I seems like that. It was just a situation. What really happened was that in the former match i wished for IGG and i forgot to put it back in the sb. So when i began to comboing off at T3 i realized that there was no IGG to search for. So my only chance was EtW, ToA wasn't enough at that point. This circunstance show me the utility of grapeshot.Originally Posted by Piceli89
Off course, my plan against aggro is comobo off via IGG loop or even AN.
I've said this before and i'll say it again. TES does deserve a top deck spot.
In fact, the storm that topped at GP Chicago has just as much in common with TES as ANT and the Wishes are purely TES.
However, we are kept out because no one has posted big results in a while and sadly myself and other TES players failed to represent at the GP. Although the lack of results i blame on the fact that ANT is really really hyped while less people have heard of TES.
In other news, What do you think of cranial extraction in the board? Its basically an auto-win against opposing combo since it lets you take away their tendrils. however, its also a side spot which is very valuable but imo improving the combo mirror beyond just a die roll and who draws best can be good if you have a combo prevalent meta.
Why not just extract? U for the same effect. Either way, its an awful idea. Storm combo mirrors aren't prevalent enough. I did this during the Hulk Flash metagame though.
..Bitter Ordeal would be way more stronger and synergic with our deck way to work than the forgotten (rightly, i guess) Cranial Extraction. Or i'd rather play Telemin performance, which is game against combo and there's a serious probability it's game also against some forms of Landstill (Eternal dragon seems to be less played in these late deckbuilding tendencies). But combo mirrors never happen these days, so it's always better to dedicate that slot fighting the blue/artifact/creature shitness prevalent now.
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Just a silly question to anyone who wants to give his opinion: do you think that the printing of Cards such as Rhox War Monk and the next superstar Lorescale Serpent will give TES , paradoxally, some benefits in the eternal problem against Counterbalance? If white "threshold" (better to call it BANT) begins to play thiese dudes over-say- mongoose, the manacurve could see some transformation towards a higher density in the 3-cc slot, where TES just doesn't care. It would be pretty nice, especially because i think that combo won't care that much of the new-generation fatties, if not of their cc for Counterbalance, obviously. It could be even better if the known skeleton of threshold slightly changes to adapt these beaters, and begins to adopt a less-tempo version, maybe reducing (cutting seems very difficult to happen, but perhaps..) the Dazes, which actually cause quite lots of problems to Storm Combo archetypes.
Opinions?
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's going to be a marginal difference. CB is still going to be a MUST answer for TES, because if Top hits, it's over. Especially if they run the new guy, since he'll be much more of a threat than Goose has ever been.
Yes, but there's still a statistical difference, although not beng enormous, between running 4 cc1 and 4 cc3 in that slot, talking of the curve threshold has, which determines the %s of flipping a certain cards with Counterbalance. I know, of course that BANT is NOT going to run 4 Serpents, but still, it seems that its tendency is the one to raise the avg cc of its beaters (see Monks, and in some cases, sower). And this is nothing but a benefit for low-curve decks such as TES.
To be honest, I'm happy if BANT decides to play this dude over mongoose, since, by the time it will be on the board and it will have made some damage to me, i'll have already tried to go off, with or without success, since i know i can't afford to lose many times sculpting a perfect hand against a deck running Counterbalance . Mongoose, instead, can be more troubling, since it comes down more quickly, can steal me some damage and can't be even REBed post side. And it increases the cc-1 slots (in which TES has 2/5 of its own cards) for counterbalance flipping, of course.
I can't deny that Cb+Top is over, but it doesn't happen in all the matches that it comes down, fortunately.
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Forgot Extract. And actually my meta has a shit ton of combo from ANT to Belcher and such and i dont like dice rolls.
Also, anyone else dissapointed in the lack of good cards for combo in alara? Hopefully Zendikar will have something good.
I know it's nitpicking, but in case you face double Teeg, just point at their supertype. SBE-fueled removal is always nice.
Last edited by bruno_tiete; 04-24-2009 at 01:31 PM. Reason: typo
FeFe Team: Legacy in the Southern Hemisphere.
Yes, sorry for that, i realized Teeg is legandary. But the same issue applies for double Mage, which isn't so remotely rare.
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You red blast/chain one, then win around the other?
Isn't just better to pyroclasm them making 2x1 in one shot ?
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Why can't you just play a mox/petal then Grapeshot for the same effect and have a back up win condition for Halo?
Diversity/Flexibility > not.
the point is: if you go burning wish->grapeshot, and cast it the turn after, isn't it just a lil' weak? and btw, you can't always make petal+'shot or rite of flame+'shot. And i don't think you usually reach a storm count of ,say, 17-18 to bypass halo naming tendrils.
Pyroclasm here can make the same thing, i.e. removing pesky creatures preventing you from going off,in a better way, with less cards-resources investment. At least, i see it in this way. For the same cost, you get a more complete answer, which may be useful against vary decks.
And if you fear halo, you usually don't go wish-->grapeshot, you go wish-->enchantment solution ( whether it's vindicate, hull breach, maesltrom pulse or random enchantment breaker), and then combo. Tendrils is still the most powerful and reliable win con of this deck.
This deck has already enough flexibility (having 2 kill spells and 3 storm engines) at its actual state; therefore, powerful card>situational and weak one.
EDIT: above i'm refering in the situations where wishing for grapshot and casting it as the only spell of the turn is crappy, of course it's not if the turn after you go: petal petal rite of flame ecc and then you go ANT or IGG and go off, but that would be quite a perfect hand with plenty of mana to cast both removal and storm enginers in one shot, ( kinda infrequent, btw), while many times you just have to waste a turn shooting mages/canonists, and here i think 'clasm is plain better.
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Did you cut Ad Nauseum? I showboat and purposely storm up to thirty and kill people with Tendrils at events for fun. If you can't cast a lethal Grapeshot after Nauseum there's a problem. Why can't you play Rite/Mox/Led/Petal/cantip then grapeshot? Half of the deck costs next to nothing.
It's not a better way, rarely you'll need to kill more than one creature. Or if you do need to kill both you've already lost the game by taking too long to win. It's not a more complete answer, it only answers one thing, where grapeshot deals with multiples. Not to mention the fact grapeshot can deal damage to an opponent after killing critters. It also kills opponents after an Etw or tendrils. I won a game in Chicago based on the fact I had Grapeshot in the sideboard.Pyroclasm here can make the same thing, i.e. removing pesky creatures preventing you from going off,in a better way, with less cards-resources investment. At least, i see it in this way. For the same cost, you get a more complete answer, which may be useful against vary decks.
Why would I wish for removal when I could just win on the spot? Take your time, storm up, and win.And if you fear halo, you usually don't go wish-->grapeshot, you go wish-->enchantment solution ( whether it's vindicate, hull breach, maesltrom pulse or random enchantment breaker), and then combo. Tendrils is still the most powerful and reliable win con of this deck.
This deck has already enough flexibility (having 2 kill spells and 3 storm engines) at its actual state; therefore, powerful card>situational and weak one.
All this without mentioning the posibility of cracking the front critters when you have 18 goblins as mentioned above!
I can accept some of your points, Bryant, but on one thing i'll never consider grapeshot > pyroclasm: if you go rite--> shot, for example to kill a mage, you have lost 2 cards to kill 1 ( not considering the Wish spent to grab 'shot, of course). in that situation, if you have pyroclasm, it kills by itself Mage, for the cost of 1 card. If you'd cast grapeshot alone even paying it with lands, without adding a rite, it deals 1 damage, which is useless against the x/2 critters that wreck this deck. Since this deck sometimes (not always, indeed) reachs 2 lands before killing, as it's meant to be since it's a fast combo that doesn't want to wait too much (at least, it should be this way, since you're fighting against an opponent who usually has something to slow or mess up your combo plans, unless you're playing against rebels.dec), OK, you can pitch a rite to grapeshot and kill a Canonist/Teeg/ troubling Mage, but after that, you'll lack a mana accelerator to pull off the storm engine. And you can say "just wait and then storm", but you know better than me that the more this deck waits to go off, the more the opponent fills his hand with counters and lowers your life, especially against Threshold.
And again, if i drop a led and then grapeshot, the turn after when (i presume) i'll try to go off i'll lack the possibility to make +1 storm, which is in many cases vital to reach the 10-count for tendrils ( in Igg loops, most of all).
How the fuck do you reach a storm count of thirty after Ad Nauseam ? Or you're incredibly lucky, or i can't grab it. I tried by myself and gone to 20-22 at maximum, but i got really, really lucky Nauseam -flips. However, it stills seems a bit difficult to me to win entirely via lethal grapeshot,e ven post Nauseam.
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You're also assuming you have two lands. If you don't have both lands to cast 'clasm you're going to have to use acceleration to cast 'clasm. Making it a worse Grapeshot because it doesn't have the option of killing. I understand that every once in awhile, rite -> Grapeshot happens. However, that's the worst of possibilities. More often it's 2 lands, Mox/Petal/LED, or the turn you're going off. If it's the turn going off, I often deal with the problem creature, send 5-8 at their face. Then cast Tendrils from my hand/tutor. The benefits of grapeshot far outweigh the cons.
When I said wait and storm, I didn't mean turns - I meant actual time. Play out all the possible cards/tricks you can do. If you're really losing by one storm, you're probably doing something wrong. Cast a cantrip or ad Nauseum.And you can say "just wait and then storm", but you know better than me that the more this deck waits to go off, the more the opponent fills his hand with counters and lowers your life, especially against Threshold.
And again, if i drop a led and then grapeshot, the turn after when (i presume) i'll try to go off i'll lack the possibility to make +1 storm, which is in many cases vital to reach the 10-count for tendrils ( in Igg loops, most of all).
How is it hard? You can Ill-gotten gains a possible 5 times, chain of vapor, and all the cards drawn.How the fuck do you reach a storm count of thirty after Ad Nauseam ? Or you're incredibly lucky, or i can't grab it. I tried by myself and gone to 20-22 at maximum, but i got really, really lucky Nauseam -flips. However, it stills seems a bit difficult to me to win entirely via lethal grapeshot,e ven post Nauseam.
5 times Ill Gotten Gains? or what do you mean iam a little confused :)?
There's 1 IGG and 4 Burning Wishes, so you can IGG 5 times.
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