[Deck] Merfolk

[elof]

I see it as both brainstorming and also, the metagame is starting to adapt to merfolks and we need to diversify, change in the way that the metagame change.

I'm currently trying out alot of different things in order to see what is "best".

[Forbiddian]

I'm wondering.

Is anyone actually thinking that tricks of this sort are worth toying with the creatures and lands after all the arguing we did last month? Or is this just brainstorming?

The deck looks pretty far from finished to me. The lack of consensus indicates this more than anything else. I think that some versions of Merfolk are better than others, but none looks really close to finished to me. Even the people most active in the thread are constantly juggling old cards or playing around with ideas.

It doesn't hurt to explore new ideas, and there might be some bombs waiting to be unearthed. It would have before the GP, when there was a deadline on a good list, but after the GP we have time to explore the ideas we think are cool and report back.

[bokepa]

I have a small tourney tomorrow, and i dont know what to bring in the side of the shity cards i have.

Some of the expected decks are: Goblins, Painter, Suicidal Black Agroo, GW Beats, WW with Worship, Survival Elves, Burn, Reanimator, Thresh, Landstill

This is my list im fairly happy with even though i miss the wastelands, it's the SB im not sure of.

12 Island
2 Mutavault
2 Mishra Factory
2 Riptide Laboratory

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Sygg (black one)
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Selkie Hedge-Mage
2 Wake Thraser

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
2 Standstill
2 Repeal

SB:
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Spell Snare
2 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Tideshaper Mystic (I dont have Tidal warriors)

Other cards i own i could switch:
2 SoFI
2 Selkie Hedge-Mage
1 Propaganda
1 Pithing Needle
2 Enginyered Explosives
4 Echoing Thruth
1 BEB
4 Energy Flux
4 Flooded Stand
1 Tropical island
4 Krosan Grip
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei divining Top
4 Counterspell
4 Sage of Fables
4 Merfolf banneret (can't remeber name)

I will post my matches when i can. So far in testing i have done well.

[Nekrataal]

I have a small tourney tomorrow, and i dont know what to bring in the side of the shity cards i have.

Some of the expected decks are: Goblins, Painter, Suicidal Black Agroo, GW Beats, WW with Worship, Survival Elves, Burn, Reanimator, Thresh, Landstill

This is my list im fairly happy with even though i miss the wastelands, it's the SB im not sure of.

12 Island
2 Mutavault
2 Mishra Factory
2 Riptide Laboratory

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Sygg (black one)
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Selkie Hedge-Mage
2 Wake Thraser

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
2 Standstill
2 Repeal

SB:
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Spell Snare
2 Cold-Eyed Selkie
3 Tideshaper Mystic (I dont have Tidal warriors)

Other cards i own i could switch:
2 SoFI
2 Selkie Hedge-Mage
1 Propaganda
1 Pithing Needle
2 Enginyered Explosives
4 Echoing Thruth
1 BEB
4 Energy Flux
4 Flooded Stand
1 Tropical island
4 Krosan Grip
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei divining Top
4 Counterspell
4 Sage of Fables
4 Merfolf banneret (can't remeber name)

I will post my matches when i can. So far in testing i have done well.

From the cards listed I would bring in Propaganda, Needle, 2-3 ET, BEB.

I had a small preparation tourney for Iserlohn yesterday with some friends. The Meta was Mono Black Sui, RGw GoyfSligh, Affinity so perfectly suited for being on top of the list for Merfolks (counted bottom-up). Guess where I landed in the end ;)

Actually only the games against Sui where close but in the end (after I lost the official rounds) we did some additional matches and it turned out to be 5:3 for him. Usually the first three rounds decided who took the win. Either I could survive his early disruption and counter his first threats or I could not. We had two quite close games where we actually hit the lategame. Both I could win because of Shackles and ET (bouncing Plague). I boarded out 4 Standstill and 2 Relics (no Tombstalker) against 1 Shackles, 3 Misdirection/Divert and 2 ET. Shackles is great for the late game I have to say, ET was valuable in this matchup as an additional combat trick to Vial. Divert effects where totally crap. I didnt succeed in playing them once on targets like Sinkhole or Discard. Why? Because neither I didnt draw then (obvious), nor I could play Divert because my opponent had enough mana to cope with Diverts. I did not have enough blue cards to pitch for Misdirection 2 times. Having said that I remember a discussion where exactly this has been stated in this very thread. My deck plays Jitte, Relics, Vial (9 artifacts), so having 6 pitch spells after boarding is just bad. Either I reduce main artifacts or ... lately I also seem to run out of luck getting presented reasonable targets for Divert, so maybe it is time to think about other solutions.

Goyflsligh which I intensly tested with my old Dreadnought and current Jitte Meroflk list was a total blow out. The first game I could drop an eraly Jitte but every creature was instantaniously burned so Jitte never came online and I was beaten to death by "Nacackl". Obviously my opponent had drawn in into a lot of burn spells. The second game took some time finally resulting in a lot of lands on both sides with no creatures out and me at 13 life. The sunsequent turns 2 Goyfs from the top win against my draw of Wasteland and Island. Mh so thats that for Jitte saving my ass against Sligh. Honestly I had wished back my Dreadnoughts from the previous list I played. I sideboarded 2 Misdirection/Divert again alongside with 2 Submerges I wanted to test. Out went 4 Standstills. Well I never saw the Submerges and the single Misdirection I could play to save one folk had to be directed to the head of the player. It would have fulminated on one of the Goyfs At that point I somehow regretted having taken out Stifle, not that it would have mattered but at least it leaves you with easier choices for sideboarding.

Affinity. To make a long story short. Game 1 he just combos me out. He has an insane hand and can land a Plating Turn 3 and equipp it to one of his 3 Ornithopters. BAM! Game 2 it seems that I can gain control after he had a good start again with two Needles naming Ravager and PLating, JItte and 2 folks out. The crucial play is when he casts a Master which I have to force and he responses with REB :/ So I face a 9/9 Beater I have to fold to a couple of turns later.

Ah well so everthing has to get better on the tourney. Hope to see some blue decks there ;) Will post the final list tomorrow after I have revised the sideboard (again).

Forbiddian is totally right. Iam still not happy with non U matchups so experiments have to take place.

[lilrikki2000]

Are there any countertop versions floating around? Right now this is what I am testing. It is good due to the card advantage and I rarely run out of steam. Also makes sideboarding easier since countertop isnt fit for some matchups.

Sidenote: for those who have jitte in their sb, when do you bring it in? other aggro decks?

Creatures
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 Wake Thrasher
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Cursecatcher

Spells
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 AEther Vial
4 Daze
4 Standstill

Lands
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
2 Mutavault
12 Island
4 Wasteland

SB
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Echoing Truth
1 Propaganda
2 Back to Basics

[lorddotm]

Are there any countertop versions floating around? Right now this is what I am testing. It is good due to the card advantage and I rarely run out of steam. Also makes sideboarding easier since countertop isnt fit for some matchups.

Sidenote: for those who have jitte in their sb, when do you bring it in? other aggro decks?

Creatures
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 Wake Thrasher
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Cursecatcher

Spells
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 AEther Vial
4 Daze
4 Standstill

Lands
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
2 Mutavault
12 Island
4 Wasteland

SB
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Echoing Truth
1 Propaganda
2 Back to Basics

What match-ups does CounterTop make better? I don't like the fact we are giving them more targets for Grips. Also, Top isn't as amazing without ways to shuffle, but that opens us up to disruption via Stifle, and we already don't run enough blue sources for turn 2 Lords.

CounterTop doesn't really fit this deck too well.

[Forbiddian]

Countertop is a lot worse without Brainstorm/Ponder.


I'm unsure how great that deck would be. Not to mention just 13 U sources and only 19-20 mana sources total might make it fairly hard to guarantee the early game UU required and then enough mana out to abuse the top lock.

If I were devoted to Countertop, I'd probably cut more cards to try to get Brainstorms and Ponders to increase the chances of landing the lock first. At that point, I'd drop under the critical mass of Merfolk and I'd decide to just play Threshold.

[lilrikki2000]

well it helps vs decks w/ low curves like thresh, elves, weenie, belcher, mbc, and ad storm...but after testing more...i c that it is useless

[elof]

Also, It requiers fetches. I would never play it without at least 4 fetches, and that makes it 8-9 Islands only. So it would probebly need to change the hole deck.

[stuckpixel]

Bit of fun Tech from mtgsalvation (courtesy of dapoonk's decklist) for all you wake thrasher fans - Minamo, School at Water's Edge - basically makes your wake thrasher a nantuko shade.

The down-side is that it increases vulnerability to non-basic hate.

Is there a consensus on Stifle main-deck? In my experience, the good players already play around it to the best of their ability, and the bad players you shouldn't have the worry about anyways.

I've religated them to my board (opponent might relax a bit after G1 of no stifle), and I'm running spellstutters in their place.

[Piceli89]

Bit of fun Tech from mtgsalvation (courtesy of dapoonk's decklist) for all you wake thrasher fans - Minamo, School at Water's Edge - basically makes your wake thrasher a nantuko shade.

The down-side is that it increases vulnerability to non-basic hate.

Is there a consensus on Stifle main-deck? In my experience, the good players already play around it to the best of their ability, and the bad players you shouldn't have the worry about anyways.

I've religated them to my board (opponent might relax a bit after G1 of no stifle), and I'm running spellstutters in their place.

This "tech" had been already shown some posts above, the point is, as you say, that such an effect would mainly require to have plenty of U open to pump Thrasher. And this deck plays 20-21 lands of which at least 7 are colorless, so this effect isn't really maximized. Furthermore, i think the manabase has already reached the balance between basics and "utility" ( non-basic)lands, adding more would make it really vulnerable to nonbasic hate. Maybe this deck can support it as a singleton inclusion if we expect lots of fanatics or burn spells, but that's about it,esclusively.

I tried myself the CounterTop engine, and it just doesn't fit this version of Merfolks. Against the decks you named, we can pack other solutions, whether it's against aggro (propaganda, jitte) or extreme combo ( against which we're already well-set up).

[lilrikki2000]

lol...i am dapoonk from the other site...and i picked up on the minamo thing from here....but yeah i agree, counterbalance is useless....also, i love stifle maindeck, i run 3 because it can be mana denial, storm killer, help vs gobs, and counterless other effects...and of course pitch if necessary

[Piceli89]

Guys, i know this "tech " has been already suggested, but playing for some games Ugr Thresh i found that Submerge is fucking gorgeous. Seriously, a time walk against decks playing Green for Tarmoggggoyfff ( which are at least 50% of the decks nowadays, and not only the DTBs) is the nuts if we want to gain some tempo. And the fact that some decks we have a harsh life against, such as Rock, Zoo/GoyfSligh and Aggro Loam, play Green makes it a good card.
Moreover, it comboes well with opponent's fetches ( fetch, in response i submerge your goyf/stalker/obesus brainless creature, say bye to him), and in certain situations it can also be extremley useful if cast in response to a Counterbalance trigger (and, of course, a top cashing-in) while we are resolving something critical. And of course, it avoids counterbalance's curve by itself.
And it comboes with standstill even better than what echoing truth did, too.

Any suggestions? Anyone who has tested it consistently to pull off a wise judgement about it?

[lorddotm]

So I was testing out a different list abusing the massive disruption found in our decks tagged on with a few Faeries to increase our disruption and chances of victory.

Creatures
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Cursecatcher
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilion Clique

Spells
4 Force of Will
4 AEther Vial
4 Daze
4 Standstill
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands
3 Mutavault
13 Island
3 Wasteland

SB
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Back to Basics
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Echoing Truth

I don't really know why Wake Thrasher is all that great, I'm thinking of switching him out for 2 Tidal Warriors or something. They seem like a win-more card. When you are behind he is the last card you want to use, but when you are ahead anything that beats is good.

I may be wrong, but this list seems solid

Also, I'm debating -1 Vendilion Clique, -1 Island, for +2 Riptide Laboratory

[Nekrataal]

Guys, i know this "tech " has been already suggested, but playing for some games Ugr Thresh i found that Submerge is fucking gorgeous. Seriously, a time walk against decks playing Green for Tarmoggggoyfff ( which are at least 50% of the decks nowadays, and not only the DTBs) is the nuts if we want to gain some tempo. And the fact that some decks we have a harsh life against, such as Rock, Zoo/GoyfSligh and Aggro Loam, play Green makes it a good card.
Moreover, it comboes well with opponent's fetches ( fetch, in response i submerge your goyf/stalker/obesus brainless creature, say bye to him), and in certain situations it can also be extremley useful if cast in response to a Counterbalance trigger (and, of course, a top cashing-in) while we are resolving something critical. And of course, it avoids counterbalance's curve by itself.
And it comboes with standstill even better than what echoing truth did, too.

Any suggestions? Anyone who has tested it consistently to pull off a wise judgement about it?

Actually Submerge is OK because it is cheap and comes as a surprise. For I only have 2 Submerge sideboard I never really drew into them. The only time I remember having them in my hand they didnt really matter anymore ;)

[elof]

I somehow imagined that it only bounced green creatures or whatever, but it's actually better now that I can use it against other creatures than Tarmogoyf and against more decks.

I been pondering if I should try Hibernation in sb. On paper, it looks good against Progenitus, Enchantress and elfs.

[johanessen]

Guys, i know this "tech " has been already suggested, but playing for some games Ugr Thresh i found that Submerge is fucking gorgeous. Seriously, a time walk against decks playing Green for Tarmoggggoyfff ( which are at least 50% of the decks nowadays, and not only the DTBs) is the nuts if we want to gain some tempo. And the fact that some decks we have a harsh life against, such as Rock, Zoo/GoyfSligh and Aggro Loam, play Green makes it a good card.
Moreover, it comboes well with opponent's fetches ( fetch, in response i submerge your goyf/stalker/obesus brainless creature, say bye to him), and in certain situations it can also be extremley useful if cast in response to a Counterbalance trigger (and, of course, a top cashing-in) while we are resolving something critical. And of course, it avoids counterbalance's curve by itself.
And it comboes with standstill even better than what echoing truth did, too.

Any suggestions? Anyone who has tested it consistently to pull off a wise judgement about it?

Page 67 first post.

[elof]

Actually, thanks to you, reading that post made me buy 4 german Submerge. So if I want to play them now, I can just toss them in :D

[ssilver]

Hibernation is sick. I Have three in my SB and it has won me games against some of Merfolk's worse matchups (elves and Survival, both which are prevalent in my meta). About Wake Thrashers, if you are facing down a Goyf on the other side of the table, and don't have an army of dudes to alpha strike, Wake Thrasher becomes MVP, his ability to deal more than goyf makes him priceless when topdecking (as opposed to tidal warrior, which is dead). He is good middle and late game, where tidal warrior is only good early game.

[_erbs_]

To all who tried with the faerie splash, how was it ?

Did the added diruption and evasion gave a big help rather than playing more merfolks or adding spot removal and color for swords to plowshares

And when you won games was it via merfolk or faeries flying over your opponent?

I would like to add that Wakethrasher is awesome (offensively) you just need to have continous flow of mana dump via creature drop or man land activation (mutavualts).

Hibernation - from me it looks nice on paper and in actual it deals with alot of stuffs from thresh creatures (goyfs, progen, mongoose, etc) , elves, etc. its better than submerge