Why would you not just run zoo at that point?
And how is Pyrokinesis good with Wort? Recurring a goblin to pitch?
Originally Posted by majikal
Read again.
It is the GREEN Wort
the Raindmother
not the black one.
me thinks 8 dmg divided how you want between creatures is very good.
10 dmg and 1 goblin sacced is very good for a goblin grenade also...
But I agree. The deck is working more like a Zoo deck then a normal Goblin one, but as I said, its a different take.
I've played him SB in monoR goblins. Goon is beyond useless against 2 plagues, you have no other creatures besides Goon so he's still not going to do anything, not attack or block anyway. Atleast a liege allows you to continue your usual gameplan minus the 1/1's against 2 plagues. And continue normally against 1 plague.
Has anybody else been having problems with Vedalken Shackles (and I suppose Sower)? I run 2 md tin streets right now to help, but warren weirding seems rather...underwhelming against it and Sower. A smart player with a Shackles and a Goyf in play is a rather large roadblock for any goblins deck, it seems like. Obviously I'll bring in grips for Plagues if they are Ugb, but I don't want to waste them right away if I somehow draw them (it often feels like only 3 grips makes it to hard to draw it against gamewinning plagues). I've noticed stingscourger is a great tool against it and is an awesome gamewinning surprise in many instances, but I don't like running him in Rbg without 4 ports. So anybody else out there having problems with shackles? I'd like to hear your thoughts.
And I've been playing monoR for about a month now. I'm sorry, plague is just too much of a problem, at least in my meta. And the loss of tinstreets and grips not to mention weirdings...well it hurts.
Also, I really, really, hope they print a RW goblin that destroys enchantments in Alara Reborn. Better yet RG but I doubt that.
Hey all , i was thinking about throwing together a Gob deck but i dont have the Taigas or the Badlands nor do i have the sac lands for that matter. Where as i do have almost all of the correct goblins/waste lands & ports. The question i have is should i spring for the spash/sac lands or is the deck able to function well without them? or is the hate that gits sided in to strong?
I would argue that it depends on what your legacy scene is like. If it is a small weekly group. Then players will know you play goblins and add in the needed hate. But now with relic being able to combat Goyf, Mono-Red is back. So if you see 4x plagues in you opponents SB more than once. Then you might want to splash for colors.
Get the green splash for Krosan Grips.
Or you will die pretty fast to Engineered Plague.
Yeah, you can play monored goblins and have an optimal deck anyway. It depends on your meta: if it feats many Stifle+Waste decks and decks that abuses the graveyard then it's the right decision.
Here's a sample list, and another sample list.
Here's the list I'm playing:
// Lands
15 [7E] Mountain (1)
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
// Creatures
4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
2 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [7E] Goblin Matron
2 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
3 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
3 [PLC] Stingscourger
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [MI] Goblin Tinkerer
SB: 1 [LE] Goblin Goon
SB: 4 [AL] Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 2 [MOR] Spitebellows
SB: 3 [EX] Price of Progress
SB is, as always, adjustable, with more Goons or Boartusk Liege/Goblin King if you're fearing plague (and you shouldn't).
Spitebellows is removal against opposing Goyf, and Good against double plague too.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
I like your deck list...but why not 3 SGC?? or even 4??
You don't want him before turn 4 unless you have a connecting Lackey. If lackey connects you're usually going to win even if you put a Ringleader/Warchief/Matron into play. And by turn 4 you have the time to draw/Ringleader/Matron one.
I did chose those number cause they make a nice curve for the deck, so you can effectively use your mana even if you don't have Lackey/Vial going.
Here's the curve of the deck:
1: 14
2: 9
3: 8
4: 4
5: 2
That said, you could easily have access to more siege gangs removing some number of Incinerators/Fanatics.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
I prefer this...if you hit with lackey in t2 with a commander in hand el will be gg. To much guys to beat!!
***
to Greenone, I'm sorry but it is really neecessary to have a mainboard tinkerer in monored. I'm also interested if you have done any testing with spitebellows. It seems like it could potentially work.
***
I would tell you neonhavoc, that there are only a few cards that monored gets really destroyed by: enginereed plague and humility. There are basically zero answers to plague (goblin goon and boartusk liege are okay but not worthy of being called an "answer") and simply NO answer to humility (technically anarchy, but humility isn't that popular anyway). Of course, there are about 8 trillion more cards monored dies to without 1-3 mainboard tinkerer, but that is beside the point.
***
to GoldenCid, in monored goblins you don't have the same tool to clear for lackey: warren weirding. Simply put, you are not mathematically likely to hit with your lackey that often, especially if going second. If you say, "well people are cutting answers to lackey so it is more likely to hit nowadays," then you should win anyways because there deck isn't prepared for goblins. ESPECIALLY if you cut fanatic and incinerator, then you have even LESS pathclearers for goblin lackey. 3 SGC can be reasonable but not in relic monored. You need at least 1 stingscourger, 2 relics, 1 tinkerer, preferably more stings and relics. You are already taking out incinerators for these cards. The monored list is actually tighter mainboard than some others because relics and stingscourgers are only really played oftenly in monored.
TL;DR: Adding 1 or 2 more SGC is a horrible idea.
***
Also, I'm still wondering if anybody else is having the same problems as me with vedalken shackles, and how to beat the card? I don't know why but it seems like whenever I post in this thread it comes to a dead halt. Maybe it's because I type too much, I dunno.
I don't believe is necessary to have a mainboard Tinkerer: artifacts are not that present in every meta, while creatures are (since Tinkerer is going to take a Relic or Stingscourger/Incinerator slot).
Spitebellows is quite good and unexpected. It always get rid of Goyf and Tombstalker, it's CB proof, and sometimes beats FTW. I'd actually play it over Pyrokinesis if mirror and tribal decks were non-present.
Vedalken shackles is not that hard to beat, unless it's paired with other beaters or Counterbalance. Just assemble a good army and swing FTW, or just bounce the creature with a stingscourger and beat face. Side in your Needles or artifact hate and you're done.
Did anyone re-test Goblin Grenade? Seems another removal for TS an Goyf in monored, and gives the deck some reach. Paired down with PoP could deal quite a good amount of DMG.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
Pretty much every meta contains at least some problem artifacts. There are a billion of them. For example Jitte, SoXY, Servant/Grindstone, Top shenanigans, Dreadnaught, Chalice, etc etc etc but you already know all this. And what does incinerator really do anyway? Sure it helps but monored is a metagame deck and if I'm playing it I don't want to have this fine-tuned metagamed deck only to lose to something as trivial as Jitte. No tinkerers is like playing with fire, your deck might improve the overall matchup with 1 more incinerator but if they draw one of their bomb artifacts you might be screwed. But I suppose you are already playing with fire with monored.
I was using stingscourger but I'm playing rbg with not many ports so I don't find him as strong, so I cut him. I guess its just me that finds problems with the card in combination with 4 plowshares 4 beb and 4 enginereed plague.
And funny thing, I actually played 3 goblin grenade sb with rg goblins at legacy worlds last year. Absolutely horrible from what I experienced.
Maybe you're right, I'll re-test it. Sure of those artifacts you listed just a little are solved with one Tinkerer: Jitte and SoFI are answered only if you already have the tinkerer active or have a Warchief in play (quite strange to have him alive with such equipments going on), Chalice is not really a problem, Servant can be dealed with the incinerator, about SDT, I don't believe it's a tinkerer that saves you from its CQ.
Incinerator is not great if not combined with Relic or playing against tribal decks/confidant, so a tinkerer might be better anyway.
You just saved me 3+ hours of testing
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
With the tinkerer thing, I think it just comes down to, I want to have some kind of out against danger artifacts. My list wasn't comprehensive by a long shot, just to name a few more there are others like affinity.dec (you can count on this, goblins, burn to always be present from what I've experienced) and aether vials (important with unlimited hand size in mirror match, and of course other vial decks), and mox diamonds from aggro loam (important if they play heavy devastating dreams), and this and that and this and that and yeah. I don't want it to be "well, gg, you played jitte and now when you equip it next/this turn that's game." Eldariel pointed out earlier that tinkerer does help with CB+Top, and while I'm not quite as passionate about it as he is, I still think it is helpful: although instead of the crucial warren weirding you have the crucial stingscourger. Unless of course the opponent looks top 3 in response and before passing priority draws card with top (knowing that I would only tinkerer his top if I had a 2cc or 3cc card coming next). Correct me if I'm wrong but then he would draw the card, put top on top of library, and then the top 3 ability. What is funny is that all we are talking about here is 1 slot in 1 archetype of 1 deck.
Thanks for the fast responses, i think im going to just go mono red for now and if i get slaped around by hate then il splash.
I think that less than 4 Gempalms main in Mono-red is probably not a great idea. Nobody's arguing Gempalm isn't the facemelter it once was, but it's still pretty ridiculous. It works under Chalice/Counterbalance/Force/whatever, and it cantrips, meaning even if you can't kill anything with it, sometimes cycling it early will grab you that third or fourth land you need to get crazy with Warchief/Ringleader/Matron shenanigans.
As for whether you should splash, it comes down to this.
You want versatile answers to every artifact/enchantment? Splash Green. Get TS Hooligan and Krosan Grip.
You want the best removal spell Goblins ever got? Splash Black. Get Warren Weirding. Also possibly discard for SB to help against hate/combo.
You want a balance of removal and combo protection? Splash White. Get STP and Ethersworn Canonist, as well as possibly Disenchant.
You want to confuse everyone ever? Splash Blue. Get some combination of Stifle/Daze/Standstill.
You want a solid manabase and a straightforward deck with no frills? Stay mono-colored.
Hey Tacosnape could i see your mono-colored list ?
:>
This is my mono red list! Check it out!!
// Lands
14 [10E] Mountain (4)
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
4 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
2 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
3 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
1 [7E] Goblin King
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
1 [MI] Goblin Tinkerer
4 [US] Goblin Matron
3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
3 [PLC] Stingscourger
1 [ON] Goblin Pyromancer
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [7E] Goblin King
SB: 1 [LE] Goblin Goon
SB: 3 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 4 [AL] Pyrokinesis
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
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