[Deck] Elephant Stompy (formerly Elf Stompy)

[Mystical_Jackass]

Hi everybody! Well, first off, I'm new here and used to play Magic a while back but recently started getting back into it. What can I say, its addicting.. like the caffeine that keeps me going lol


I was drawn to this 'cause for one I love green beatdown decks, and also 'cause my friend who's big into this game has the Faerie Stompy deck, so fusing both together is just a whole world of awesomeness!


I'm no expert, but I figured I'd toss out a few ideas... see what the experts think :)

Loaming Shaman
3/2

When Loaming Shaman comes into play, target player shuffles any number of target cards from his or her graveyard into his or her library.

I heard someone mention that you're still on the lookout for a desc 3cc drop. This struck me more as a sideboard, I know that this tarmalurgoyf dude seems pretty dominant in threshold decks these days... this card could sorta one-shot cripple their graveyard, all a sudden they're goyf's back to being a nubsicle on a stick lol; Not to mention 3 for a 3/2 aint such a bad beatstick either :)

Manaplasm
1/1

Whenever you play a spell, Manaplasm gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is that spell's converted mana cost.

Not positive, but just seemed a really cool, fitting card to greens aggro-beatdown styylee. Figured you could be kinda slick with him, turn one drop. On turn two put on a poker face and swing their way, if they choose to block you could remove your spirit guide from the game to give it +3/+3 and pwn, maybe use the mana floating to drop natural order or garruk then? Either way, play any spell or equipement etc he gets big :)


I had one question though. I know this deck runs Chalice so it prolly tries to play around using too many 2cc spells... but if you play natural order can you use sakura tribe-elder's ability as a sac outlet?


One last suggestion... that wickerbough, although its more accessible to hardcast, if you already have Garruk and natural order which are also 4cc spells, why not use like 2x Woodfall Primus to go with natural order, since it can take out lands too like Maze or enchantments without the summoning sickness lag or cost issue, an instant affect + trample. Also, SAC PRIMUS TO NATURAL ORDER TWICE MAUHAHAHHA! persists back into play and smash their lands/equipment/artifacts agaaain! lol

Again, thanks everyone glad I made it :)

[Soldar]

You've got the right idea, Soldar. Natural Order -> Progenitus does for Elephant Stompy what equipment does for the other stompys. If you're going to run Natural Order (which I highly recommend) cut equipment.

As soon as I can get my hands on some Natural Orders, I'll be happy to run them. I've been waiting for them to come back down in value; to where they should be at.

Primal Order seems like an inferior card. We're not always going to have 2GG, and with Ancient Tomb damage I can see Primal Order being bad for us even when we do. Then again, Primal Order could be a decent Rock/Landstill hoser. I think Choke is better against our bad matchups.

I definitely played it too early against this guy, but the way he had his lands in game 1 made me really want to play the Primal Orders against him. And the bad matchups (blue with 7-9 hard counters), I wholeheartedly support either Choke+Primal Order, or just Tsunami. But I couldn't get my hands on Tangle Wires, which would make Choke so much better.

I still don't get the Wickerbough Elder love. He costs four mana to play, one mana to use, and unless you have five mana when you cast him, your opponent can kill him before you can use him. What's wrong with maindecking Krosan Grip when you want artifact/enchantment removal?

With the equipment build, you just want more guys. Krosan Grip, while it definitely kills the artifact/enchantments, can sometimes be dead. Even though this guy is mediocre (Hill Giant), he still attacks and blocks through the smaller threats in Legacy. And if you have to blow up a random artifact you control to get in more damage, then so be it. I do think he should be a 3-of instead of 4, but I don't know, I personally haven't had many problems hitting the 4 mana mark. Almost all the matchups I've gone through I've wanted some variation of Disenchant, but I haven't had the need for Krosan Grip.

The one thing that I don't agree with, from some of these lists, is cutting down to 3 Garruk - he has been absolutely amazing every time I've played him.

[Kuma]

I went 3-3 with Elephant Stompy last night. My wins were Elves!, Ugr Thresh, and Countersliver. I lost to Golden Grahams, Mono Red Goblins, and White Weenie.

I tried out Loaming Shaman, and I only cast it once. I used it to shuffle away Countersliver's Sensei's Divining Top and put three Fetchlands back in his deck to hurt his threat density. Most of the time I was siding it out. I even sided one out versus Thresh, because I'd rather have Trinisphere and Choke. Loaming Shaman is a very situational card.

I think it might be the right call to board out Natural Order against any deck that runs Force of Will and Daze. As high as the upside of resolving Natural Order is, the downside of being two for one'd and losing favorable board position is too high.

It's worth boarding out Natural Order if your opponent is running a threat-light, removal-light deck like Painter or MUC.

I don't like the Empyrial Archangel in the board. It's such a situational card, and most of the decks you'd want it against can deal you eight damage in one turn. Even when I board it in, I almost always search for Progenitus. I'm probably going to replace it with a third Pithing Needle.

[Happy Gilmore]

I went 3-3 with Elephant Stompy last night. My wins were Elves!, Ugr Thresh, and Countersliver. I lost to Golden Grahams, Mono Red Goblins, and White Weenie.

I tried out Loaming Shaman, and I only cast it once. I used it to shuffle away Countersliver's Sensei's Divining Top and put three Fetchlands back in his deck to hurt his threat density. Most of the time I was siding it out. I even sided one out versus Thresh, because I'd rather have Trinisphere and Choke. Loaming Shaman is a very situational card.

I think it might be the right call to board out Natural Order against any deck that runs Force of Will and Daze. As high as the upside of resolving Natural Order is, the downside of being two for one'd and losing favorable board position is too high.

It's worth boarding out Natural Order if your opponent is running a threat-light, removal-light deck like Painter or MUC.

I don't like the Empyrial Archangel in the board. It's such a situational card, and most of the decks you'd want it against can deal you eight damage in one turn. Even when I board it in, I almost always search for Progenitus. I'm probably going to replace it with a third Pithing Needle.

I would say that it is just the opposite. Never take out natural order vs decks running Daze/Force expecially if thats all the counters they run. You win by forcing them to have the Force of Will. Or you wait till you can get them to use the force on something less relevant. Natural order is how you beat control.

[Tano]

btw, if we play natural order in this green coloured stompy shell, why dont we use the wood elves now? they have perfect synergy to this deck. So we play first chrome mox and 2 mana land at the first turn. Another forest appears when the elves resolve and in the second turn maybe a natural order, saccing the elf and bring progenitus in play....

im my opinion a very good choice now for this kind of deck, isn`t it?

[Hopo]

btw, if we play natural order in this green coloured stompy shell, why dont we use the wood elves now? they have perfect synergy to this deck. So we play first chrome mox and 2 mana land at the first turn. Another forest appears when the elves resolve and in the second turn maybe a natural order, saccing the elf and bring progenitus in play....

im my opinion a very good choice now for this kind of deck, isn`t it?

It sounds good at first, but eventually Wood elves are only good if you have Natural Order. All the creatures should be able to act as stand-alone threaths in this deck. 1/1 is really unimpressive when facing any opposing creatures. It might have some more merit if more equipment was played, but it just really is a crappy creature since you have only 4 orders and no way to draw them besides your draw step. The present creatures are just plain better and at least 11-12 of them are playable on the first turn already, making second turn order already a serious threath.

[Kuma]

I would say that it is just the opposite. Never take out natural order vs decks running Daze/Force expecially if thats all the counters they run. You win by forcing them to have the Force of Will. Or you wait till you can get them to use the force on something less relevant. Natural order is how you beat control.

The problem with playing Natural Order against control is that it's a devastating two for one if it gets countered. You have to sacrifice the green creature as part of the cost not as part of the resolution. Natural Order is a last resort against control. You shouldn't cast it if you're even or ahead in board position.

You may be right, but, so far, my experience against control is that either I didn't need to cast Natural Order, or I had to risk it and it was countered/not enough. Depending on the quality of creatures the control deck is running, you don't need a Progenitus to kill them.

Versus board control like ITF, Landstill, and Rock, Natural Order is invaluable. But against decks with eight free counterspells and good card selection (Thresh, Dreadstill) I'm not sure it's worth the risk. I'll have to play more games and see what happens.

[GGoober]

@Happy Gilmore and Kuma: I agree with Kuma on this. Against decks packing FOW + Daze, I cut one Natural Order since it's just too risky if it gets countered. Most of the time, if you have a Spawnwrithe token out, you should be on your way to victory. Against decks with FOW + Daze, I'd rather have Chokes + 3Sphere over the 4th Natural Order. 3 NO has worked out well for me. Against any non-FOW deck, 4 NO is the way to go. I remember goblins staring down at a pro-everything hydra :D

[rufus]

It seems like basic CA stuff like Harmonize or Gift of the Gargantuan, or even Greater Good is going to be better against decks that feature counterspell-type control.

[keys]

Hmm...there's 10-land stompy, though I don't think the Source has a list for that. I played with it once, so I'm not the best judge on it. The deck is really hit or miss. Here's something like the list:

4x Xantid Swarm
4x Quirion Ranger
4x Llanowar elves
4x Uktabi Drake
4x Rouge Elephant

4x Bounty of the Hunt
4x Berserk
4x Seal of strength
2x Briar shield
4x Rancor
4x Might of Old Krosa

10x Forest
4x Land Grant
4x Elvish Spirit Guide

Board
4x Hidden Gibbons
4x Hidden Guerillas
4x Hidden Herd
3x Krosan Grip

Everytime I played it I won by attacking for 20 in the air =P Not exactly sure if this is what you're looking for, since it's not a "true" stompy build in my opinion. On that note, I kind of want to look for some green creatures to use.

This is actually really cool. I played 10-Land Stompy a while back. I like the new additions-- Drake and Might. The swarms are pretty techy.

[Happy Gilmore]

The problem with playing Natural Order against control is that it's a devastating two for one if it gets countered. You have to sacrifice the green creature as part of the cost not as part of the resolution. Natural Order is a last resort against control. You shouldn't cast it if you're even or ahead in board position.

You may be right, but, so far, my experience against control is that either I didn't need to cast Natural Order, or I had to risk it and it was countered/not enough. Depending on the quality of creatures the control deck is running, you don't need a Progenitus to kill them.

Versus board control like ITF, Landstill, and Rock, Natural Order is invaluable. But against decks with eight free counterspells and good card selection (Thresh, Dreadstill) I'm not sure it's worth the risk. I'll have to play more games and see what happens.

The sack a green creature part rarely matters. Garruk and Call of The herd make loads of tokens. The most imporant thing about order is that they HAVE TO COUNTER IT. Trinisphere/Choke make is easier than you might think to resolve Order. They cant answer everything, and post board they take out CB which leaves them only 8 counters maybe. 4 if they run daze/Fow (tapping out for Order seems bad). Thats not a lot of hard counters to answer Order. They will understand this, that means that all your threats are probably going to resolve which is very good for you.

Post board they have to answer 4 choke, 4 order, 3 Garruk, Not to mention both chalice and trinisphere. Thresh and TA are probably easier than dedicated control decks. Atleast thats what it seams in my testing. They dont have wrath, so its prity good for you.

My list for reference:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Call of the Herd
3 Briarhorn
4 Spawnrith
1 Loaming Shaman
4 Esg
1 Progentius
1 Emperial Archangel

3 Garruk
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice
4 Natural order
4 Chrome mox

11 Forest
4 City
4 Tomb

SB:
4 Choke
3 Thornweild archer
4 Relic of progentius
3 Krosan Grip
1 Woodfall Primus

[gamegeek2]

I like the way this deck looks. The Natural Order combo gives it a lot of power that other Stompy decks simply don't have. Harmonize would be a nice addition, but I don't see what to cut...

[Eseph]

This is actually really cool. I played 10-Land Stompy a while back. I like the new additions-- Drake and Might. The swarms are pretty techy.

Unfortunately both drakes and swarms rarely actually see play in 10-land, replace them with 4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk, and 4x Nettle Sentinel and you've got yourself a more realistic version. Oh and the Lawnmowers with Silhana Ledgewalker.

On-topic, no love for Tangle Wire in the last few lists? Surprised not more people are running it.

[Happy Gilmore]

Unfortunately both drakes and swarms rarely actually see play in 10-land, replace them with 4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk, and 4x Nettle Sentinel and you've got yourself a more realistic version. Oh and the Lawnmowers with Silhana Ledgewalker.

On-topic, no love for Tangle Wire in the last few lists? Surprised not more people are running it.

You could cut trinisphere for wire, it might be good. Its also a very humorous answer for decks running Order/Progentius combo, tapping it down for a couple of turns to get some swings in. I don't think you can run both without cutting something that is necessary to the deck. And harmonize is weak. I would rather run more must answer cards such as garruk, Order, etc.

[Master Shake]

You could cut trinisphere for wire, it might be good. Its also a very humorous answer for decks running Order/Progentius combo, tapping it down for a couple of turns to get some swings in. I don't think you can run both without cutting something that is necessary to the deck. And harmonize is weak. I would rather run more must answer cards such as garruk, Order, etc.

Unless they are playing that Natural Order off 2 ESGs its only going to tap down Progentius for a turn, max. And then again, that is only if they play it off a Dryad Arbor. If you're lucky enough for them to tap Progenitus you've all ready won because your opponent doesn't know what he's doing.

Tangle Wire is good, but I don't think that its better than Trinisphere, the evidence would be that no other chalice aggro decks or stax variants use Tangle Wire. Trinisphere can win games on its own and is a huge piece of disruption, at its best Tangle Wire buys a couple of early game turns, but more likely they play one-costs that upset you. Yes, I realize Chalice is in the deck, but isn't drawn every game.

[Eseph]

For the record Wire has tested to great succes pre NO and Progenitus, I was really just questioning it's loss post NO. As it still works wonders with Spawn, Garruk, and Progenitus.

PS: I would never replace 3sphere with it, it supplements it.

[kicks_422]

I've recently started playing this on MWS and it's been performing really well. I haven't been able to test a lot against established decks though... What are its good and bad match-ups? Like the OP, I'm looking for a Chalice Aggro deck and this one with Natural Order seems like one of the better (if not, the best) one.

[Mystical_Jackass]

I know you guys were discussing NO vs daze+force of will, or just counters in general.. that it's sorta a risky move 'cause the effect not only fizzles but you have to sac a valuable creature.


ANyways, what about Pattern of Rebirth? I know it seems sorta nubbish, but if it's countered at least you don't lose a valuable creature like your briarhonr, spawn, goyf, etc. right off the bat, leaving you with no defense/offense. I used to play the card back in the day is all, its always a funny psycological game Lol.. like, I don't want the creature to hit me for damage, but if I kill it I'm gonna be doubly f'd lol. Just a thought

yeah, NO's still prolly better but it'd be cool if you had a cool 3cc creature that could be used as a sac outlet too >.< Like a nantuko husk creature for green, ah well some day lol

[Happy Gilmore]

They would never counter it if they can simply swords the dude and get a 2for1.

Creature enchantments have to be very very good to be in legacy. And right now, there are none.

[Mystical_Jackass]

I was talking about counters like Daze+Force of will, how Pattern of Rebirth has a similar ability but will limit your losses, is what I was saying.

Throwing swords of plowshare into the picture is a whole new story. Either way, wouldn't natural order be the same thing, they could just swords or bolt the creature when it's on the stack?