[Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm

[GoldenCid]

On Shusher and X. swarm:

Shusher

CMC: This in important for two reason: 2 mana > 1 mana, obviously. But you may reveal shusher with ADN getting an extra damage.
It`s ability is needlable and stifleable but it's uncountereable and makes your spell uncountereables if you have the open mana. In this point if feel shusher like a "sphere effect".

X. swarm

CMC: One mana is one mana.
Its abaility is mana independent and not needleable. However it's countereable.

[GreenOne]

what do you tutor for if you dont have hellbent or LED in hand ? do you just not tutor and hold off ?

so diminishing returns is a popular wish target for you, more so than ETW ?

I usually use the excess tutors to get either acceleration if I can't combo with the cards in hand, or get the second protection piece if I'm playing against blue. Obviously infernaling on turn 2 after a brainstorm is huge for its shuffle effect.
If I have excess Wishes generally I wish for Discard (protection), ETW (the opponent will be digging in the next turns for some solution for it instead of counters, and it also leave you open to both tendrils or ETW, making your hand more flexible), or Diminishing Returns (if I fail my combo attempt, I can still play it and have a fresh new hand).

Diminishing returns is an effective target against discard, which I happen to play quite often against.
ETW is a close second, but it's better if wished in the first 2 turns, or if the opponent doesn't have multiple creatures/jittes going. Playing ETW on turn one is almost always good, but from turn 2 on it's going to be risky, cause Deed and Plague become factors. Also, I'm siding in 3 copies of ETW against stifleless counterbalance decks, so I'm usually not wishing for it cause many times I already have it in hand.

[GreenOne]

So, new card spoiled:



Not that impressive in this deck, but 2 considerations have to be done:
Slops: this thing can actually be another answer to ETW tokens in the MD of legacy decklists.
Props: this thing can be 1x in our sb. Someone of us plays vindicate or Hull breach. This thing can actually be better than vindicate in this deck, taking out multiple copies of the same hate card, even double counterbalance. If the manabase could support the of Vindicate, than can support too. It also can be an answer to opposing ETW or Bridge tokens.

[Giles]

]Maelstrom Pulse.

Honestly it depends. Maelstrom Pulse and Vindicate are dueling it out for the same spot in the sideboard.

Also, Vindicate is easier to cast than Maelstrom Pulse.

[GreenOne]

Honestly it depends. Maelstrom Pulse and Vindicate are dueling it out for the same spot in the sideboard.

Also, Vindicate is easier to cast than Maelstrom Pulse.

The only time Vindicate is easier to cast is when you're imprinting an Orim's chant on Chrome mox (so you have Orim, Mox and Burning Wish in hand with only 2 lands and zero petals?).

It's not really a reason not to play a card that can deal with multiple hate card. Well, that's only because TES does not have to deal with lands (sometimes Tabernacle messes with ETW, but that's all).

[Bryant Cook]

Honestly it depends. Maelstrom Pulse and Vindicate are dueling it out for the same spot in the sideboard.

Also, Vindicate is easier to cast than Maelstrom Pulse.

I feel that Pulse being able to deal with double counterbalance is more important than G vs W.

[Giles]

I feel that Pulse being able to deal with double counterbalance is more important than G vs W.

Sure it hits a double plus counterbalance. But do you really think that people with knowledge of slow rolling counterbalances in the face of Pulse, makes Pulse better?

Remember if you are just hitting one, it just a worse Vindicate.

[Bryant Cook]

It also destroys multiple chalices. What land do we need to destroy? Its never worse than vindicate.

[BreathWeapon]

It's more or less a pipe-dream regardless, you still have to get Burning Wish thru' Counterbalance and you still have to invest a turn casting 3cc removal. I think you guys have to consider whether or not Vindicate itself is worth the slot over the 1 or 2cc removal, before you decide whether or not Vindiate or Maelstorm Pulse is better than the other.

[GoldenCid]

@Cook: What did inspire you to run vindicate in SB cutting 1 pyroblast? Why the underground sea?? Paradise and orchard went worst??

[Bryant Cook]

I want a card that can solve problems. I want to be able to board in all three shattering sprees against chalice decks while keeping a removal spell in the SB. I need something for Enchantments (preferably 3cc to dodge balance). It also answers Teeg/canonist.

As for sea, it's been beaten to death a few pages back. Basically I wanted lands without side effects.

[Giles]

It also destroys multiple chalices. What land do we need to destroy? Its never worse than vindicate.

I am just playing devil's advocate here.
There has been times where I have blown up a Tabernacle to win with tokens. Currently I have been messing around, looking for proactive answers.

EDIT: Although I have never have ran into it, Glacial Chasm might cause problems. But I am not sure on the ruling on this and Tendrils.

[Bryant Cook]

I am just playing devil's advocate here.
There has been times where I have blown up a Tabernacle to win with tokens. Currently I have been messing around, looking for proactive answers.

EDIT: Although I have never have ran into it, Glacial Chasm might cause problems. But I am not sure on the ruling on this and Tendrils.

Chasm is damage. Not loss of life.


This new card is better than vindicate in TES.

[SuperBean]

Another Japanese foil for you to get ahold of

[evilchen]

Here i post my list iam going to run the next time for testing/training while playing TES

Lands
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Forbidden Orchad

Spells
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lions Eye Diamond
4 Rite of Flame
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Orims Chant
3 Duress
3 Chrome Mox
2 Mystical Tutor
2 Ad Nauseam
1 Chain of Vapor (Dont know if i should cut it for 2nd Cabal)
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Ill gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard
3 Pyroblast (maybe 4 blast 2 xantid or vise versa don't know yet)
3 Shattering Spree
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill gotten Gains
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Grapeshot
1 Duress
1 Tendrils of Agony

- I don't know if its worth to run 1 duress in Sideboard?
- Sometimes iam thinking about Pact of Negation mainboard
- I know its possible to kill someone via Grapeshot but i've allways used it for creatures so iam thinking about Pyroclasm in that slot
- vs discard/extirpate decks iam searching for a slot in the sideboard to pack in a 2nd ETW to side one in after boarding but thats sounds like a hard plan :/

[GGoober]

I've been working on TES, and one question I had in mind is why isn't TES a DTB. To me, in all honesty, the deck seems much more stronger than ANT, being able to access more acceleration, more tutors (burning wish). It's true that the deck's manabase is more fragile (no basics), but we can play under moon effects with Burning Wish, Rite of Flame, Petal + EtW. Also, Burning Wish gives additional flexibility to answer Chalice/3Sphere.

I'm not understanding how this deck is "inferior" to ANT if it is. I personally think it's stronger.

@SB options: Anyone thought of Virtue's Ruin to kill Teeg/Canonist/Meddling Mage/Tidehollow Scullers?

[Elf_Ascetic]

I've been working on TES, and one question I had in mind is why isn't TES a DTB. To me, in all honesty, the deck seems much more stronger than ANT, being able to access more acceleration, more tutors (burning wish). It's true that the deck's manabase is more fragile (no basics), but we can play under moon effects with Burning Wish, Rite of Flame, Petal + EtW. Also, Burning Wish gives additional flexibility to answer Chalice/3Sphere.

I'm not understanding how this deck is "inferior" to ANT if it is. I personally think it's stronger.

@SB options: Anyone thought of Virtue's Ruin to kill Teeg/Canonist/Meddling Mage/Tidehollow Scullers?

Well, because ANT does a better job finding protection. ANT has 4 brainstorm, 4 ponder, 8 fetchlands, 4 mystical tutors. Combined with 4 Orim's Chant and 4 Duresses in the main, ANT just wins against blue decks that haven't got CB or a fast clock.

[BreathWeapon]

@SB options: Anyone thought of Virtue's Ruin to kill Teeg/Canonist/Meddling Mage/Tidehollow Scullers?

You're investing 3 mana to remove 1 target instead of 1 mana to remove 1 target too often; Death Mark is better, IMO, because it's more efficient and it removes Tarmogoyf also.

[GoldenCid]

- I know its possible to kill someone via Grapeshot but i've allways used it for creatures so iam thinking about Pyroclasm in that slot

Once i thought like you. But look this. If you use EtW, pyroclasm will your golbins too, and you will need some time to combo off again.
I was in this situation. I dropped 16 goblins and my oponent has that many elves including that that wins life equal to the number of elves. Trust me i wished i had grapeshot instead pyroclasm in my SB. The match was a draw. Fortunately i had won the fisrt match so i won the round. The advantage of grapeshot is its selectivity.

[Piceli89]

Once i thought like you. But look this. If you use EtW, pyroclasm will your golbins too, and you will need some time to combo off again.
I was in this situation. I dropped 16 goblins and my oponent has that many elves including that that wins life equal to the number of elves. Trust me i wished i had grapeshot instead pyroclasm in my SB. The match was a draw. Fortunately i had won the fisrt match so i won the round. The advantage of grapeshot is its selectivity.

Well, i think that if you opted for the Ewt kill against tribal decks (elves in this case), there's something which dosn't work with your way to play TES. EtW should be avoided absolutely against those types of deck, since they can pretty much recover from fast goblins being that much fast and dropping more consitent creatures (merfolks/elves/goblins all have nastier creatures which combo well among them, plus the advantage of running lords, particularly merfolk). If you don't manage to drop at least 12-14 gobbos by turn2, don't considder that option anymore,period.
Against elves, all you need is just wait a turn more if you don't have a hand which allows you to go off, and then go for it. Casting EtW is always risky, and once you discover that your oppo's playing elves, you're pretty much sure he hasn't anything to prevent you from comboing with the "true"storm enablers+tendrils. That should be an auto -win matchup, really.
So, i don't assume running grapeshot instead of pyroclasm is a valid thing because the second "kills my goblins too"; i'd wish to see you in certain "really hard" situation (double gaddock teeg or mage+canonist on the board) where pyroclasm does the difference, whereas grapeshoting for 2-3 wouldn't let you do anything. btw, Pyroclasm>>>grapeshot against goblins, which are way deadlier and fast than crappy elves, and sometimes can wreck, with quite lot of luck ( wastelands+fast clock), this deck.