Buried Alive/Intuition + Reanimate is at least 4 mana, is susceptible to graveyard hate, can't put Progenitus into play, and costs one reanimation spell per target.
Wtf? Did you read what I was responding to? I was pointing out how Reanimator strategies don't need 3 cards. Thanks for letting me know the obvious though.Originally Posted by Hunding Gjornersen
I wouldn't say the god draw for this deck is a turn one win. I would rather combo out on turn 2 or 3 with protection and put two dudes (Progenitus and Magister Sphinx?) into play. Against any deck packing FoW there's really no reason to combo out in the first couple turns - and if they're not playing Islands then your god hand doesn't need protection.
i don't think u're right here. how often will u really need 3 guys instead of 1 or 2? even versus fast storm combo disruption seems better. after some testing i incline toward a build with 7-8 Fow/Unmask because perhaps it's enough to garantee getting at least one fattie. just choose right fatties which are nearly impossible to deal with. not unprotected hasted fliers (though hellkite overlord is mb worth including) but fat untargetable progenitus, archangel and leviathan.
and how do u call it a bad reanimator? it's faster, it doesn't need a graveyard at all and it can use progenitus. where is it worse?
also mb nobody here cares, but about all this deck (but disruption) is 1.X legal. not that good against any level blue though.
Isn't your best possible hand something like:
1 Cascade spell
2 lands
1 Spirt Guide
1 Progentius
1 Decree of Silence
1 FoW
draw 1 blue card off the top?
There needs to be more Decree of Silence in these lists.
freakish777, if u replace the 2nd land with the 2nd spirit guide and Decree with a blue fattie, ur best possible hand will become even better, won't it?
what exactly do u want to counter with Decree after resolving Hypergenesis and putting a huge shroud creature into play?
stp? we don't care.
goyf? same.
deed? good luck.
diabolic edict? ok, it can hurt us, but we often have more than one beater and even if we dont edict isn't that popular.
wrath? nobody plays it.
natural order? humility? stiflenaught? hmm ok.. but..
A couple of things:
Manabase:
REFLECTING POOL!!!
Cascade:
Bloodbraid Elf can cascade into another cascade spell. Danger is it can also cascade into a SSG or ESG.
Permanents:
Decree of Silence seems unnecessary with things like Progenitus.
Perhaps Thunder Dragon or something like it to get rid of any weenies they drop?
Sphix of the Steel Wind is a great fattie if only because of lifelink.
If anyone's tried Street Wraith, let me know how it works. Seems good, but IDK.
EDIT: Oh, and Angel of Despair to get rid of some unwieldy permanents.
Sideboard:
Here's what I've got so far:
4x Wipe Away (vs Counterbalance and Confinement)
4x Leyline of the Void
4x FoW (not maindeck)
3x Loaming Shaman (just in case)
(This concept is cribbed from others. For example here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...2&postcount=82)
Here's an off-the-cuff example.
Cycling Critters:
4x Street Wraith
4x Architects of Will
4x Monstrous Cabarid
4x Igneous Pouncer
Protection:
4x Force of Will
4x Foil
4x Unmask
Combo cards:
2x Living End
4x Violent Outburst
4x Ardent Plea
Lands...
Since the protection is free, the deck should be able to spend it's mana cycling cards on turns 1 and 2, and then fire off the combo on turn 3.
Master Shake definitely has a point about Demonic Dread. Lots of people play early creatures in Legacy, but it'd be nice to ensure you have a target.
ykpon is 100% right about Pillar of Paruns. Good find.
Here's yet another list:
4 Adrent Plea
4 Violent Outburst
4 Demonic Dread
2 Hypergenisis
4 Progenitus
3 Magister Sphinx
4 Inkwell Leviathan
4 Sphinx Sovereign
3 Unmask
4 Force of Will
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Geothermal Crevice
4 Tinder Farm
4 Pillar of Paruns
4 Forbidden Orchard
It's slower than the previous list since no one has haste, but it's more focused on winning a turn after resolving Hypergenesis. The shroud guys have built-in disruption in that you don't need to worry about them getting plowed or anything. Maybe the Unmasks should be Misdirections so the Sovereigns could become Archangels. Hurray for mythic rares.
That list looks pretty solid to me. Anyone playtesting it? Serum Powder would probably be helpful in here. Dunno what to cut though.
I know that it might not be a great suggestion but what about using a card like Scroll Rack with Cascade to make sure that you can hit your Cascade cards or what you want to hit with Cascade. SDT seems like another choice for the slot but Scroll Rack does give the advantage of using cards in your hand to fix the top of your library.
I know it doesn't seem too strong but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.
You're serious???
No. You're best hand will have FoW back up. Waiting 1 turn is worth it. Further, if you somehow fail to resolve your Cascade spell (they Duressed)/Hypergenesis (they successfully counter it, incidently, you'd never counter the Cascade spell, since they all suck, you'd let it resolve, then counter the Hypergenesis), you now have 2 mana sources instead of 1 (so all you need to do is draw 1 more mana source + 1 Cascade spell, not 2 mana sources and 1 Cascade spell). Trust me, the trade off is worth it.
I take it you've never played against combo decks? DoS makes it possible to play a turn 1, 2 or even 3 Hypergenesis and and not lose to "Rit Rit Ad Nauseum Kill You" or "LED, Cephalid Colesium, Crack LED, flashback DA, replace with Dredge, etc, Kill You" or "Turn 1 Nomad En-Kor, Turn 2 Cephalid Illusionist, Kill You (no I don't care you have Progenitus, my guy is a 40 power haste trampler and tramples over all your guys)" etc, etc.
The odds your opponent can play through DoS/Dovescape and still win when you have a Progenitus/Akroma on the board also seem astronomically low (no matter what deck they're playing).
Further, DoS at that point isn't going to counter Humility/Deed/Goyf, they just bust all those permanents into play off your Hypergenesis (so possibly you want to play your own Deeds to handle things they drop in, it still stops the Cephalid Breakfast combo because they still have to resolve Dread Return).
@Blade:
Reflecting Pool is not Legacy playable, and very likely never will be.
I've been playtesting with this list, I hope that some of you will take a look at it and do the same:
This list takes away a bit of the post-hypergenesis explosiveness of previous builds and replaces it with a bunch of dumb creatures with shroud. So that even if you can only get two or... one (although I don't think its often going to be worth it to put one creature down) you can be pretty sure that nothing short of Humility, Wrath or an edict will remove it, unless its Angel of Despair. I wanted to avoid sloppy situations where you drop two creatures and your opponent drops a Sower of Temptation into play. Angel of Despair will take care of that and fundamentally has shroud as far as that is concerned. It can also just entirely negate an opponent's best drop off the Genesis.4 Angel of Despair
2 Empyrial Archangel
4 Simic Sky Swallower
4 Inkwell Leviathan
3 Progenitus
4 Force of Will
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Hypergenesis
4 Violent Outburst
3 Demonic Dread
4 Ardent Plea
Sideboard
4 Reverent Silence/Krosan Grip
4 Form of the Dragon
3 Thunder Dragon
4 Open Slots (Leyline seems like a good option)
Thunder Dragon comes in for Force of Will against any deck that doesn't play cards you care about (Goblins, Zoo, etc.)
@MAster Shake: I definetly think you should cut it down to 2 hypergenesis... After all of my testing it seems like 2 is sufficent. In place of it I would add a set of Unmask or Misdirect while also cutting the fatty count a bit. Protecting your shit is gonna be key in making this deck work.
As I said, it isn't tested yet. I'm not running the same black cards that others are so supporting Unmask seems unlikely. I'll see about fitting Misdirection in.
3 Hypergenesis is there so that I can draw one and still be able to go off twice. I don't want the game to be over after once copy is countered and one is stuck in my hand. Because lets face it, if you suspend this card, its not resolving. It gives them too much time to figure out a way to deal with it.
Would nullstone gargoyle have a place in here? or is just having harder to deal with guys good enough?
I'm not sure if this deck can compete in Legacy, but I'm quite sure I'll see some play in Extended. It's very easy to hate though, since this deck just dies to CotV@0.
Anyone have thoughts on the SB? The problem cards for the deck are most notably Chalice and Counterbalance. Goblins could also be problematic if the list isn't geared to win on the turn you cascade out (which I'm not convinced is should be). Something like:
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Vindicate
4 Firespout
Seems like a decent starting point. There seem to be plenty of solid multicolor options so I'm trying to air in that direction to keep Pillar viable in the main deck.
Eureka gets around Chalice @ 0, Stifle (cascade is a triggered ability), and usually CounterTop. It also doesn't need a target so maybe it's better than Demonic Dread.
just a thought. we can use Supply/Demand. it is multicolor, it pitches to FoW and it can find everything we need but mana: Progenitus, Archangel, Despair, a cascade spell, Maelstrom Pulse/Mortify (both seems better than vindi here, i suppose), Jund Charm (seems more useful than spout) etc. on the other hand it makes us slower a turn and sometimes makes spirit guides quite uneuseful, so dunno.
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