playset. glimpse of nature used to be $1 a playset then jumped to $40 a set. strategic planning was a $1 a playset then I saw them jump as high as $200 a set. its a bit insane.

as soon as something gets rumored to be popular or good, dealers raise their prices to total rape. I dont know what was worse, when gas was $4 a gallon or when cards jump in value many times over. you know some dealers just have stacks of natural order just sitting around somewhere. and the thing is, that even if the deck/card proves to be jank, prices on the card will still stay high for years anyways.

I just dont think its totally fair. sure, if an old card ends up having a new use, raise the price somewhat. but turning a $0.25 cent card into a $50 card, just seems like a shitty thing to do. seems like it keeps more players from having access to the card and hurts the game a little more. all over some greedy price gouge, doesnt seem that reasonable to me. dont come saying supply and demand either, as there were what, several hundred thousand copies atleast of most of these cards printed and most are sitting in dusty 5000 count boxes at the back of some shop somewhere. it went from most people not wanting them, to most people not being able to afford them.

it seems like the thing to do would be to constantly read over future spoilers looking for combos. then if you think you found something, buy up all of the old cards involved in it. then create some internet hype about it, to fuel the fire and then post the cards at outrageous prices on ebay. who cares if it ends up being jank or gold, atleast you've made a small fortune off of other players.

sorry, that just seems shady to me.

[Anusien]

yeah, I've seen it listed for well over $20 each now. its the same thing that happened with grindstone, glimpse of nature, personal tutor, strategic planning and flash.

its kind of sad when you think that grindstones used to be $5 a playset, then jumped to $100 a playset. glimpse of nature used to be $1 a playset then jumped to $40 a set. strategic planning was a $1 a playset then I saw them jump as high as $200 a set. its a bit insane.

as soon as something gets rumored to be popular or good, dealers raise their prices to total rape. I dont know what was worse, when gas was $4 a gallon or when cards jump in value many times over. you know some dealers just have stacks of natural order just sitting around somewhere. and the thing is, that even if the deck/card proves to be jank, prices on the card will still stay high for years anyways.

I just dont think its totally fair. sure, if an old card ends up having a new use, raise the price somewhat. but turning a $0.25 cent card into a $50 card, just seems like a shitty thing to do. seems like it keeps more players from having access to the card and hurts the game a little more. all over some greedy price gouge, doesnt seem that reasonable to me. dont come saying supply and demand either, as there were what, several hundred thousand copies atleast of most of these cards printed and most are sitting in dusty 5000 count boxes at the back of some shop somewhere. it went from most people not wanting them, to most people not being able to afford them.

it seems like the thing to do would be to constantly read over future spoilers looking for combos. then if you think you found something, buy up all of the old cards involved in it. then create some internet hype about it, to fuel the fire and then post the cards at outrageous prices on ebay. who cares if it ends up being jank or gold, atleast you've made a small fortune off of other players.

sorry, that just seems shady to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

If everybody sells the card that high, then that's the price. It's not because one person spiked it.

[SouthAlly]

Somewhere Jamie Wakefield is smiling.

[jmedina]

Pro Tip: Progenitus lets you Counterbalance Greater Gargadon. Tech!

In all seriousness, I feel like any deck with Progenitus needs a way to get it out of the hand because if you draw it all of a sudden you have 3-4 dead cards in deck. Outside of Brainstorm, how do you get rid of Prog once you draw him?

Also serious, the fact that Moat, Wrath and Apocalypse can now be balanced is not cool.

You could pitch it to a force and win with Tarmos and Nimbles :) I run 2 targets.. a Progen and a Emp Archangel, depending on the situation 1 may be better than the other :)

[Seriously]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

If everybody sells the card that high, then that's the price. It's not because one person spiked it.

yeah, but natural order isnt as rare as something like strategic planning. it was printed in visions and portal. there has to be a lot of them floating around somewhere, so its not like there isnt a large supply, even if there is a large demand.

why doesnt wizards reprint things like strategic planning, imperial recruiter, personal tutor or other hard to get cards that werent originally intended to be money cards ? its not like they would break formats or anthing. and I know its a collectible card game, but whats more important, helping out the collectors or the players. every last card cant be a collectors item.

on a side note. maybe I missed some along the way, but I cant think of any. but why dont they add some new cards to the core sets, instead of just taking popular cards from other sets and adding/reprinting them ?

[dahcmai]

I was thinking along the lines of this, though I have to admit I like that thresh deck.

I was going to try it out this saturday.

4 Chromatic Sphere
2 Progenitis
3 Living Wish
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Natural Order
4 Lions Eye Diamond
4 Innocent Blood
4 Dark Ritual
2 Nights Whisper
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Krosan Reclamation
2 Auriok Salvagers
3 Gamekeeper

1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Plains
2 Snow Covered Forest
2 Forest
3 Snow Covered Swamp
2 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
3 Windswept Heath



SB:
4 Tsunami
1 City of Brass
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Gamekeeper
1 Trinket Mage
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
1 Kjeldoran Dead
2 Darksteel Colossus
1 Auriok Salvagers
1 Dragon's Breath


I liked the idea of being able to go one of two routes, combo or beat down.

[Mordel]

I was thinking about it and what irks me about a the game-esque combo resurfacing is that I have to restructure all of my sideboards to basically be able to deal with a darkstell colossus all over again.

This inconvenience is compounded by the fact that the combo is fairly light as far as what you can integrate it into. I am not so much worried about dedicated combo-type decks that are basically built around getting one out as I am about the decks that have squeezed it into a sideboard or something.

Back to changing my sideboards around.