[Deck] Ichorid

[Charlatan]

From an Ichorid player's standpoint, which is scarier; having Bridge Extirpated or having Dread Return Extirpated? I would think Bridge, but I'm not sure.

First of all, i think that a ichorid player's shouldn't be afraid of Extirpate, IMO this card is irrelevant against icho's deck.

but, answering your question, bridge is worst, because with out bridge, there is no reason to use dread return.

Ty!

[Muradin]

Well, if you call a 10/10+ regenerating Golgari Grave Troll no reason to use Dread Return once your bridges are extirpated, then you are right. You still can transform your Narcomoebas, Ichorids and Putrid Imps into real threats by using Dread Retun. It will not have the "I win" effect it has when you still have your bridges in your graveyard but still it is a very potent play I've made quite frequently in tournaments.

[Seriously]

did this deck actually do well somewhere in order to get moved back into this section ? or has it been moved back here cause of hype about it at GP chicago ? anyone know ?

[MSC]

A quick look here will help

[bum_man]

I wouldn't say that Dread Return would be useless. Without Bridge, Dread Return would just be a lot less game-ending. One big creature is relatively a hell of a lot easier to handle than a hasted mob of 3/3 zombies. It can still bring out a big-ass Grave-Troll that could also mean a world of hurt for your opponent. If you're scared of extirpate you can tune your deck in such a way that it can still win efficiently without bridges. Reveillark is a great example. It's been seeing some play in a number of Ichorid decks I've seen lately. Without Bridges, you can return Reveillark, sac it to therapy then bring back a Big Grave-Troll and FKZ to bash your opponent in the face now.

[sunshine]

Bummer, I was hoping this deck would keep a low profile for a couple more weeks. Oh well.

A Dread Returned Troll is a lot harder to deal with than people think, and Ichorids are not easy to deal with on their own. The game is far from over if you get your Bridges removed - especially if you have access to EWitness for more gas.

[thefreakaccident]

Bummer, I was hoping this deck would keep a low profile for a couple more weeks. Oh well.

A Dread Returned Troll is a lot harder to deal with than people think, and Ichorids are not easy to deal with on their own. The game is far from over if you get your Bridges removed - especially if you have access to EWitness for more gas.

I have won a lot of games against ichorid by simply having swords/humilities and extirpate with landstill... I think you guys are underestimating how good extirpate is against this deck (shutting down a whole 1/3 of all of your options with one card is amazing).

[Kuma]

Having either your Bridges or Ichorids Extirpated sucks, but it hardly prevents you from winning. Having both Extirpated makes it nearly impossible to win.

There are numerous better options against Ichorid than Extirpate. Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Leyline of the Void, Samurai of the Pale Curtain.

If you're worried about Ichorid, pack the above cards instead of Extirpate.

[HammafistRoob]

Having either your Bridges or Ichorids Extirpated sucks, but it hardly prevents you from winning. Having both Extirpated makes it nearly impossible to win.

There are numerous better options against Ichorid than Extirpate. Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Leyline of the Void, Samurai of the Pale Curtain.

If you're worried about Ichorid, pack the above cards instead of Extirpate.

But dude the great things about Extirpate are that 1) It's a fucking 1 mana Instant. And 2) Ichorid can't answer it.

I mean they can kill/needle the other cards you mentioned with no problem. Your pretty much saying that winning the game for 2 black mana is a bad plan, when it's actually a very good one.

[sauce]

Having either your Bridges or Ichorids Extirpated sucks, but it hardly prevents you from winning. Having both Extirpated makes it nearly impossible to win.

There are numerous better options against Ichorid than Extirpate. Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Leyline of the Void, Samurai of the Pale Curtain.

If you're worried about Ichorid, pack the above cards instead of Extirpate.

dont forget yixlid jailer.

[Kuma]

But dude the great things about Extirpate are that 1) It's a fucking 1 mana Instant.

Tormod's Crypt is a fucking zero mana Artifact. What's your point?

And 2) Ichorid can't answer it.

Ichorid doesn't have to. Also, Cabal Therapy/Unmask.

Your pretty much saying that winning the game for 2 black mana is a bad plan, when it's actually a very good one.

Two black mana and two of the same card. I'd rather run any of the hate cards I mentioned before over Extirpate because I don't need two of them for it to be a huge setback. Also, two Tormod's Crypts cost zero mana.

dont forget yixlid jailer.

Yeah, he's good too, but he's the narrowest of the hate pieces. After Extirpate, that is, since at least Jailer is a bomb in one matchup.

[sunshine]

I have won a lot of games against ichorid by simply having swords/humilities and extirpate with landstill... I think you guys are underestimating how good extirpate is against this deck (shutting down a whole 1/3 of all of your options with one card is amazing).

I promise you that extirpate is the hate card I am least unhappy to see every time - I would always rather have my opponent side in Pates over LLotV or Crypts. Obviously every card that says something along the lines of "remove X cards in your opponents graveyard from the game" has the potential to be bad for us, Extirpate being no exception, that doesn't mean all of these cards are amazing.

[bum_man]

Extirpating something from a Dredge deck just potentially takes out just one means for it to win the game. Unlike Leyline, Wheel of Sun and Moon and other GY hate which stops the deck from running in general. Although Ichorid doesn't necessarily have an answer for extirpate aside from its discard effects, the deck could potentially gain significant board advantage after an extirpate to still win the game.

[e1567]

I agree extripate is good against ichorid but if you only see one extripate you will only remove their bridges and if you are running black it is unlikely that you are also running stp which means a large cave troll will ruin you. I played ichorid at GP Chicago and did very well with it, but then again I have been playing with Ichorid since it became a deck in legacy(I placed 20th).

During the day I only saw extripate once and they made the decesion to mulligan down to it and then got wrecked by 3 ichi's and a 12/12 cave troll(he was playing some black deck). I have to say what got me the most was the split between relics and tormods that did the most damage to me during the day, I eventually learned to hold back the needles until I saw a cabal......

Did anyone else make it to day two with ichi I saw one other guy but I didn't get a chance to talk to him?

[Charlatan]

to: e1567 - Could you post your entire list?

ty

[Mayk0l]

Don't disregard it completely, Extirpate can be quite annoying if properly timed.

[bum_man]

Don't disregard it completely, Extirpate can be quite annoying if properly timed.

Disregarding extirpate isn't really a good idea for any deck. It is quite annoying especially in multiples. It's just that playing around extirpate is exponentially easier that playing around leyline or wheel. Losing Dread Returns, Bridges or Grave-Trolls to extirpate are a pain, but isn't really impossible. Maybe unless you're up against Rock that can answer tokens and big creatures along with extirpates and leylines. That's a very depressing event, that happened to me in a tournament recently, it was nuts.

[sunshine]

@e1567: I didn't get a chance to go to Chicago, but I'm curious as to how many times you got Leyline dropped on you?

[Ozymandias]

The neice thing about playing vs Extirpate is that if your opponent doesn't have t1 hate, either a) You know you can Therapy away their extirpate or b) you probably just won.

I'm a little curious about how people board for combo. Here's my current SB:

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chain of Vapor
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Woodfall Primus

Sometimes I replace Leylines with Needles, if I feel more likely to encounter Relic than GY-dependant decks.

The question is whether your plan is to a) disrupt them heavily in the first couple turns and win with ichorids, or b) use whatver disruption you have to win off your own combo. For options a) do you board out your combo? For b) what do you shave? What decision to you use to make that.

[e1567]

I was lucky I didn't see a leyline all day, I saw black thresh at least twice but they ran relics against me not leyline's, for the most part I figured I wouldn't see much leyline I did think I would see much more of extripate but I only saw it once. I did see plenty of relics and tormods though. My list is pretty straight forward. I have tried most of the major builds and decided to use this version, during my testing session it did the best.

Lands
4 Cephalid coliseum
4 Gemstone mine
4 Underground Sea

4 Golgari-Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomeaba
4 Ichorid
1 Flame-kin Zealot
1 Cephalid Sage

4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Dread Return
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Deep Analysis

4 Bridge From Below

Sideboard

4 Pithing Needle
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chain of Vapor
2 Echoing Truth
1 Cabal Therapy

I played plenty of threshold all day. I lost to 2 of the 3 Dreadstill decks I saw and I lost to a GRw Goyf sligh(bad draws).

Extripate should not be underestimated at all but most competent Ichorid players should use a cabal therapy as soon as possible to clear the way to use your bridges, this is how I deal with extripate but I will be honest and say it will not always work but in my experience with the deck it does.