So I guess that means the usual split of 2 REB and 1 Pyroblast is now far inferior to just using 3 REB.
I actually have the benefit of playing in a land where all goblin players usually... suck. It's still not a good matchup, but at least every now and then I can steal a couple of games just by outplaying my opponent or if they keep worthless hands. Therefor, it might be more worth to board in Needles since I think that a less good player more often would keep hand with a lone land and a vial where a more experienced would have mulliganed.
So far, I'm 3-2 vs goblins in duells in tournament, however, I think 2 of those games was because of a more inexpeciened player.
"Think of all we could learn from it! It's the chance of a lifetime! You must let me have it! It's a magnificent specimen!"
Scandinavian Master Legacy 2010
World champion 93/94 2013
Hi..can anyone post a general matchup analysis of Merfolk vs the field?
What are its good matchups, bad matchups, etc? How does it fair against the new elf+natural order/prog and the thresh/goyf natural order/prog decks?
I'm under the impression that goblins and the goyf sligh deck are pretty bad matchups, but what else? Also, what sideboard cards are good against each matchup etc (I know there's some talk in the front post, but it looks a little outdated, etc)
The primer is updated regularly. The information it does have is fairly recent. If anything it just doesn't have everything you're looking for.Originally Posted by seanw22
I wonder how it feels to be bored.
-Jhoira, artificer
Read back two pages. We beat blue, lose to red and green, tie white and black.
Debatable. The change happened like back in Sixth Edition, I can't believe you missed it. Here are some benefits for a 2/1 split:So I guess that means the usual split of 2 REB and 1 Pyroblast is now far inferior to just using 3 REB.
1) Meddling Mage/Cabal Therapy still see play.
2) If your opponents see both Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast, they will have no idea how many blasts you boarded in, and they might assume that you have at least 5, since REB is basically better than Pyroblast. "You know that I know that Pyroblast is worse, but I know that you know that I know that Pyroblast is worse... so I'll run Pyroblast").
3) Style points/Cost. Black border Pyroblasts are a dime a dozen, but Beta REBs are probably like a buck or two.
But yeah, Red Elemental Blast is a strictly better card. If you have REB and Pyro and your opponent has a blue spell on the stack, try to lead with the Pyroblast since either can be MisDd onto a spell, but you'd rather end up with REB in hand.
Unless it's more complicated. Like your opponent might Meddling Mage and is more likely to name REB or you're trying to bluff like you don't have countermagia to draw out an early play.
In our case, Blue Elemental Blast vs Hydroblast, I prefer to play Hydroblast. The differance is as you say very narrow but I think the benefit Hydroblast has is that it can be cast as a breaker for Standstill in opponents EOT. That seems a bit more relevant than most other situations I can think of.
"Think of all we could learn from it! It's the chance of a lifetime! You must let me have it! It's a magnificent specimen!"
Scandinavian Master Legacy 2010
World champion 93/94 2013
Pyroblast/Hydroblast also have the benefit of being able to target non-blue permanents which is relevant if you use it in decks like Belcher since it boosts your Storm-Count by 1.
Just trying to point out something.......whatever.
Current List
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
12 [UNH] Island
4 [MOR] Mutavault
4 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
4 [TSB] Lord of Atlantis
2 [EVE] Wake Thrasher
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [NE] Daze
2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [OD] Standstill
2 [DS] Echoing Truth
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 3 [OD] Divert
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 3 [MM] Energy Flux
SB: 2 [10E] Pithing Needle
Hey, I've been playing a few tournaments and doing pretty well with the deck-I've split for first every tournament I've played in (5) and usually play in the local tournaments in my area (Jupiter Games) with the following list:
// Lands
4 [MOR] Mutavault
12 [10E] Island (3)
4 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
2 [EVE] Wake Thrasher
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [6E] Lord of Atlantis
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
2 [EVE] Cold-Eyed Selkie
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [NE] Daze
2 [DS] Echoing Truth
3 [SC] Stifle
The sideboard I'm still working on...but what I was really wondering is how do we beat Engineered Plague? That's really one of the only cards that I'm afraid of when playing the deck. People have been talking about Annul, but I really don't like that answer. I was thinking of running Sygg, River Cutthroat to avoid the issue all together, as he survives it, but I'm not impressed with that idea. Any thoughts on how to deal with it outside of countering it? My friend thought Sunken Ruins...but...really?
Oh god, Has gearhart seen this yet? He's gonna kill someone when he finds out that someone else is having success with selkie.
Team Unicorn: We're horny...get it?
Artificial Evolution
Instant, U
Change the text of target spell or permanent by replacing all instances of one creature type with another. The new creature type can't be Wall. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
Is this a good answer to Engineered Plague, or too narrow? It's nice to bring it in against U/W/B landstill and name soldier, or just name wizard against confidant decks/rock decks, or something to that effect. I think a lot of people will have Engineered Plague in their board preparing for Goblins at least, if not Merfolk (or maybe even Elves).
The only other thing I can think of is potentially Commandeering the Engineered Plague in the first place...but that's a loss of a lot of cards. Am I too worried about Engineered Plague?
Personally, Selkie has won me games and helped me out one game to prevent Goblins from resolving a single spell with all the cards I drew from her(?). However, it gets destroyed by Engineered Plague... :(
What exactly would Sunken Ruins do for you against Engineered Plague?
I'm pretty sure he means Sunken City, that gawdawful Crusade wannabe for blue.
BTW, the trick to beating Engineered Plague is NOT using stuff that is total crap against every other card like Artificial Evolution is.
Drake Familiar
2/1
Rules Text (Oracle): Flying
When Drake Familiar comes into play, sacrifice it unless you return an enchantment in play to its owner's hand.
This may do the trick considering how much mana disruption and countermagic the deck has.
Or probably just Annul.
But I tell you what - if you are going to Chicago, you had better bring something or you are going to get owned by that card.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
Yea, I thought the card would be incredibly narrow, but still had potential hypothetically...
I did mean Sunken City btw, but I wasn't happy about that card either.
Do you really like annul as your answer? Or do you have another card for it?
hi my 1st post am going to the gp hows this list look
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// NAME: monobluefish
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [MOR] Mutavault
13 [5E] Island (3)
// Creatures
4 [TSB] Lord of Atlantis
3 [EVE] Wake Thrasher
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
// Spells
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [SC] Stifle
4 [DD2] Daze
4 [DS] AEther Vial
2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [5E] Hydroblast
SB: 1 [ARC] Blue Elemental Blast
i want a 2rd beb sb
hows are match up vs Survival and Dredge and ant and dreadstill
^I'm a little lost here. Can someone pls explain to me what the difference actually is between Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast? Is it that Hydroblast can only hit spells and permanents which are exclusively red? Like, for example, it wouldn't work on gold cards???
To be honest, it never even really occurred to me that there even was any difference between these two cards...
EDIT: @sandydogmtg: Most of these match-ups you're asking about, from what I've played of them, mostly boil down to whether or not you can counter their crucial spells when they play them. Against Survival and Dreadstill, Pithing Needle helps you a lot out of the board... Propaganda would wreck Dredge if you were somehow able to stall long enough to resolve it without dying... Echoing Truth is probably yr best bet against Dredge though (bounce their entire army when they attack). ANT I haven't gotten the chance to play against much, but from what I understand it comes down to whether or not you can counter them while they're in the middle of trying to go off... Or countering Ad Nauseum would probably be pretty clutch as well.
As far as Dreadstill, I'd be much more afraid of versions that play 'Goyf, but I don't think most of them do anymore nowadays. Basically, the only must-counter spells that they have (unless they pack 'Goyf) are Counterbalance and the Stifle they use on Phyrexian Dreadnought (remember not to counter the 'Nought, he pretty much counters himself if you nerf their Stifle). Islandwalk is also pretty huge against them. I always consider siding out Standstill against other decks that use Standstill, but I'm not sure if I would against the Dreadstill. I'd say you can probably get rid of your Stifles, and obviously also Relic, against Dread decks that aren't using 'Goyf.
**Probably the most crucial thing you can do is try to figure out what type of deck your opponent is using ASAP so you can save your Daze and FoW's for that one card you just can't live with them playing.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
It sounds like it, seeing as you are boarding in terrible cards to try and stop it. I mean, you have Counterspells, and you should be playing bounce. It takes two Engineered Plagues to stop us, so as long as you can stop one out of the two that they will probably see over the course of a game, you're fine. But yeah, if you're that worried about it, play Annul over Pithing Needle.
Hydroblast can target any permanent or spell, not just red ones, so if you need to get a card out of your hand (Standstill, Tarmogoyf, etc.) you can play it targeting a land or whatever for no effect.^I'm a little lost here. Can someone pls explain to me what the difference actually is between Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast? Is it that Hydroblast can only hit spells and permanents which are exclusively red? Like, for example, it wouldn't work on gold cards???
So... let me get this straight. Is this thread really so stagnant now that we're debating the merits of two cards which are 99% similar to one another, based on their individual abilities to produce no effect whatsoever?? (Not to mention that in both of these examples, you could just cast BEB with no legal target, and it would fizzle. However, it would still pop Standstill or pump Tarmogoyf... not that this deck wants to pump Tarmogoyf. Or to usually be the one who has to pop Standstill, whether it's ours or theirs, although we're sometimes forced into it by a competent opponent.)
Hydroblast vs. BEB just seems like a bunch of intellectual masturbation to me, and until I get an example of where one of these wins a game that the other card would not have won, I'm not going to believe there's any point in discussing it. But hey, maybe I'm just a crab.
SIDEBOARD SUGGESTIONS:
EDIT: Does Vendilion Clique seem like a reasonable replacement for Kira to anybody else? Granted, her ability does less than Kira in an overall sense, but it does something every time. Add to that the fact that it has flash (and thereby pseudo-haste) and +1/-1 compared to Kira, and Clique seems to me like it's actually more offensive and more disruptive than Kira at the same time... Although I can't really think of the match-up that Clique would be perfect for. I've just noticed that most decks that play creature removal only play four slots devoted to it, eight at the most in something like Pikula, where Vindicate can double as creature-kill, even though it's mostly used for land destruction... And Kira has just consistently underwhelmed me in about a month of play-testing this deck.
While at first glance Clique is less of a role-player than Kira, consider this: Kira's "role" rarely ever comes online. The only way she "does something" is if A) they respond to her by killing one of your creatures, or B) if they draw into removal and then can't play it until they draw into more removal. It just doesn't seem to me that Kira ever really "wins you the game" like we want the cards we use to do for us. On the other hand, while Clique isn't specifically geared to any one match-up, it gives us a generally-good card to sideboard in for our main-deck cards that don't perform in any given match-up. I'm not necessarily saying Clique is worth sideboard space.... What I am saying, is that after trying Kira out for a good while now, I don't think she's worth the space, and I'm looking for replacements. And I could certainly think of worse than a card that basically says, "any card that you'd like to side out, but don't have appropriate hate to substitute for, I could hook you up with a 3/1 flier with disruption/card-fixing at instant speed. Standstill not working in this match-up? No good targets for Stifle? I can hook you up" Holla.
EDIT: Also, which card seems better for the sideboard: Sower of Temptation or Threads of Disloyalty? I'm not sure which seems like a wiser investment, getting a 2/2 flier as a bonus, at the expense of a more easily destroyed theft condition, or having much higher limitations placed on what I can steal, but getting it for less mana and less of a chance of them being able to get their creature back... I'm leaning towards Sower, because he's an extra body, he goes nicely with Divert, and he can steal anything... But is four mana just too much yet again??
Last edited by DukeDemonKn1ght; 03-05-2009 at 09:21 AM.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Erm, no? If there is no red permanent or red spell to target, you can not play BEB. You can't cast a spell that has no legal target. I.E. If every creature in play is black, you can not play Terror and just have it "fizzle," since there is nothing that you can target.
Some actual discussion? Okay, I like Jitte in my board against red decks, and I might not play any blasts. Tinkering with my sideboard, might run something like this:
3 Jitte
3 Propaganda
3 Back to Basics
2 Wipe Away
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Pithing Needle
I am sold on Back to Basics, Propaganda, and 1 or 2 Relics, leaning towards at least 2 Jittes and 3 Needles, and still testing whether I need Wipe Aways in addition to my MD Echoing Truths.
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