[Deck] Solidarity

[GreenOne]

Wow. Thank you for that.

That is going to take me a while to absorb. Some of it I don't even understand, which probably means that I need to become far more familiar with the stack rules. The trouble with having played since Revised is that you don't notice some of the subtle rule changes.

No problem. Just ask if something doesn't become clear.

[MSC]

- Brain Freeze + Flash of Insight = Brain freeze can be actually be used as a draw spell if you lack some. Target yourself with freeze until you mill a Flash of Insight, then (with other copies of Brain Freeze on stack), flashback Flash of Insight to take a meditate/cunning wish. Often you'll have a big enough graveyard to allow you to stack your entire deck as you please, ensuring your win. Remember that the original copy of Brain Freeze resolve last, so you can keep it on the stack until you find a remand to target it and play it on your opponent.

Please remember, that you have to declare targets for the Spell and all Copys as they go on the Stack.
I had a Match versus a Solidarity Player once, where he wanted to decide the Targets on resolution, so he could find Flash of Insight and then set the Rest of the copys on me...

[Fons]

I once milled myself for 9 and got my flash of insight but lost all three of my cunning wishes, it was a sad day.

[Silent Requiem]

I'll add some more to what you've said:
- Brain Freeze + Remand = Tech

Let me be sure I understand this. You cast Brain Freeze and the storm copies are generated (lets say 5 of them). Those 5 copies resolve in due course, at which time (when you have priority) you cast Remand, targeting the original Brain Freeze. When Remand resolves (because it is on the stack above the Brain Freeze), the Freeze is countered back to your hand, so you can cast it again. Which is awesome.

So my only remaining question on this point is this: do those 5 copies of the original Brain Freeze increase the storm count for the second casting of the Freeze?

- Brainstorm + Brain Freeze = Shuffle effect. Just target yourself with a couple of copies of brain freeze and your opponent with the others, and you suddenly made your 2x brainstorm in hand like Ancestral Recalls.

Having reviewed the new rules on the stack, I now understand this. It's amazing how things have changed. Back when I started playing, once things started resolving you had to let the whole chain unravel.

- Brain Freeze + Flash of Insight = Brain freeze can be actually be used as a draw spell if you lack some. Target yourself with freeze until you mill a Flash of Insight, then (with other copies of Brain Freeze on stack), flashback Flash of Insight to take a meditate/cunning wish. Often you'll have a big enough graveyard to allow you to stack your entire deck as you please, ensuring your win. Remember that the original copy of Brain Freeze resolve last, so you can keep it on the stack until you find a remand to target it and play it on your opponent.

One of the posters above answered the question I had on this one. It's a bit of a gamble, as you have to decide in advance how many Freezes you target yourself with, but I suppose it would mostly be used in emergencies.

- Remand + Opponent's spell = this seems obvious, but many times you're going off with some opponent's spell on the stack (discard, counterbalance, etc), so in real games you probably just need to target your opponent's spell with remand instead of yours, making it more mana efficient as a cantrip.

Good point. That simply hadn't come up in my goldfishing (for obvious reasons).

- Turnabout = Stroke. This is not always true, but happens quite often. When facing lethal damage on the table, you can go off in the "beginning of combat" step, so your opponent can't cast other creatures and has not declared (tapped) attackers yet. This way you can win by milling your opponent and Turnabout opponent's creatures, without needing to stroke.

Another good point.

- Remand + Our spells: When the opponent counters a spell (usually tide), you have the option to just remand it and go off next turn. with less counters and the same number of cards in hand.

I had assumed that an opponent would wait until we had commited some resources to the fight before countering. That being the case, I would have thought the Reset was the card to counter. Do people actually intend to counter the High Tide?

On a related note, if I play a Brain Freeze (generating 5 copies), and then someone counters the original Brain Freeze, if the counter resolves do I lose just the one Brain Freeze, or all of them?

-Silent Requiem

[Taurelin]

So my only remaining question on this point is this: do those 5 copies of the original Brain Freeze increase the storm count for the second casting of the Freeze?

Unfortunately, they don't because they are not "played" but simply "put on the stack". Still, the trick with Remand reduces the number of spells necessary. Compare this:

16 spells + Brain Freeze = 17*3 = 51 cards
7 spells + Brain Freeze + Remand + Brain Freeze = 7*3 + 10*3 = 51 cards

On a related note, if I play a Brain Freeze (generating 5 copies), and then someone counters the original Brain Freeze, if the counter resolves do I lose just the one Brain Freeze, or all of them?

Just the one, the copies remain. With Stifle/Trickbind, however, the opponent can avoid all those storm copies by neutralizing the storm-trigger.

[Bahamuth]

Different people will counter different spells. Luckily, you can easily play through either. When they counter a Tide, you can Remand (since it's generally the first spell). When they counter something after the Tide (Meditate is a target often enough), you have tons of mana to respond.

[TimeTwister]

Ahoi,

just some corrections ...

One of the posters above answered the question I had on this one. It's a bit of a gamble, as you have to decide in advance how many Freezes you target yourself with, but I suppose it would mostly be used in emergencies.

In general you will target with all copies yourself, but they can be resolved seperatly, so that you can decide how often you will put 3 cards in your graveyard (if possible let the original brain freece on stack to reuse it with remand). Because you are the player with only instants, you could just play further with the remaining copies on the stack.

7 spells + Brain Freeze + Remand + Brain Freeze = 7*3 + 10*3 = 51 cards

7 spells + Brain Freeze = 8 x 3 (because the original Brain Freeze puts also 3 cards in the graveyard)
7 spells + Brain Freeze + Remand + Brain Freeze = 10 x 3 (correct)


salute
TimeTwister

[GreenOne]

With Stifle/Trickbind, however, the opponent can avoid all those storm copies by neutralizing the storm-trigger.

In this case remember that with Trickbind they just counter the storm trigger, but the original spell of Brain Freeze is still on stack, so you have a chance of remanding it and replay it.

7 spells + Brain Freeze = 8 x 3 (because the original Brain Freeze puts also 3 cards in the graveyard)

Not really: the original Brain Freeze gets countered by your remand, so it's (7+10)x3=51.

[TimeTwister]

Not really: the original Brain Freeze gets countered by your remand, so it's (7+10)x3=51.

Argh ... sorry ... I should think before I write something ...


salute
TimeTwister

[Zinch]

And don't forget that if you play Cryptic Command, you can also tap your opponents creatures with it

[Julian23]

I'm doing some goldfishin' right now and encountered some opening hands which make me wonder whether to keep or mull. What would you do with the following against an unknownn opponent?

2x Meditate, Turnabout, Flash, FoW, 2x Island

Somehow I don't feel very comfortable keeping it.
Another thought I had while walking home from university today: Since goldfishing seems to pay off more with Solidarity than it does with most decks maybe some of you guys could upload a youtube video of some goldfishing action. You know, explaining how you would play certain hands. I don't wanna urge anybody to do so but I think me and a lot of other Solidarity apprentices would greatly appreciate this! :-)

[Mikeleroi]

Anybody has tried gigadrowse? Other day tried it against a friend and well... it is not so bad

[cjva]

2x Meditate, Turnabout, Flash, FoW, 2x Island

hmm.... yea, its one of the more scetchy hands. I usualy dont play against opponents where i do not have info on what deck they play.

Here's how i whould reason around this hand.

you have 2/3's of the combo at hand. (meditate and turnabout)
you have a FoW as protection against early threats.
you have 2 islands.

you are likely to draw into either more lands so you can play meditate EoT or cantrips.

I whould probably keep this hand.

[Bahamuth]

I would mull if I know I'll have to win early. I'll probably also mull if I'm on the play.

[konjink]

Hi everyone, this is my first post .

My MTG experience has been much like Silent Requiem's. Started with vintage, but got tired of not having the $$ for P9.

Anyways, I too have been looking for a deck that suits me. My first inclination was towards ANT, but the more I read about Solidarity, the more I seem to like it. I really like how you "go off" when you have too, rather than ASAP. I also like how (from what I've read) there doesn't seem to be any extremely bad MUs (apart from dredge maybe). I know Bahamuth said each game is going to be a challenge, but that, to me, makes it fun (as long as I know the game is winnable).

My question is, if I were to start playing Solidarity, should I go the Van Phanel route, or Bahamuth's route with g splash and Brain Freeze in SB?

Also, how necessary is Hydroblast for red matchups (mainly goblins)?

Sorry if those are newbie questions...

[Van Phanel]

My question is, if I were to start playing Solidarity, should I go the Van Phanel route, or Bahamuth's route with g splash and Brain Freeze in SB?

Also, how necessary is Hydroblast for red matchups (mainly goblins)?

Sorry if those are newbie questions...

- To learn playing the deck I'd go with deep6er's old maindeck (see opening post). Cryptic Command is something I added as a catch-all card which I felt was necessary.

- Splashing for Krosan Grip ist strictly a metagamecall which I personally don't see as necessary, but I wouldn't advise against it as I never got to actually testing it.

- Brain Freeze in the sideboard is a wasted slot in my opinion, but feel free trying it.

- Goblins is an ugly matchup as they are fast and usually have nonred disruption postboard which means that Hydroblat only helps at giving you time. I can see 2 Hydroblast as additional outs to Lackey, but I wouldn't play more than that. In fact I'm still searching for a good sideboardplan against goblins. For Burn, Disrupt is easily enough and Goyfsligh is generally not fast enough.

[konjink]

Thanks for your response. I have a couple more questions:

Which matchups does repeal help against?

Have you found mystical in the SB useful?

[GoldenCid]

Some questions from a noob:

1- How does this deck solves the problem of a gaea's blessing / colossus in opponent's deck?

2- A plan B is not needed??

[Taurelin]

Didn't you read the opening post in the first place?

How to play around Gaea's Blessing?

Even nowadays, many people believe they have an autowin against Solidarity if they sideboard Gaea's Blessing. They are wrong, as Gaea's Blessing triggers when it is milled and you can respond with another Brain Freeze (possibly by using Remand on the first one) and a lethal Stroke of Genius. In fact, Gaea's Blessing is not very good against Solidarity, as you can play around it late in the combo when your hand is filled with good cards, as opposed to cards like Chalice of the Void or Meddling Mage which try to stop the combo before it begins.

Same works for Colossus, Progenitus etc.

[Van Phanel]

@ konjink:

Repeal is my 15th sideboardslot at the moment. In tournaments I always felt that three Wipe Away were too much and two Wipe Away wasn't enough against Counterbalance thus I added Repeal which can also be boarded in any non-CB matchup where the opponent plays some number of relevant targets. I don't like Repeal very much, but can't think of something better for that slot and I like it more than the third Wipe Away.

Mystical has been very useful if only for flexibility reasons. For me, preboard it primarily works as an additional way to find High Tide. I've only had to use it once for getting Brain Freeze and that was when comboing on turn 2. Postboard is another story. It gets boarded in against all kinds of aggro to make the deck slightly faster and against all kinds of combo as additional way to find Twincast or Force of Will (or Echoing Truth if they play ETW).


@GoldenCid:

No, a plan B is neither needed nor viable. As we are playing Cunning Wish we simply can't afford enough sideboardslots for a real plan B and most kinds of plan B would still lose to Tarmogoyfs in a damage race. Better focus on the combo.