@ profane: It's the god-damns, especially in lists running explorer or STE, and recurring witness/profane has won me many a game, as well as winning goyf battles while resurecting bobs, team fear/drain life 'overrun' effect, ect. I will throw my hat in for fleshbag, he's been great in testing, and is a recurring edict via stronghold or profane (as opposed to diabolic, which is more CB suseptable and can only be recurred by witness) and plays well with explorer. Recurring edicts in several ways has become more important with prognesis and dreadnaughts showing up more and more often.
Originally Posted by cdr
Well with that decklist (and with mine decklist), you can even sacrifice a Tarmogoyf to Cabal, since you have witness+unearth. Doran is good, 5/5 cc3 is always good. And for the Loxodon, well I don't like it, it problably depends from your game style.
Anyway, we already said that that (and mine) decklist is vulnerable to graveyard hate, that's why more discard or pithing needle should probably be added.
Went to a small tournament. 3 rounds.
creature [20]
3 Dark Confidant
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
3 Eternal Witness
3 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Tarmogoyf
instant [4]
4 Swords to Plowshares
sorcery [8]
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate
enchantment [3]
3 Pernicious Deed
artifact [3]
3 Sensei's Divining Top
land [22]
3 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Forest
2 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Windswept Heath
60 cards
Sideboard:
1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Extirpate
3 Krosan Grip
3 Engineered Plague
4 Duress
15 cards
Round vs John with Prog. Thresh
Game 1
I mull to 6. He goes first. Basically I thoughtseize first turn take out goyf. He draws and plays top. We trade his bears for my swords. Eventually he gets a count balance but i get a deed and wipe the cb and wear bear. Eventually i get a top then i draw business from there, he is down to 5 i am at 7. I have Doran out. He then gets a natural order and sacs a moongoose gets progenitus. Before i draw i top, find a Hierarch 3 cards down. Draw that, play that go up to 11 life. He can't attack and i can't really since he is at 5. He gets a goyf then i get another deed. Then draw in to a goyf my self and win. GO Hiearch!!
Game 2
I side in 3 krosan grip and a duress. take out 4 sakura.
He has triple daze and i have triple thoughtseize. Though my thougthseize 2 and 3 resolve. I swords he werebear then vindicate his land then get a beat stick and win.
Round 2 vs Mike with Burn Still
I lose 0-2. Both games he gets 2nd turn standstill. His secret tech was Rolling Earthquake wiping my board sever times while hitting my health for a ton plus main board null rod which kills my senseis top and wins first game with land beats.
Second game i put in 4 duress and 3 engineered Plague and i notice he didnt' side anything so i took out my tops and sarkuras. He runs faiery conclave and mutavault plus mirshras factory. I duress first turn getting rolling earthquake. Second turn duress force of will. then he top decks a stand still . ugh, I have no beaters so i draw a bit but he gets a muatvault and factory down. so i thoughtseize into the standstill. He has lots of business i grab the other standstill. Eventually i sword his factory. He has out fairyconlcave and mutavault i put down Engineered Plague on faierys and a deed. (still no tarmogoyfs or Hierarhcs or dorans. Soon i see a doran but then he rolling earthquakes for 5. two turns later i play witness that gets stifled then he gets a bolt and a rolling earthquake for the win.
Round 3 Chris with goblins.
Game 1
I thoughtseize first turn, he gets me down a bit but i get a deed out. Then loxodon Hierarch then witness back the deed.
I side in 3 plagues.
Game 2
Swords lackey, He is kind land screwd so i vindicate his land, Witness back vindicate then hit his land. Then just run him over.
I end up second place.
Chokes would have been nice in the side. Usually combo shows up and such so that is why i had the extirpates.
Changes would be to add some chokes into the sideboard or find some instant discards ;) for those standstill top decks and add a 4th top.
Last edited by Legacy; 03-16-2009 at 11:45 AM.
PT Junk
Rene Jungbauer
Grand Prix-Chicago
4 thoughtseize
3 vindicate
4 swords to plowshares
4 dark confidant
4 serra avenger
4 tarmogoyf
3 jotun grunt
3 umezawa’s jitte
4 aether vial
4 scrubland
1 volrath’s stronghold
1 bayou
1 savannah
3 plains
3 wasteland
2 swamp
3 polluted delta
3 windswept heath
4 tidehollow sculler
2 krosan grip
Sideboard
2 krosan grip
4 true believer
3 tormod’s crypt
3 engineered explosives
1 jotun grunt
2 diabolic edict
Mira! This is a deck that made day two at the gp. It is alot like rock and alot like fish... two deck s that I love! Im thinking to somehow fit hymms into the list. Turn one vial... turn two hymm... turn three vial in sculler and play confidant ftw.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Hey everybody. I check this board a lot so I finally decided to post in here. I've been playing and tinkering with the Rock for about 3 months now, and this is the finalized version I'm using.
Our metagame is really diverse, and I have done really well there. There are some goblins, lots of takes on blue+ control CB builds, thresh, burn, random aggro, and more. It's all over the map. In about 8 weeks I've played competitively, I've made top 8 5 or 6 times and top 4 once, out of 25-30 players each week. The only real major weaknesses seem to be Wasteland and combo decks.
Here's the latest version:
4x Thoughtseize
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Sakura Tribe Elder
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Vindicate
4x Pernicious Deed
4x Troll Ascetic
2x Eternal Witness
3x Loxodon Hierarch
2x Spiritmonger
2x Volrath's Stronghold
4x Windswept Heath
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Bayou
3x Savannah
2x Scrubland
3x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Plains
SB:
4x Gaddock Teeg
4x Krosan Grip
4x Extirpate
1x Loxodon Hierarch
2x Massacre
I know, no Doran, and 4x Troll Ascetic? I was at 2 of them and 4 Hierarchs. Then I went to 3/3 and cut a basic for a second Stronghold, then went to 61 cards for the last troll. I don't regret it in the least with the environment right now.
Troll has been a house against a lot of decks. It survives the Deed wipe and doesn't get Shackled/Sowered, and blocks rampaging Goyfs that Doran would die to quickly. It's just been amazing for me, although admittedly I'd rather have Doran against Goblins. Most of the goblins I've run into splash white, which is the reason for the Massacres in the board. Gets around Port lock nicely, and most other aggro isn't a big problem except for sui black.
The biggest change I'd like to make is for either one more Eternal Witness or to cram in the fourth Hierarch in, but I don't know what to cut.
Any thoughts/comments/suggestions are welcome. I'll start by saying that combo is the lose, which is why I don't have even more combo hate in the board. Better just shore up the decent matches into great ones.
They're not gonna catch us. We're on a mission from God.
You could remove Gaddock Teeg and Extirpate as I have no idea what they are against. Maybe there's a lot of loam decks and you run Extirpate for that? Even Jotun grunt does better against that deck than Extirpate.
Gaddock Teeg could be replaced by Thorn of Amethyst. It's true that Rock has a bad match up against combo. I managed to get some wins from them though by just using 4 thoughtseize, 4 Thorn and some fast beats.
Also, have you considered playing Dark Confidant? Your average curve seems low enough for it and you also play 3 SDT. Kitchen Finks might also be a contender if you face a lot of agro. Maybe these and Cabal Therapy in the side for combo?
I'm not convinced about Troll Ascetic but if he works for you I'll let it go :).
I was wondering what you guys think about dark blast vs engineered plague. I was playing against this elf deck and they are too quick and a lot of the elves have > 1 toughness. I was just thinking dark blasting their first turn elf then dredge and do in there second turn elf then it would be smooth sailing from there.
Also i was thinking if my opponent was running 4 dark confidant and and 4 tarmogoyf I would side them in as well, kills dark confidant and wins the goyf battles.
As rock players, do we need krosan grip in our side board?? I ask because we have 3-4 vindicate and 3-4 pernicious deeds. Isn't that enough to get around say counter balance because of the 3cc.
thanks
Personally I run engineered plague in my meta primarily for Merfolk, which Darkblast isn't all that helpful against. Plague is also good agains Counterslivers, Goblins, and Elfball, even though it is slow at three mana. IMO it has alot more S/B uses than Darkblast does.
Krosan Grip is just great for getting under FoW / Daze in decks like Dreadstill and NLU.
I keep noticing that more and more people are playing 2 and 3 mana cost for Counterbalance. If those two are on top I have to rely on 5 other cards in my entire deck. I'll stay with Grip for now.As rock players, do we need krosan grip in our side board?? I ask because we have 3-4 vindicate and 3-4 pernicious deeds. Isn't that enough to get around say counter balance because of the 3cc.
Okay, I went T8 again with my BG Rock deck a few weeks back (had the report typed in Word, but forgot to post it...) on the 15th of March.
So here go's :)
Decklist:
B/G The Rock:
Main Deck:
3x Sensei’s Divining
2x Tombstalker
3x Eternal Witness
2x Krosan Tusker
3x Ravenous Baloth
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Pernicious Deed
3x Smother
3x Putrefy
4x Bayou
3x Bloodstained Mire
4x Forest Land
3x Swamp
1x Volrath’s Stronghold
4x Wasteland
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Duress
1x Profane Command
4x Thoughtseize
Sideboard
2x Tormod’s Crypt
4x Engineered Plague
3x Choke
3x Extirpate
3x Krosan Grip
Round 1: Tom with 4c-thresh
G1: this is a really long drawn out game (in the end SDT makes him look at half his deck...), we really go back and forth, whith balloth and his plow ginving me life while he keeps oon putting anoying stuf like goyf, bob and trygon on the board... eventually I win, but since there's onlly 3 minutes left in the round (and I'm allowed to shuffle 3 minutes) We don't get to play game 2. The game wasn't difficult, but i just couldn't find threat's enough (short of 2 balloth+stronghold but they kept on dodging plow's or chumping bigger goyfs and bashing stupid kitchen finks' until i found removal/whitnesed the removal back...)
Round 2: Melvin with UBg Tempo-thresh/Team America hybrid
G1: I start whith T1 top, T2 sakura, but then sakura gets stifles, my lands get wastelanded and sinkholed, and my deck doesnt give me anny land...
G2: We get into the game, but he resolves a early tombstalker, and i dont find an answer in time...
Round 3: Some guy playing Elf-Glimpse
G1: I lose bigtime since he kept on topdecking everything I made him discard and combo's out on turn 3...
G2: Get plague down, he grips, I witnes and replay, he plays champion, I smother it, i discard his sentinel and extirpate it, continu to discard and extirpate a gelimpse and it's GG (I didn't find any creature the entire game short of witnes)
G3: he gets a slow start, I get to go pretty fast with sakura and a shitload of pinpoint removal, eventually get donw some fat (balloths, goyfs,...) while I whitnes back my removal...
Round 4: Rb Goblin:
G1: i get a slow start (no sakura or top) and he gets the nuts (lackey, into a lot of green men) you do the math...
G2: I get down a turn 3 plague, topdeck some more and he concedes while balloth stare's at him
G3: he's manascrewed and me putrefying his vial didn't help him while i had deed+plague in the board
After the game he said his only chance of getting rid of plague was cabal therapy (witch he used 1 turn to soon, because I topdecked it just after he played it...)
Round 5: Stupid Burn
G1: play thoughtseize and take fireblast, he kills me before I get balloth down
G2: mull into balloth, duress a fireblast, extirpate it (he was holding another one and apparently topdecked another), play balloth, find stronghold in time and win from there.
G3: my opening hand is Sakura, forest, swamp, bayou and all of my 3 balloth's... he didn't stand a chance...
Round 6: ID and on to the T8
T8: Ilja playing his home brew welder survival build
G1: I steamroll him with goyfs, balloth's and tombstalker, while deed make sure he doesn't get to keep a lot in play...
G2: he just goes broken with T1 survival, T2 chain into welder, + anger+big robot and yeah...
G3: I thoughtseize, he doesn't have survival (take whatever), he topdecks survival, I grip, he topdecks whitnes, OK GG he goes nuts again...
Props:
3 people from our team getting into T8
Engineered plague for ruling 2 times :D
Ravenous balloth for being so badass :D
The really fun game against Tom.
Slop's:
Playing against our teammate Ilja in the first round of the T8
2 teammates getting paired against each other while both having to win to get in the T8...
God-awfull sandwiches.
Atm I'm testing haunting echoes in the profane command slot because in testing the Uw landstill matchup really is a bitch, and resolving the echoes is just an oops I win against them...
I see some deck lists running SDT. Hows has that been working out?
Pretty damn good, it give's this deck decent card selection in combination with all the shuffle effects.
With dark confidant it get's even better :)
I'm trying to adjust my Wish-Rock deck to make it more competitive for tournament play, though I am wondering if it is a lost cause or not.
http://www.essentialmagic.com/Decks/View.asp?ID=605483
I use this site for modifying the deck.
I'm playing a more controlish version with no acceleration. I just don't like it when I draw Birds late game. I also like having more lands so I don't get manascrewed.
Here's the list:
// Lands
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
5 [A] Swamp (1)
4 [A] Bayou
4 [A] Scrubland
1 [A] Plains (2)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [A] Forest (2)
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [FUT] Tombstalker
1 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower
4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
// Spells
4 [AP] Vindicate
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
The Qasali Pridemage have been excellent thus far. Along with Vindicate, EE, Deed and Swords to Plowshares you can answer pretty much anything on the board. I was playing Tidehollow Sculler in its spot but once again the Sculler was a bad topdeck when the opponent didn't have a hand. At least Qasali beats for 3 or makes another creature bigger and wins Goyf wars.
The Doran might seem random but that was Tombstalker #3 which I changed for Doran because of Confidant issues.
Comments?
w/o cabal therapy, why run unearth?
i would run vindicate over deeds and just glittering wish into deeds if needed.
My 12 Post Videos - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...Q65OWRL5my7utn
1. I hate the randomness of cabal. I run into a lot of random jank and rogue decks. I'd rather use duress.
2. I can infinite chump-block with a witness using Unearth.
I currently lack vindicate, though Maelstorm Pulse should be a suitable filler if need be.i would run vindicate over deeds and just glittering wish into deeds if needed.
Made top-4 split with this deck again last night. Only change was -1 Gaddock Teeg, +1 Massacre on the board. I took off a few weeks to play Stax while it was combo and zoo city, but after the Counterbalance stuff came back I had to bust out the Rock again.
Match 1, Zombie tribal. This was a really close match.
Game 1 he gets Dark Ritual into Graveborn Muse and plays lots of dudes with a couple of lords. He gets me down to 4 before I Deed the board and get 2 Loxodon Hierarchs and replay one dead one off of Eternal Witness to win.
Game 2 he gets 2nd turn Graveborn again, but I get multiple swords and deed the board again. Troll Ascetic wrecks all his spot removal.
1-0
Match 2, Goyf Sligh.
Game 1 he gets 11 lands and I swords a creature in response to Price of Progress. If I remember right, it was lethal to both of us before Swords.
Game 2 2x Price of Progress and a Fireblast I think, after a few burns earlier. I don't remember the exact combination that did it, but it was like 16 points in a turn.
Game 3 I'm at 9, play Loxodon Hierarch with 3 non-basics out, he plays double Price in response.
1-1
Match 3, Re-Animator
Game 1 he reanimates something big and shroudy. Empyrial Archangel maybe, but I can't remember.
Game 2 I Extirpate his first target and hit one of the reanimate effects.
Game 3 he Show and Tells in Twilight Shepherd, but he read it wrong and doesn't get the crazy bombs in out of his graveyard. I sword it and swing for lethal with 2x Troll Ascetic and the Loxodon Hierarch that I put into play with his Show and Tell.
2-1
Match 4, Gamekeeper Salvagers combo
Game 1 he's totally mana-screwed. I think he got a plains and I vindicated it.
Game 2 I extirpate a bunch of stuff and Swords his Gamekeepers before he can get the combo going.
3-1
Match 5, Enchantress
Game 1 he gets mana screwed, which I make worse with 2-3 Vindicates (I think it was 2 plus Eternal Witness), Deed the board away and swing.
Game 2 I kill Enchantress turn 2 with Massacre (!!), play dudes, Vindicate and K-Grip multiple things and end up Extirpating Solitary Confinement in reponse to Sterling Grove activation. He gets Karmic Justice but I swing for lethal in 2 more turns anyway.
4-1
Top-8, Counterbalance control with Dark Confidant and Daze
Game 1 he mulligans and misses first land drop. I Thoughtseize and see 4x Force of Will, Dark Confidant and something else. Krosan Grip I think. I take the Bob and decide to 2 for 1 him on the Forces. Creatures do it over the next couple of turns. He scoops after I resolve Spiritmonger.
Game 2 This was a really good game. I got multiple Grip/Vindicate/Deed and get around Counterbalance most of the time, but he keeps swiping my dudes with Shackles and Sowers. In the end I Extirpate Top, Sower and Swords to Plowshares, and he ends up scooping once I play Sakura Tribe Elder which makes exactly lethal the next turn.
Top 4 split and I got some new sleeves and Aggro Loam stuff with the winnings. :)
They're not gonna catch us. We're on a mission from God.
Has anyone tried to implement Pridemages into this deck?
To weak and unnecessary, every creature (aside from STE but he serves his purpose) needs to make a serious impact on the game or put the opponent on a quick clock. While the utility is great, it is largely unneeded in a deck that can now run 8x Vindicates and 4x Deed!
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
i would almost consider it 16x Vindicate, because :
4x Vindicate
4x Mortify
4x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Putrify
although i would never run all 16, and probably no more than 10
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