[OLD] UGr Threshold

[Waikiki]

top 4ed today with Thrash,

Matchups

Goblins 2-0
Mono green something 1-2
Goblins 2-0
Survival 2-0
Survival elves 2-1
Eva green Draw into T8 (won fun games 2-1)
Top8
Belcher 2-0
Recurring rock 1-2

I cut disrupt from the sb and didn't miss it all day thnx to the meta.

[Muradin]

What did you add in those open slots and what does your SB look like now in general? Would you also cut Disrupt in general or was it just a metagame decission?

[sauce]

disrupt sucks, i cut it as well.
reb/beb > disrupt

[Joon]

Did you guys test Divert in the BEB Slot? Against pretty much all decks against BEB would be good (Sligh stuff) Divert shines, too. You might argue that BEB is stronger against Decks like Dragon Stompy and Imperial Painter, but if you do so you have also to look at Diverts other area of application: Against Suicide-style decks and Team America it's also very useful.

At least in my metagame I like Divert better than BEB or Hydroblast.

[undone]

Disrupt is just bad. Divert is ok but I would rather have BEB in a random metagame because goblins + dragon stompy + imperial painter + moon effects > Burn + Discard. Discard beats you handidly unless you deny its lands (Eva green) or land a solid threat early and keep pressure up.

If you are concerned about decks packing red BEB is better but divert is better if you expect decks playing hymn

What does every one think of packing 2/3 SB burn cards they would be awsome for reach against recurring decks and decks with huge men we cant get by. I dont know what playable burn we dont already run though the ones at the top of the list would be

Price of progress

A tough contender as it automaticaly wins some matchups. otherwise unwinnable such as lands, the difficult aggro loam matchup, and landstill. Yes you take damage here but your the agressive deck in each of these matchups so its rarely an issue.

Any one else see price of progress as a strong blow out card for this SB as a 2 of all it takes is 1 late game to automaticaly win the game against things like lands, landstill and aggro loam (seriously it turns 43 from a near auto loss to a near auto win..)

[sauce]

Disrupt is just bad. Divert is ok but I would rather have BEB in a random metagame because goblins + dragon stompy + imperial painter + moon effects > Burn + Discard. Discard beats you handidly unless you deny its lands (Eva green) or land a solid threat early and keep pressure up.

If you are concerned about decks packing red BEB is better but divert is better if you expect decks playing hymn

What does every one think of packing 2/3 SB burn cards they would be awsome for reach against recurring decks and decks with huge men we cant get by. I dont know what playable burn we dont already run though the ones at the top of the list would be

Price of progress

A tough contender as it automaticaly wins some matchups. otherwise unwinnable such as lands, the difficult aggro loam matchup, and landstill. Yes you take damage here but your the agressive deck in each of these matchups so its rarely an issue.

Any one else see price of progress as a strong blow out card for this SB as a 2 of all it takes is 1 late game to automaticaly win the game against things like lands, landstill and aggro loam (seriously it turns 43 from a near auto loss to a near auto win..)

i considered 1 spitebellows in the sb, but its not necessary.
i rather just wipeaway/rushing river the tombstalker/terrawhore/crusher.. also you can just bring in beb's vs loam and crush their hopes & dreams.

[Waikiki]

My sb was:

4 submerge
3 pyroclasm
4 pyroblast
3 krosan grip
1 life from the loam (random filler)

[MULocke]

i considered 1 spitebellows in the sb, but its not necessary.
i rather just wipeaway/rushing river the tombstalker/terrawhore/crusher.. also you can just bring in beb's vs loam and crush their hopes & dreams.

Submerge. It's awesome.

Well, I decided to give disrupt another try at my gpt, but I never got a matchup where I would want them partially because there was no combo, and partially because REB is just better. I'm gonna cut it for more relevant slots like threads and grips for next week.

Oh yeah, and I won the byes at that gpt :P.

[Shriekmaw]

From my experience disrupt seems the weakest card in the sb to me. What is your boarding plan with it? what do you take out?

The main application for disrupt is against combo/control decks. It's hard to give an exact breakdown on what I would take out depending on the type of deck your playing against. Even against threshold decks it varies so much depending if its a tempo version or one that plays counterbalance.

The general rule is to take cards out that will have the least benefit. The first cards I always look at are the 2 bounce spells and the 4 fire/ice.

The best application is against the combo decks out there where having an extra 4 daze effects are very good.

If you find something better to play in that spot then go ahead. I just found the card to be very helpful in the matchups I play against.

[sauce]

The main application for disrupt is against combo/control decks. It's hard to give an exact breakdown on what I would take out depending on the type of deck your playing against. Even against threshold decks it varies so much depending if its a tempo version or one that plays counterbalance.

The general rule is to take cards out that will have the least benefit. The first cards I always look at are the 2 bounce spells and the 4 fire/ice.

The best application is against the combo decks out there where having an extra 4 daze effects are very good.

If you find something better to play in that spot then go ahead. I just found the card to be very helpful in the matchups I play against.

red elemental blasts are always more relevant for 1 mana than disrupt...
against combo (ANT) its great too since their stupid mystical tutor/ponder/brainstorm all get denied via REB giving you enough time to get a goyf/goose in the red zone and force them to go off w/o a perfect hand or lose.

i dunno, submerge seems so situational, and it only helps against a few creatures which can be either denied from ever coming in via relic or shrunk to manageable sizes.

we got 2 main deck bounce spells already.
i rather run 3 relic + 1 ee in the board instead of 4 submerge.
this way im not assed out vs dredge/loam/landstill.

[Waikiki]

The main application for disrupt is against combo/control decks. It's hard to give an exact breakdown on what I would take out depending on the type of deck your playing against. Even against threshold decks it varies so much depending if its a tempo version or one that plays counterbalance.

The general rule is to take cards out that will have the least benefit. The first cards I always look at are the 2 bounce spells and the 4 fire/ice.

The best application is against the combo decks out there where having an extra 4 daze effects are very good.

If you find something better to play in that spot then go ahead. I just found the card to be very helpful in the matchups I play against.

I do found the power of disrupt and i'll always bring them in my binder. I was wondering on the board plan but it sounds you generally board the same way as I do. The meta I played in last sunday was combo light and almost no control I loved it.

[MULocke]

[Economics]
The point of disrupt is not about just how good it is, or its "general utility." The question is about its "marginal utility", or how useful it is compared to everything else you could be using. Yes, it is nice to have in the combo matchups, but is it really better to devote four slots solely to the combo matchup when those slots could be better put to use elsewhere? Seeing as reb is still managable against combo, why do we cut off four slots of our already crammed sb? Their marginal utility is low because of the number of matchups they are useful in as well as how useful they are in those matchups. As for control, reb is much, much better against blue control and other control decks tend to play a lot of land to cast their expensive spells (making extra dazes weak). Low marginal utility means they get cut from my sb so my other matchups can get better.
[/Economics]

Also, test submerge if you think it's weak. I did as well at first, but I tested it and now I understand. It might even be better against loam than relic.

[sauce]

[Economics]
The point of disrupt is not about just how good it is, or its "general utility." The question is about its "marginal utility", or how useful it is compared to everything else you could be using. Yes, it is nice to have in the combo matchups, but is it really better to devote four slots solely to the combo matchup when those slots could be better put to use elsewhere? Seeing as reb is still managable against combo, why do we cut off four slots of our already crammed sb? Their marginal utility is low because of the number of matchups they are useful in as well as how useful they are in those matchups. As for control, reb is much, much better against blue control and other control decks tend to play a lot of land to cast their expensive spells (making extra dazes weak). Low marginal utility means they get cut from my sb so my other matchups can get better.
[/Economics]

Also, test submerge if you think it's weak. I did as well at first, but I tested it and now I understand. It might even be better against loam than relic.

can you please post your sb? thanks

[MULocke]

can you please post your sb? thanks

This is what I'm working with right now:

4 Submerge
2 Threads
2/2 Red blasts
3 grip
2 pyroclasm

[Waikiki]

I never board in grave hate vs loam. I chose not to run grave hate at all. Submerge just won me all the aggro loam matches (GRb with and without chalice/confidant)

The plan is to slow them down just long enough to get inside of burn range or even death. (F/I and submerge really shine here)

[Atog]

I never board in grave hate vs loam. I chose not to run grave hate at all. Submerge just won me all the aggro loam matches (GRb with and without chalice/confidant)

The plan is to slow them down just long enough to get inside of burn range or even death. (F/I and submerge really shine here)

I boarded against loam submerges, but i just have quite bad luck :( Everytime when i played submerge to tarmogoyf, response to fetching he draw it next turn Those PoPs would shine there, i will put them sideboard for next tournament, also against TES they would be nice (0 basics) :)

[sauce]

I never board in grave hate vs loam. I chose not to run grave hate at all. Submerge just won me all the aggro loam matches (GRb with and without chalice/confidant)

The plan is to slow them down just long enough to get inside of burn range or even death. (F/I and submerge really shine here)

so you want to get crushed by landstill/ichorid too?
i dont understand why relic is not the shiznyte?
in the mirror you can make sure their mongoose never hits threshold which seems really good... and in other matchups you can prevent annoying recursion of wasteland and shrink terravore.

also, you will auto lose to ichorid w/o relic/crypt.
submerge is CUTE, but it wont help you vs ichorid.

[Waikiki]

so you want to get crushed by landstill/ichorid too?
i dont understand why relic is not the shiznyte?
in the mirror you can make sure their mongoose never hits threshold which seems really good... and in other matchups you can prevent annoying recursion of wasteland and shrink terravore.

also, you will auto lose to ichorid w/o relic/crypt.
submerge is CUTE, but it wont help you vs ichorid.

Do Notice I play canadian thresh. That mean's Relic would suck big time for me. I Haven't ever felt the need for grave hate vs landstill. And I chose to give up the ichorid matchup because it's on the decline in my meta. And even then it's not an autoloose for me. Submerge helps me against way more decks then crypt/relic does.

[undone]

[Economics]
The point of disrupt is not about just how good it is, or its "general utility." The question is about its "marginal utility", or how useful it is compared to everything else you could be using. Yes, it is nice to have in the combo matchups, but is it really better to devote four slots solely to the combo matchup when those slots could be better put to use elsewhere? Seeing as reb is still managable against combo, why do we cut off four slots of our already crammed sb? Their marginal utility is low because of the number of matchups they are useful in as well as how useful they are in those matchups. As for control, reb is much, much better against blue control and other control decks tend to play a lot of land to cast their expensive spells (making extra dazes weak). Low marginal utility means they get cut from my sb so my other matchups can get better.
[/Economics]

Also, test submerge if you think it's weak. I did as well at first, but I tested it and now I understand. It might even be better against loam than relic.

(nod) I agree fully and like the above SB except I REALLY want 2 price of progress afterall 43 lands goes from a auto loss to an auto win in with 2 cards... Landstill gets much easier, and so does aggro loam, each tough matchups. Disrupt isnt good enough. I would cut the threads for them but thats just me as you have the mirror blasts which should take care of forces and CBs to let your goyfs get there.

Also in tempo what do you think of -1 fire ice +1 vendillion clique. The card is so good at staying alive with only one real compedator from matchups you dont win drasticaly (Stalker and in good matchups like goblins fanatic.) The tempo swing it creates is awsome and it recycles dazes in the late game. It also helps solve the rare problem of not finding a creature to win it.

[MULocke]

(nod) I agree fully and like the above SB except I REALLY want 2 price of progress afterall 43 lands goes from a auto loss to an auto win in with 2 cards... Landstill gets much easier, and so does aggro loam, each tough matchups. Disrupt isnt good enough. I would cut the threads for them but thats just me as you have the mirror blasts which should take care of forces and CBs to let your goyfs get there.

Also in tempo what do you think of -1 fire ice +1 vendillion clique. The card is so good at staying alive with only one real compedator from matchups you dont win drasticaly (Stalker and in good matchups like goblins fanatic.) The tempo swing it creates is awsome and it recycles dazes in the late game. It also helps solve the rare problem of not finding a creature to win it.

The problem with clique is that it's too slow for this format. It's nice in standard and extended because all of the scary spells some down late, but here everything is so cheap that it's just to slow. Also, a three-power guy does nothing in the mirror where it's all about goyfs. It seems okay, but just too cute and not relevant enough, whereas fire/ice is really, really solid all the time.

Also, are you suggesting PoP for tempo, with no basics? I understand the point of flame rift and bringing it in when you're the beat down, but it seems just a little too cute to have to cut real sb cards for.