[OLD] UGr Threshold

[undone]

The problem with clique is that it's too slow for this format. It's nice in standard and extended because all of the scary spells some down late, but here everything is so cheap that it's just to slow. Also, a three-power guy does nothing in the mirror where it's all about goyfs. It seems okay, but just too cute and not relevant enough, whereas fire/ice is really, really solid all the time.

Fair enough, I just really want another creature in place of a fire ice. A dryad, or wear bear might work. I have had mixed results with clique, tipicaly he is awsome in the mirror as long as you dont LOSE the goyf /goose fight you just draw it out. He also dodges CB which has been nice on several occasions. Although I feel like your probably right a fire ice is most versatial a vendillion clique helps our bad matchups alot though.

In any case I still definately would not go without +2 price of progress it just seems so huge...

[MULocke]

Fair enough, I just really want another creature in place of a fire ice. A dryad, or wear bear might work. I have had mixed results with clique, tipicaly he is awsome in the mirror as long as you dont LOSE the goyf /goose fight you just draw it out. He also dodges CB which has been nice on several occasions. Although I feel like your probably right a fire ice is most versatial a vendillion clique helps our bad matchups alot though.

In any case I still definately would not go without +2 price of progress it just seems so huge...

Now I wish I had the time to test that between now and Saturday morning... Clique and PoP seem good, but only testing will show. I'm gonna stick with the proven md for now, but I just might try to mise some wins out of my sb.

[sauce]

giving up the dredge matchup may be ok if youre not going to GP Chicago and its not played in your meta.
i dont think you can just ignore one of the most broken decks in the format and hope not to get paired against it otherwise.

i never won vs dredge when i did not have gy hate besides fluke games.

[undone]

giving up the dredge matchup may be ok if youre not going to GP Chicago and its not played in your meta.
i dont think you can just ignore one of the most broken decks in the format and hope not to get paired against it otherwise.

i never won vs dredge when i did not have gy hate besides fluke games.

The best way to win dredge is to win the roll hope they suck and try to cast spells against you and you get to counter the discard outlet.

Boarding in clasm helps but really if I were going to the GP I would dump the ichorid matchup in a heart beat. You will not see more than one if that heres why.

1) Its not popular it hasnt top 8ed all over the place and been popular for the pros who want to play force goyf top decks.

2) It will not be common due to LED being expensive legacy only card which is required in good builds.

3) It takes extream skill to not error the deck out on itself

4) The deck has a tendecy to self destruct and is only mediocer in the combo match.

Now I wish I had the time to test that between now and Saturday morning... Clique and PoP seem good, but only testing will show. I'm gonna stick with the proven md for now, but I just might try to mise some wins out of my sb.

Clique is good in many matchups the matchups its proven to be pretty to awsome good in are

1) The mirror
2) blue aggro control matchups NOT playing stalker
3) Combo (WAY better than fire ice, simply because it prevents double/triple chant)

It also serves a great perpose in the control matchup of preventing goose deaths (nom nom board sweeper)

I would say it shines most in the counter top MU when we both establish relativly equal creatures or you have a goyf and they dont have two. Simply because unlike many other cards in the deck they have between 4 and 8 cards that can beat it, and it splits the farming targets up, after all which one would you rather they send farming?

As a side note that I have found with PoP

PoP is infact the nuts. It is insane. However you have to play conciously around it yourself, dont crack your fetches past the 1 valc and 1 trop. If you do then its just our right nuts.

[Enigma]

PoP gave me wins against Aggro-Loam and Landstill. Both games could have been lost without it, mostly the landstill's one. Double POP @ 10 dmg each is fucking lethal.

PM

[undone]

PoP gave me wins against Aggro-Loam and Landstill. Both games could have been lost without it, mostly the landstill's one. Double POP @ 10 dmg each is fucking lethal.

PM

PoP just does so much your only boarding it in in matchups that have basicaly 0 clock so its more effective. I would consider a 3rd if the metagame was heavy on those but I would not recommend more than 2 in most metagames.

Price of progress wins games, landstill games litteraly finding a goyf to block man lands and falling aslee... I mean cantriping till you find a PoP.

No longer is goose the only way to beat these decks, you add cards that can solo the match alone.

[freakish777]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Boom/Bust would give you 3rd turn 2 mana Stone Rain provided you have a Fetch or Waste out. And Armageddon against Landstill...

[Adan]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Boom/Bust would give you 3rd turn 2 mana Stone Rain provided you have a Fetch or Waste out. And Armageddon against Landstill...

Carddisadvantage! And Bust is almost not supportable.
In the past we had various discussions about Epicenter, but Winter Orb was always be able to establigh itself as the control hoser. Alternatively Price of Progress or Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon in some metagames.

[undone]

Carddisadvantage! And Bust is almost not supportable.
In the past we had various discussions about Epicenter, but Winter Orb was always be able to establigh itself as the control hoser. Alternatively Price of Progress or Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon in some metagames.

You wouldnt play crack the earth. Dont play boom bust.

Price of progess is just TOO good to not play. Moon effects are greedy IMO, when they work you auto win when they dont they did nothing. PoP on the other hand is a counter or lose/screw/8 you card.

I also am partial to vendillion clique as a 1 of over a fire/ice or spell snare depending on metagame (tipicaly fire ice)

[Waikiki]

I've been wanting to test out the clique for some times right now but never had the chance. I will do so next tournament I play in.

[johanessen]

I played the Caplan list changing the Wipe Away for the Vendilion and one wooded foothils for 1 island. Seemed good to me, liked the change

[undone]

I played the Caplan list changing the Wipe Away for the Vendilion and one wooded foothils for 1 island. Seemed good to me, liked the change

Change rushing river first. Heck change fire ice (IMO the weakest card we already hose goblins with a 1G abyss) first. Wipe away is a bomb that is needed.

[sauce]

You wouldnt play crack the earth. Dont play boom bust.

Price of progess is just TOO good to not play. Moon effects are greedy IMO, when they work you auto win when they dont they did nothing. PoP on the other hand is a counter or lose/screw/8 you card.

I also am partial to vendillion clique as a 1 of over a fire/ice or spell snare depending on metagame (tipicaly fire ice)

price of progress also does like 4-6 to you...

[Smog]

Cast it when they're in the red zone and it doesn't matter how much it does to you, as long as you can live through it. PoP is amazing and (imo) the only reason burn is even halfway viable in this environment.

[undone]

price of progress also does like 4-6 to you...

Landstill

43 land

Aggro loam

None have fast clocks and matchups like loam are decided before you play this card. The differance is that this card switches who is winning in the matchup with 1 card. Its like a 1 card backup plan that wins matchups otherwise thought bad.

[Waikiki]

Change rushing river first. Heck change fire ice (IMO the weakest card we already hose goblins with a 1G abyss) first. Wipe away is a bomb that is needed.

IMO rushing rivers is stronger then wipe away and I absolutely love the multi use of fire/ice. Its very usefull in alot of matchups.

[sauce]

current board:

3 submerge (ta/loam)
2 reb (merfolks/control)
2 pyroblast (merfolks/control)
2 hydroblast (sligh/loam/gobs)
1 explosives (elves/zoo/dreadnought)
2 pyroclasm (merfolk/elves/zoo/gobs)
3 krosan grip (dreadnought/staxx)

thoughts?

[undone]

current board:

3 submerge (ta/loam)
2 reb (merfolks/control)
2 pyroblast (merfolks/control)
2 hydroblast (sligh/loam/gobs)
1 explosives (elves/zoo/dreadnought)
2 pyroclasm (merfolk/elves/zoo/gobs)
3 krosan grip (dreadnought/staxx)

thoughts?

Cut a grip and an EE for 2 PoP thats my only advice.

[sauce]

Cut a grip and an EE for 2 PoP thats my only advice.

i dont feel comfortable w/o 3rd k-grip especially since dreadnought is a 2 turn clock.
there will be plenty of dreadstill present at the GP and i dont think I can afford to dismiss it.
i am sure there will be way more dreadstill than loam.
now that all kinda brings me back to playing relics instead of submerges.. those seem to be so relevant in loam/landstill to turn off the annoying life from the loam or at least to tone it down.

[MULocke]

i dont feel comfortable w/o 3rd k-grip especially since dreadnought is a 2 turn clock.
there will be plenty of dreadstill present at the GP and i dont think I can afford to dismiss it.
i am sure there will be way more dreadstill than loam.
now that all kinda brings me back to playing relics instead of submerges.. those seem to be so relevant in loam/landstill to turn off the annoying life from the loam or at least to tone it down.

Against landstill, your most relevant cards are: (in order) Nimble Mongoose, Krosan Grip, REB. Goose gets there, and grip deals with all of the problem cards. You have stifles and counters for most removal spells, and grip gets crucible off the table as well as removing humility. Yes, relic deals with crucible recursion too. You already run grips, though, so you don't need them. REB obviously makes sure all your spells resolve.

Loam: I haven't tested this as much as I'd like, but Submerge is really awesome in response to a fetch, or just in general.

Team America: Submerge kicks relic's ass. I have tested, and this is my conclusion. You're free to agree to disagree.