[OLD] UGr Threshold

[undone]

I didnt find CB to be the card that wrecks you, it is more like top goyf IMO.

[sauce]

I didnt find CB to be the card that wrecks you, it is more like top goyf IMO.

ive played maybe 100 matches of ugr tempo thresh (canadian) vs cbtop thresh and whenever a cb resolved, i lost probably 85% of the games.

most of the spells being @ 1 and 2 cc in the deck, cbtop shuts down 50% of them blind just w/ top alone and if they float a 2 drop on top, youre dead to wipeaway/rushing river outs only to try and resolve a spell.

they also swords your goyfs and you pretty much cannot fight swords other than w/ force of will.
its a really bad matchup w/o 4 REB and maybe like 2 trygon 2 k-grip post board.
if you can stop (Spell snare) the cb and somehow land an early goyf, you may be able to win if you can keep them off their threats..

if they land a top they eventually out-card-quality you though and win.
really, the way to win is to disrupt their lands early w/ waste/stifle and just keep pinging them w/ a mongoose.
if you can out-tempo them first 5 turns, you will probably win, thats how i won the games i did win.

[goobafish]

Top is the problem card in the CB.dec matchup, not necessarily counterbalance. You really want to counter their Tops. I am not a fan of swapping the bounce spells for Trygon Predators and especially not Sowers because of their high mana costs and the fact that they force you to tap out. I have yet to try Cliques, but I am perfectly happy with the bounce spells as it stands, and see no reason to play around with it yet.

[undone]

On cliques: Clique is a bolt and a thoughtseize effect, it gives you an extra out to the lands matchup, is great in the, well every matchup. It is only equal to/worse the wipe away when they land counter/top. The thing is clique gets there so fast.

[Henrik]

I would like some key guidelines on how to sideboard with Goobafish's sideboard, from Goobafish especially, or anyone else using the same sideboard and have managed to reach top 8s with it.

For reference:
4 REBs/pyroblast
4 submerge
4 disrupt
1 EE
1 krosan grip
1 pyroclasm

I still use pithing needle to stop cards such as survival and pernicious deed, and I also don't find 1 EE and 1 pyroclasm enough to fight the tribal/wheenie matchup. I would like to see examples of +/- lists on how to sideboard against as many matchups as possible, preferably the decks to beat, using the above sideboard. Thank you all!

[Joon]

Uhm...I personally like Clique in combination with the Bounce spells? I cut a F/I for one Vendellion-thing and I am searching currently space for Clique number two. It's just a good card in this deck and more than eight beaters is also nice to have, especially when they have evasion.

[sauce]

Top is the problem card in the CB.dec matchup, not necessarily counterbalance. You really want to counter their Tops. I am not a fan of swapping the bounce spells for Trygon Predators and especially not Sowers because of their high mana costs and the fact that they force you to tap out. I have yet to try Cliques, but I am perfectly happy with the bounce spells as it stands, and see no reason to play around with it yet.

i agree, but even w/o top, cb does its job via brainstorm(4)/ponder (4) setups most of the time.
plus their swords just crushes the goyf sans fow (which usually goes for the top unless they get 1st turn dazed like newbs)

[undone]

Uhm...I personally like Clique in combination with the Bounce spells? I cut a F/I for one Vendellion-thing and I am searching currently space for Clique number two. It's just a good card in this deck and more than eight beaters is also nice to have, especially when they have evasion.

I am currently at 2 with -1 Fire ice and -1 RR. 10 men is a good number because clique hits the same turn goose does and is a decent target for FOW pitching. Essentialy I have reached the point where I have never, save against dragon stompy, wanted RR over clique and even than it was a close call as I could RR away a 3sphear and a moon in responce or cast clique when hes at 10. Clique is just very good as he fits the tempo and makes sure he still has more than 1 effect, he is also removal "resistant" so to speak because he deals with 1 removal that is in hand.

Henrik I would like some key guidelines on how to sideboard with Goobafish's sideboard, from Goobafish especially, or anyone else using the same sideboard and have managed to reach top 8s with it.

For reference:
4 REBs/pyroblast
4 submerge
4 disrupt
1 EE
1 krosan grip
1 pyroclasm

I still use pithing needle to stop cards such as survival and pernicious deed, and I also don't find 1 EE and 1 pyroclasm enough to fight the tribal/wheenie matchup. I would like to see examples of +/- lists on how to sideboard against as many matchups as possible, preferably the decks to beat, using the above sideboard. Thank you all!

-4 disrupt
+2 pyroclasm
+2 tormads crypt

Disrupt is not very good as people already play around daze and it rarely is important overall. Your best bet is to go with hate that hits other zones. 3 pyroclasm is just right, 4 is too much and 2 means you arent always able to T2 clasm or hold the T2 clasm. Also in the trible matches Goyf> little merfolk,elves,goblins. Although goyf<Vanquisher, vanquisher eats a bolt.

Tormads crypt is a card I have gone to 0 of and regreted it, but 3 is too many as you need to remove loam and at least potentialy have outs to dredge.

EDIT:

What does every one think of this guy

Wisescale Serpent* 1GU
Creature - Snake
Whenever you draw a card, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Wisescale Serpent.
2/2

Its like dryad but strictly better.

[Justin]

EDIT:

What does every one think of this guy

Wisescale Serpent* 1GU
Creature - Snake
Whenever you draw a card, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Wisescale Serpent.
2/2

Its like dryad but strictly better.

Seems like he has potential in thresh. He gets three counters every time you brainstorm :) The only question is whether the 3cc is a bit much.

[johanessen]

Pros:
not gy dependant
draw more times than play spells (better than quirion)
pitches with fow

Conts:
Costs 3
bad topdeck
no evasion/shroud

I think it wont get the n uts

[rsaunder]

When I first read it, I thought I saw "flying" and I was sold, but as a vanilla beater, I don't think it makes the cut over something like predator.

[undone]

When I first read it, I thought I saw "flying" and I was sold, but as a vanilla beater, I don't think it makes the cut over something like predator.

I agree, I dont see it being better than vendillion clique as the 1/2 of extra creatures in the deck.

[Justin]

I agree, I dont see it being better than vendillion clique as the 1/2 of extra creatures in the deck.

I dunno. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the serpent is the best three-drop creature you can find. You drop it. Then after drawing a card for your next turn and brainstorming, you are swinging with a 6/6.

[undone]

I dunno. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the serpent is the best three-drop creature you can find. You drop it. Then after drawing a card for your next turn and brainstorming, you are swinging with a 6/6.

Pros for clique

Almost always gets in there for 3+
evasive (flies over goyf)
Peek+ hand disruption
Top decks like a champ

Cons

Cannot ever block very well...
Dies to EVERYTHING

Serpent

Pros
Tipicaly a 4/4+ after you untap with it
Blocks well in aggro matchups
Faster clock than clique
More removal resistant
Wrecks humility like a champ (important for me ;) )
If you work it right bigger than a dreadnaugh/goyf
Inevitability

Cons
The turn it comes into play it does nothing at all
If top decked you need one of about 12 spells that draw a card or it is very bad.

The thing is, they are better in differant situations I personaly perfer clique at the moment because it feels more agressive and is almost ALWAYS a bolt (citp steal removal smash face at least 1 time) but as tomb stalker becomes a problem I would rather have the snake sometimes.

[from Cairo]

...you need one of about 12 spells that draw a card or it is very bad.

Honestly I think what's best about the Serpent is that you don't need anything, other than leaving a blue mana open. It serves as Tarmogoyf 5-X as far as creature stand offs go. Cause you can sit there on it as it grows, or swing in depending on hand / board state and even if you're faking them out, I think the possibility of it Giant Growthing is going to fuck with people's combat math a ton.

You don't need to throw a Brainstorm on it turn 4 just so you can swing in for 6, turn sideways for 3, next turn 4, etc, they throw a Goyf in front of it BS it to a 7/7, they throw 2 Goyfs and if you BS into a Bolt you just traded a Bolt for a Goyf, etc.

Obviously the combat can play out differently game to game, just seems like this guy is going to be a lightning rod at worst, and at best is going to grow to insane levels (scarily familiar to our Lhurgoyf friend). I mean I could be completely wrong, but the card seems very good/fitting to U/G as long as Brainstorm is legal in Legacy.

[Jak]

I dunno. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the serpent is the best three-drop creature you can find. You drop it. Then after drawing a card for your next turn and brainstorming, you are swinging with a 6/6.

You don't get +1/+1 for drawing your card a turn. It says only spells or abilities.

[from Cairo]

You don't get +1/+1 for drawing your card a turn. It says only spells or abilities.

Wisescale Coatl* - 1GU
Creature - Snake (Uncommon)
Whenever you draw a card, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Wisescale Coatl.
2/2

[sauce]

should we just run bloodhall ooze then since it can grow too?
i mean i rather run terravore if i was gonna change out the 3 drop for something.

[from Cairo]

should we just run bloodhall ooze then since it can grow too?

The Serpent doesn't require you to keep a Tarmogoyf or Nimble Mongoose on the table. And in addition to draw step growth it grows with Ponder, Ice and Brainstorm, seems quite a bit different.

i mean i rather run terravore if i was gonna change out the 3 drop for something.

IDK, the notable downsides of Terravore are requiring GG and being somewhat controlable by your opponents choices. Granted G1 probably most people wouldn't play around it, I wouldn't expect Terravore in Thresh, but if I saw it game 2 one could atleast be aware of it. In the late game Terravore will be bigger, in the mid game it could probably go either way depending on how many fetches each player used and how many Wastes were drawn vs how early the Serpent got down, if one had a cantrip heavy hand.

[undone]

sauce should we just run bloodhall ooze then since it can grow too?
i mean i rather run terravore if i was gonna change out the 3 drop for something.

Come on now sauce. This card is a 3/3 for 3 at worst that gets huge, blood hall ooze is a 2/2 for 1 AT BEST which is not nearly good enough.

The thing is that this creature is one of the fabled "Untap with this in play win the game" cards that MUC and other control decks used to play with. Well when it costs 3 mana instead of 6 thresh can play it, im just not sure if its better than clique, eating a removal, flying and flash are all very strong effects.