[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Dirtyoldguy366]

Here's some things i've learned about the deck in the past few weeks playing it on MWS.

1. Don't be affraid to mulligan but dont undervalue hands with no first turn plays.
Hands that would be good with an additional mana source on turn 2 or 3 are still acceptable depending on the opponent. Sure it is nice to play turn 1 chalice, trinisphere, blood moon, taurean mauler, magus of the moon, etc. (any card in our deck is a good first turn play except equipment... conditionally) Sometimes your best play is mountain go, followed by mountain go, followed by mountain(or ancient tomb/city to stop daze)... trini/mauler/magus/blood moon.

2. This deck runs a lower land count than other decks so sometimes if a hand looks vulnerable to wasteland it is better to wait a turn than lose a nonbasic. On the other side of this spectrum, do not be afraid of wasteland if you can get back to 3 mana the following turn... i guess thats pretty basic, but maybe it needs to be said.

3. Hellbent.... When you draw hands with pit dragons and raiders, try to contemplate what you could draw that would let you get hellbent faster, but also cards that will stop you from getting it. An odd seething song or arc slogger can make this difficult, and moon effects and moxen with trinisphere on the board can hurt you here... but the effects of these lock components, if you expect the decks that Dragon Stompy are good against, are too great to not play quickly. If you are torn between playing a lock component and achieving hellbent... pay the lock component.

4. Sideboard. James mink runs boil. Awesome! If your metagame is anything like mine ther are not only a lot of nonbasics but those nonbasics are often islands... The hardest part of sideboarding any deck is determining what cards are weakest against the given opponent's deck. Against control seething song is a great card to board out seething song along with some of the cards which it allows... arc slogger.. I've been loathe to sideboard out simian spirit guides or moxen... is this ever a good idea?

this is perhaps the most conflicted i am with the deck. At first i had written the deck off as junk, however with substantial playtesting i can see the place for the deck. Look at the manabases for chicago... David Caplan's Thresh list only runs 18 NONBASIC lands. James Mink made an excellent meta call and from the looks of things the deck just turned sour in top 8 matchups... which is a think that can hapen to a deck with no draw engine. I feel that with careful and thoughtful mulligans against a meta with a lot of the manabases like the top 8 a chicago Dragon Stompy could be a dominating archetype. Good luck..

Questions: When is it OK to sideboard simian spirit guides, moxen, and seething song? my sideboard looks like exactly like Mink's Sideboard


1 Blood Moon
4 Boil
1 Pithing Needle
3 Powder Keg
4 Pyroclasm
2 Umezawa's Jitte

[Kuma]

I think the best new suggestion to the deck might be Goblin Assault, since it provides a different angle of attack that grow exponentially in the form of a swarm.

I've done no testing with Goblin Assault, but there are a few glaring problems with the card. Goblin Assault is an even worse late game topdeck than Taurean Mauler. No deck with creatures will worry about 1/1 creature tokens that have to attack each turn.

That said, Goblin Assault is the best card you can run in the final slot versus Goblins. Getting your beater is nice, but forcing their goblins to attack every turn is game changing. It's not bad against creature-light decks like Thresh and Landstill, but neither deck is forced to answer it.

Goblin Assault would be a decent call in a high Goblins meta, but Goblins is a dying deck. Most of the time, I'd rather have Mauler.

I haven't done the math, but I'm sure 2 Goblin Assaults on turn 1 and 2 turns on a pretty fast clock.

Two Taurean Maulers turns one and two is almost certainly faster.

4. Sideboard. James mink runs boil. Awesome! If your metagame is anything like mine ther are not only a lot of nonbasics but those nonbasics are often islands... The hardest part of sideboarding any deck is determining what cards are weakest against the given opponent's deck. Against control seething song is a great card to board out seething song along with some of the cards which it allows... arc slogger.. I've been loathe to sideboard out simian spirit guides or moxen... is this ever a good idea?

The only decks against which Boil is better than moons are Merfolk and Faerie Stompy. Isn't eight moons enough to mess with blue manabases? Also Boil costs four mana which can make it difficult to cast.

It's never really a good idea to board out Moxes and Spirit Guides. They're too crucial to consistency.

And what problem cards does Powder Keg deal with that Pyroclasm/Pyrokinesis don't?

[mercc]

Two Taurean Maulers turns one and two is almost certainly faster.

Plows destroy your mauler-plan, it can't deal with assaults

[Kuma]

Plows destroy your mauler-plan, it can't deal with assaults

Squires destroy your Goblin Assault plan, they can't deal with Mauler.

[Tacosnape]

The problem with Goblin Assault is that any blocker shuts it off. Nobody plays Squire, obviously, but that said? Any guy with toughness 2 can just shut the card off. And due to how aggressive Dragon Stompy is, it's in the nature of most decks to play defensively against it at first. Therefore stopping Goblin Assault leaves them playing just how they should.

Mauler at least has a chance of overpowering a threat if he comes down early enough.

Anyway, so, I've been doing some serious work as to what to do with the deck's propensity to not be able to do anything on turn one on hands where it's correct to lead with a Mountain. Because let's face it, this is a problem. Especially after mulliganing to six. So I'm open to suggestions.

Here are the two cards I actually decided were worth testing.

Card #1. Forgotten Cave.

The pros of Cave are several. On a land heavy hand, you can lead with Mountain, cycle Cave. Alternately, in a hand where you'd be leading with Mountain, Go, you can also lead with Cave, Go. Midgame, it increases your chance of cycling into a creature when you need to topdeck one most.

The downsides are that it comes into play tapped, which is a pain, and is susceptible to Wasteland.

After a lot of testing, I decided the drawbacks of not being able to drop it and get the mana immediately probably weren't worth it, but I just thought I'd share this.

Card #2. Keldon Halberdiers.

Oddly better. 4 points of first strike haste is rather neat, especially when it comes down right after you just got a Slogger on the board, and can Slog-shoot an annoying 5 or 6 toughness Tarmogoyf if they choose to block your Halberdiers. It's playable off Tomb/City/Red Source if drawn midgame, but that's still tricky given that very often Dragon Stompy stops at four mana and plays a Slogger off an SSG or Song (And Seething Song into Keldon Halberdiers is a far less cool play.)

Keldon Halberdiers gives you something to do with a slow hand on turn one, though. It's stoppable with Stifle, which sucks, because the rest of your entire deck isn't. It also doesn't play nicely with Trinisphere, meaning one of them has to go sit in the sideboard. Threats in your sideboard isn't a bad option though, because very often after game one, either Moon or Trinisphere's going to your board.

Probably still isn't worth the effort, but it's a fun thing to try.

[mercc]

Well, a little measly 1/1 goblin is huge when i get jitte down on it, even I know that hasting 1/1s arent good by themselves..
And if they miss the first one, i'm always gonna do atleast 1 damage per turn and holding one of their guys of. Multiple assaults is redicilous

[Tacosnape]

Well, a little measly 1/1 goblin is huge when i get jitte down on it, even I know that hasting 1/1s arent good by themselves..
And if they miss the first one, i'm always gonna do atleast 1 damage per turn and holding one of their guys of. Multiple assaults is redicilous

Then you're relying on having a Jitte at this point. You can't rely on finding a card in a deck that has no draw. What makes Dragon Stompy win is how many of the cards in the deck create a near-irrecoverable game state for the opponent by themselves. Cards like Slogger, Dragon, Magus/Blood Moon, etc.

Decks get away with things like Counter-Top because they run a ton of draw to find both pieces, and the latter piece helps find the former. Dragon Stompy can't get away with much in the 2-card combo field.

FWIW, I'm not even sure Jitte's the best equipment anymore. I'm tinkering around with a couple other options. But right now there aren't many slots in the deck for equipment due to the nature of being unable to draw.

[Joe_C]

Ok Tash ;)

also, boil in the sb is pretty huge. only costing 3R and sine its an instant makes it really sexy against merfolk. its handy against landstill too and bodaciuos against MUC.

[mercc]

Then you're relying on having a Jitte at this point. You can't rely on finding a card in a deck that has no draw. What makes Dragon Stompy win is how many of the cards in the deck create a near-irrecoverable game state for the opponent by themselves. Cards like Slogger, Dragon, Magus/Blood Moon, etc.

Decks get away with things like Counter-Top because they run a ton of draw to find both pieces, and the latter piece helps find the former. Dragon Stompy can't get away with much in the 2-card combo field.

FWIW, I'm not even sure Jitte's the best equipment anymore. I'm tinkering around with a couple other options. But right now there aren't many slots in the deck for equipment due to the nature of being unable to draw.

I'm not relying on jitte, as i said, after the first goblin comes through i'm gonna go 1+ every turn, even better with more assaults.

This deck relies on having seething song for slogger, that's a 2-card combo..

[Joe_C]

FWIW, I'm not even sure Jitte's the best equipment anymore. I'm tinkering around with a couple other options. But right now there aren't many slots in the deck for equipment due to the nature of being unable to draw.

I think it is really the best one we can use.. Its the cheapest being 2 to cast and 2 to activate. And when it lands early on a lone creature it can just win you the game. I have been running 2 shushers in my deck and I have been loving them so far. They can make for retarded protected plays early on and help force through a jitte when you have a chalice @2 out(Ive done this countless times).. This is what I am running at the moment :

10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Arc Slogger
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Sulfur Elemental
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Vexing Shusher
3 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Seething Song

SB:

3 Trinisphere
1 Blood Moon
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Powder Keg
3 Boil

[NecroYawgmoth]

and... Yes, you can Shusher the Chalice-Ability...

just a question:

How does the Standard DS-Sideboard look like, nowadays...

Is it like in the past:

4 Pyrokinesis
4 Pithing Needle
x Jitte, Moon, Trini which doesn't fit in the mainboard
remaining Slots: Tormod's Crypt

...or has something changed??

YawG

[Wereodile]

I am very close to getting this deck built and I am leaning towards something closer to the deck that was played in Chicago with Trinisphere MD. A lot of lists here do not have them in the main, so is the general concensis that it belongs in the board? I do like the idea of dropping a chalice and a Trinisphere turn 1. There's no reason to post my DL as it's pretty much the same as the Chicago GP deck but here's my board:

4x Pyroclasm
3x Boil
3x SoFI
3x Relic of Progentitus
1x Blood Moon

With that last slot I am thinking of putting a 4th Boil in but I see every board has a Pithing Needle in it, is it that important? Also one last thing (sorry for all the Noobish questions) what about Defense Grid? I am assuming it's not in there because the Chalice-sphere tag team is far stronger.

[NecroYawgmoth]

...there are some Enchantments like Pernicious Deed or CoP:Red who wreck us like hell.

We can only handle them with P. Needle


Needle is besides that overall an good card against LS and some other MUs

YawG

[Wereodile]

...there are some Enchantments like Pernicious Deed or CoP:Red who wreck us like hell.

We can only handle them with P. Needle


Needle is besides that overall an good card against LS and some other MUs

YawG

Thanks! I will toss a needle in the board.

[Joe_C]

Thanks! I will toss a needle in the board.

I would suggest running more than 1. Elspeth is a huge issue we cant deal with either especially if it followed a wrath of god or another board cleaner. Needle is good against EE(which can be set at 3 easily engough to blow up your moons and magus's) I run 3 personally. I wouldnt run just 1.

[Zork]

Most people have not approved of 3sphere main, but some of us have never, ever taken it out. If you don't want multiples just play 2-3.

[Wereodile]

Most people have not approved of 3sphere main, but some of us have never, ever taken it out. If you don't want multiples just play 2-3.

I just like being able to accelerate into a Chalice/Sphere lock on turn 1 which should buy this deck enough time to go for the win or at least gum up the works enough to keep them out of the game

@ Joe C - thanks! I will have to suck it up and buy myself some needles then :)

[Wereodile]

So I played the deck for the first time and I friggin' love this deck! I feel it has a good first game match up against everything except heavy control. I am really loving the main decked Trinisphere I tested it last night against Meathooks, Eternal Garden and Elephant Stompy and in all those matchups an early Chalice and 3 Sphere really made the match.

Does anyone use REB in the board against control or is there something I'm missing because being hit with a FoW on the first turn really slows the deck down as it really relies on it's first turn to establish solid board position.

[Joe_C]

So I played the deck for the first time and I friggin' love this deck! I feel it has a good first game match up against everything except heavy control. I am really loving the main decked Trinisphere I tested it last night against Meathooks, Eternal Garden and Elephant Stompy and in all those matchups an early Chalice and 3 Sphere really made the match.

Does anyone use REB in the board against control or is there something I'm missing because being hit with a FoW on the first turn really slows the deck down as it really relies on it's first turn to establish solid board position.

i have seen REB in very few builds, but I wouldnt run it. We want chalice at 1 to hit, which shuts off REB. On turn 1 our plays are either going to be 2CC(chalice at 1) or 3cc(moon/trini/magus etc..). So if you play a 3cc on turn 1 and want it protected by REB you will need to get 4 mana online, which can be a bitch. This is why I run 2 shusher maindeck. Its a 2 drop beater that cant be countered, will draw an early STP from your opponent, and makes for hands like turn 1 mox, tomb, seething song, shusher, uncounterable chalice @1. And next turn you can drop a land and play jitte and equip it to shusher. That can be huge. Ive played tons of games with the deck, and I play in a blue heavy metagame. Shusher is good for me... You may want to test him out. Also since I play in a blue metagame I also picked up playing The Mighty Quinn- that deck is sick

[Wereodile]

i have seen REB in very few builds, but I wouldnt run it. We want chalice at 1 to hit, which shuts off REB. On turn 1 our plays are either going to be 2CC(chalice at 1) or 3cc(moon/trini/magus etc..). So if you play a 3cc on turn 1 and want it protected by REB you will need to get 4 mana online, which can be a bitch. This is why I run 2 shusher maindeck. Its a 2 drop beater that cant be countered, will draw an early STP from your opponent, and makes for hands like turn 1 mox, tomb, seething song, shusher, uncounterable chalice @1. And next turn you can drop a land and play jitte and equip it to shusher. That can be huge. Ive played tons of games with the deck, and I play in a blue heavy metagame. Shusher is good for me... You may want to test him out. Also since I play in a blue metagame I also picked up playing The Mighty Quinn- that deck is sick

Seriously Joe thank you. I am really sold on this deck and Shushers are going in, I will most likely encounter a lot of Aggro-Control (meathooks etc) so I think the Shusher could go along way.