[Deck] Non-LED Based Dredge/Ichorid Combo

[rbpong721]

@ Pulp: I'll be playing against Scepter/Chant, Goblins, MetaTog (some strange version of Psychatog), Boros Deck Wins, MB Zombies, Painter, and two rogue aggro; one is RG Aggro, other BG Aggro. Both RG and BG aggro contains a whole lot of "Shrouded" creatures or "creatures that cannot be the target of spells or abilites". The BG aggro and Zombies will contain a lot of discard.

My sideboard is pretty much the same as your deck list.


Have you tried Street Wraith out in place of 3x Dark Blast?
What is the ideal amount of cards you want to mull to if you have to?

[Joe_C]

@ Pulp: I'll be playing against Scepter/Chant, Goblins, MetaTog (some strange version of Psychatog), Boros Deck Wins, MB Zombies, Painter, and two rogue aggro; one is RG Aggro, other BG Aggro. Both RG and BG aggro contains a whole lot of "Shrouded" creatures or "creatures that cannot be the target of spells or abilites". The BG aggro and Zombies will contain a lot of discard.

My sideboard is pretty much the same as your deck list.


Have you tried Street Wraith out in place of 3x Dark Blast?
What is the ideal amount of cards you want to mull to if you have to?

if he removed the blasts he would only be running 8 dredgers, which would be really too low. Ive been running 4 thugs (total of 12 dredgers) and I have loved them. They bring back moebas/imps/tribes when cast then sacced to therapy or chumpblocking. I find it important to have a steady amount of ichorid food, many games have been woon due to me taking 2 ichorids into play on turn 2 and dread returning sage to get into the win...

[bum_man]

Whether to run darkblasts or thugs is a meta-game call, imo. Back when I ran 11 Dredgers, I usually interchange 3 for 3 thugs depending on what decks i see playing before the tournament. Darkblasts are better in metagames with a lot of red or black. These metagames has alot of fanatics, jailers and a number of other problematic creatures that can hamper the decks game plan. These stop or slow down the deck in match-ups where the combo and generally, speed is going to be a factor. Recurring Ichorids isn't that strong here because most of the time Ichorid will just become the last creature needed to D'return into the combo.

Thugs on the other hand, imo, are much better in metagames full of blue. Darkblasts aren't as strong in these metagames because there aren't a lot of creatures it can kill. More importantly, the combo plan isn't as strong against blue and permission because it is unlikely that they'll let you combo out. In this metagame where the slow and aggro beats plan is more or else your gameplan, Thugs are the superior dredgers.

Try testing out what build is better where you play. Joe and Pulp's list are doing great because they play configurations that work best where they play. I'm still testing out what list is best for my metagame since it is diverse with a lot of red, black and blue. @_@ Given the decks you mentioned above i believe darkblasts would be better since almost all of those are decks you have to race. That's how i'd play it at least. Do try to see what works better. ^^

[rbpong721]

if he removed the blasts he would only be running 8 dredgers, which would be really too low. Ive been running 4 thugs (total of 12 dredgers) and I have loved them. They bring back moebas/imps/tribes when cast then sacced to therapy or chumpblocking. I find it important to have a steady amount of ichorid food, many games have been woon due to me taking 2 ichorids into play on turn 2 and dread returning sage to get into the win...

This is very true. I replaced Pulp's 3x DB, with 3x Wraith and was wondering why I did not have enough dredgers. You sure solved that problem. So far I have 11 dredgers, 4x GTG, 4x Imp, and 3x Thug which seems to be working out fine so far.

Whether to run darkblasts or thugs is a meta-game call, imo. Back when I ran 11 Dredgers, I usually interchange 3 for 3 thugs depending on what decks i see playing before the tournament. Darkblasts are better in metagames with a lot of red or black. These metagames has alot of fanatics, jailers and a number of other problematic creatures that can hamper the decks game plan. These stop or slow down the deck in match-ups where the combo and generally, speed is going to be a factor. Recurring Ichorids isn't that strong here because most of the time Ichorid will just become the last creature needed to D'return into the combo.

Thugs on the other hand, imo, are much better in metagames full of blue. Darkblasts aren't as strong in these metagames because there aren't a lot of creatures it can kill. More importantly, the combo plan isn't as strong against blue and permission because it is unlikely that they'll let you combo out. In this metagame where the slow and aggro beats plan is more or else your gameplan, Thugs are the superior dredgers.

Try testing out what build is better where you play. Joe and Pulp's list are doing great because they play configurations that work best where they play. I'm still testing out what list is best for my metagame since it is diverse with a lot of red, black and blue. @_@ Given the decks you mentioned above i believe darkblasts would be better since almost all of those are decks you have to race. That's how i'd play it at least. Do try to see what works better. ^^

This helped a lot as well, thanks. Considering my meta I'll certainly run DB over thugs. I'm still confident I can get past Scepter/Chant with Needles. But I have a feeling needles may not be enough and I'll either resort to Null Rod or CotV at 0 and Needle on Scepter. Needle targets will depend on what I see from the first couple of turns and the hate of their choice.

Are their any other colored mana land producers besides the ones we're using? Sometimes it seems I never draw City of Brass and all the counters on Gemstone Mine get used up leaving me with no land.

Another problem I face is when to dredge? For example I have three Dredgers in gy, with Breakthrough in hand. Should I play Breakthrough and dredge the three or should I wait for that fourth dredger to land in gy then dredge? Also, for the first three or so turns, do you guys normally use your draw step to dredge or draw? Or would it depend on your hand and the situation of the game?

[Joe_C]

Another problem I face is when to dredge? For example I have three Dredgers in gy, with Breakthrough in hand. Should I play Breakthrough and dredge the three or should I wait for that fourth dredger to land in gy then dredge? Also, for the first three or so turns, do you guys normally use your draw step to dredge or draw? Or would it depend on your hand and the situation of the game?

If you have 1 dredger in your grave, you should breakthrough. Any dredge cards you put into the grave from your first dredge can be used to fulfill breathrough's draw 4 cards. ie. I cast breakthrough with a 1 troll in the grave, (use 1 replacement from breathrough), and my six cards are land, land, stinkweed, moeba,thug, study, I can replace the next draw with one of the dredgers I just placed from dredging troll.... that is why this deck is so busted

[bum_man]

This helped a lot as well, thanks. Considering my meta I'll certainly run DB over thugs. I'm still confident I can get past Scepter/Chant with Needles. But I have a feeling needles may not be enough and I'll either resort to Null Rod or CotV at 0 and Needle on Scepter. Needle targets will depend on what I see from the first couple of turns and the hate of their choice.

I haven't tested this match-up yet but it seems interesting though. You generally have more or less 3 turns to race them. Before they get their iso-chants online. This is pre-board at least.

Are their any other colored mana land producers besides the ones we're using? Sometimes it seems I never draw City of Brass and all the counters on Gemstone Mine get used up leaving me with no land.

I run 1 tarnished citadel and 1 undiscovered paradise as my 13th and 14th lands. These are the two other rainbow lands that was discussed before that could see play as additional lands for the deck. Their drawbacks suck though, Pulp i think ran 2 citadels in those slots. Im still planning to test that out because the as much as i hate timewalking myself through paradise, citadel's lifeloss can be relevant where i play. Orchard is also an option though but do you really want to give them one more way to remove your bridges? Do try to mull into workable hands with at least one land, outlet, dredger at the very least. if you need more lands to work with you can always not dredge on your draw phase to try to get some lands.

Another problem I face is when to dredge? For example I have three Dredgers in gy, with Breakthrough in hand. Should I play Breakthrough and dredge the three or should I wait for that fourth dredger to land in gy then dredge?

This deck can run on at least 1 dredger in the yard, of course you do have to hope to dredge into more dredgers though. Given one dredger in the yard, in your second turn, you have more or less at 19% chance that your top deck is a dredger and for every card you mill that is not a dredger your chances of hitting a dredger on the next card increases by .5%. But since this deck relies on random dredges it often sucks-out and runs out of gas. 3 Dredgers in the yard while playing breakthrough more or less make sure you hit a 4th one, then you win. 2 Dredgers are more or less the safe count in going-off especially if one them is a grave-troll.

Also, for the first three or so turns, do you guys normally use your draw step to dredge or draw? Or would it depend on your hand and the situation of the game?

Yup I think this depends on who you are playing against and what hand you have. Aside from the outlet, land and dredger which is the minumum requirement for keeping a hand, you also need a draw spell as an engine in dredging. Against decks i have to race i usually draw for my first 2 turns if I don't hit a draw spell, this is when i start dredging. I'm not really sure if this is the right thing to do though. Against blue, you generally draw asap. You really want to dredge as soon as possible hoping to hit ichorids because they are the MVP of these match-ups. Whether to dredge or to draw is one of the more difficult parts in playing dredge imo, but basically just look at your hand and ask yourself if you're lacking something, a land or draw spell usually, at times another dredger or outlet. Let's just wait for Joe_C's or Pulp_Fiction's replies, they have better inputs about this since they have more experience with the deck ^^

[Pulp_Fiction]

Pulp, not to critique too much since obviously your deck is performing for you, but how do you feel about all of the 3 of's in your list?

I am very satisfied with all the 3-ofs. I never liked 4 Ichorid and the rest of everything else just works great! 3x Breakthrough just feels right since you can aggressively mull into it and you won't have to many dead draws (if it comes to that) against counters.

@rbpong721: Against all those decks it looks like Pithing Needle would help the most. If everyone in your meta is running 2/2 Crypt/Relic then just play Ingot Chewer in the board over Chain of Vapor. I would not advise this unless Darkblast is in the main though to deal with Jailer and other annoying creatures. I could potentially see 4x Wispmare against the black aggro for Leyline but thats about it. Particularly against scepter chant, I would just board in the 4 Needle but you could also put in 2x CoV if they are bringing in multiple hate cards.

Regarding mulligans, it depends on what you are up against. I mull aggressive as hell against everything but I am always looking for specific cards. Against combo game 1 I am looking for expolsive starts and Cabal Therapy, Goblins I'm looking for Darkblast, etc. But to answer the question, keep whatever kind of hand you think has potential. I mulligan a lot more than most people do because I am never going to rely on the deck to draw whats necessary its all about getting a decent opening hand. I have no reservations about going down to 4 cards trying to get a decent hand. I would not mulligan down to much lower than 5 cards against blue control though since they usually give you ample setup time and you can just draw, dredge, discard and repeat (I have won a few games against mono-u without ever casting a spell). So mulligan very aggressively and as common sense as this sounds it is vital, know the kind of hand you want against your opponent and get it, or keep the closest thing. Just always ask yourself "is this hand better than a random hand with 1 less card in it?"

[Joe_C]

List for discussion:

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Tarnished Citadel

4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
4 Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Putrid Imp

2 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
3 Breakthrough
3 Unmask
2 Darkblast
3 Careful Study

Things I like about this:

1. Unmask is just a really good card. With the addition of a few more black cards instead of running tribe. I increase my chances of using it effectively turn 1. Decks are running maindecked relic more than ever, yanking it from their hand turn 1 makes me smile. Also lets not forget you can unmask yourself if you know you are not playing against control to get a dredger into your grave and breakthrough that turn.

2. 14 Dredgers. Often I get hands that are amazing but lack a dredger, this should remedy this problem.

3. 13 lands. May not be enough, but I like the feel so far. I could always run the 14th in the board

Things Im undecided whether I like or not:

1. lack of tireless tribe. Sure, its a 2 of in my list normally, giving it up for 2 darkblasts seems reasonable enough. We will see how much I miss that discard outlet after some serious testing

2. 2 dread return/ 1 sage. Back to this one again. I know the 3/2 split works great at times, i think i would rather have my opening grip look better to me by having unmask/blast than to hope to dredge into this. Thats the thing with this deck, we want things in our hand, and in our grave(have cake and eat it too? )

thats what Ive got for now. If others want to help me run some games with this configuration, any additional feedback you guys can provide is appreciated

[Raptor]

List for discussion:

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Tarnished Citadel

4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
4 Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Putrid Imp

2 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
3 Breakthrough
3 Unmask
2 Darkblast
3 Careful Study

Things I like about this:

1. Unmask is just a really good card. With the addition of a few more black cards instead of running tribe. I increase my chances of using it effectively turn 1. Decks are running maindecked relic more than ever, yanking it from their hand turn 1 makes me smile. Also lets not forget you can unmask yourself if you know you are not playing against control to get a dredger into your grave and breakthrough that turn.

2. 14 Dredgers. Often I get hands that are amazing but lack a dredger, this should remedy this problem.

3. 13 lands. May not be enough, but I like the feel so far. I could always run the 14th in the board

Things Im undecided whether I like or not:

1. lack of tireless tribe. Sure, its a 2 of in my list normally, giving it up for 2 darkblasts seems reasonable enough. We will see how much I miss that discard outlet after some serious testing

2. 2 dread return/ 1 sage. Back to this one again. I know the 3/2 split works great at times, i think i would rather have my opening grip look better to me by having unmask/blast than to hope to dredge into this. Thats the thing with this deck, we want things in our hand, and in our grave(have cake and eat it too? )

thats what Ive got for now. If others want to help me run some games with this configuration, any additional feedback you guys can provide is appreciated

Just wondering, in what kind of meta are you playing in ?
Personally, I don't think I should run this list for the simple fact of the ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh and control dominant meta that I am in. Having a PImp Force'd seems kind of desatrous for this deck (assuming you don't start so you can't unmask him).

Personally, I think you might have some problem with running a "slower" Ichorid then it is with the previous list because we lack the explosiveness of the LED.

But eh, that's only my opinion, and I'm not a pro with dredges ;)
I'll most likely post the list that I'll be running tomorrow at a 30ish men tournament. Let me know if you want me to do a report !

[rbpong721]

If you have 1 dredger in your grave, you should breakthrough. Any dredge cards you put into the grave from your first dredge can be used to fulfill breathrough's draw 4 cards. ie. I cast breakthrough with a 1 troll in the grave, (use 1 replacement from breathrough), and my six cards are land, land, stinkweed, moeba,thug, study, I can replace the next draw with one of the dredgers I just placed from dredging troll.... that is why this deck is so busted

Ah so that's the key. I was wondering if I was able to dredge cards that I get off another dredge if I still have the chance to draw. That answers that question.

I haven't tested this match-up yet but it seems interesting though. You generally have more or less 3 turns to race them. Before they get their iso-chants online. This is pre-board at least.

I run 1 tarnished citadel and 1 undiscovered paradise as my 13th and 14th lands. These are the two other rainbow lands that was discussed before that could see play as additional lands for the deck. Their drawbacks suck though, Pulp i think ran 2 citadels in those slots. Im still planning to test that out because the as much as i hate timewalking myself through paradise, citadel's lifeloss can be relevant where i play. Orchard is also an option though but do you really want to give them one more way to remove your bridges? Do try to mull into workable hands with at least one land, outlet, dredger at the very least. if you need more lands to work with you can always not dredge on your draw phase to try to get some lands.

This deck can run on at least 1 dredger in the yard, of course you do have to hope to dredge into more dredgers though. Given one dredger in the yard, in your second turn, you have more or less at 19% chance that your top deck is a dredger and for every card you mill that is not a dredger your chances of hitting a dredger on the next card increases by .5%. But since this deck relies on random dredges it often sucks-out and runs out of gas. 3 Dredgers in the yard while playing breakthrough more or less make sure you hit a 4th one, then you win. 2 Dredgers are more or less the safe count in going-off especially if one them is a grave-troll.




Yup I think this depends on who you are playing against and what hand you have. Aside from the outlet, land and dredger which is the minumum requirement for keeping a hand, you also need a draw spell as an engine in dredging. Against decks i have to race i usually draw for my first 2 turns if I don't hit a draw spell, this is when i start dredging. I'm not really sure if this is the right thing to do though. Against blue, you generally draw asap. You really want to dredge as soon as possible hoping to hit ichorids because they are the MVP of these match-ups. Whether to dredge or to draw is one of the more difficult parts in playing dredge imo, but basically just look at your hand and ask yourself if you're lacking something, a land or draw spell usually, at times another dredger or outlet. Let's just wait for Joe_C's or Pulp_Fiction's replies, they have better inputs about this since they have more experience with the deck ^^

Yea pre-board it's a big race, that's why I liked Pulp's list because it was very consistent. I'm still not a 100% on pre-board and was considering Unmask, but honestly I have no idea what I'd take out. I thought about Orchard, but giving my opponent a chance to win game 1 is not something I'd be into. Ok, so that's what I'm mostly looking for in a hand, thank you. Yea I've noticed I run out of a steam sometimes and trying to get that steam rolling again is a bit tough, but fighting through Relics and Crypts must be even more challenging. So Ichroid is the one I'm looking to get on the board in control match ups, I could see how he would present a lot of problems and put pressure on control to react or die.

I am very satisfied with all the 3-ofs. I never liked 4 Ichorid and the rest of everything else just works great! 3x Breakthrough just feels right since you can aggressively mull into it and you won't have to many dead draws (if it comes to that) against counters.

@rbpong721: Against all those decks it looks like Pithing Needle would help the most. If everyone in your meta is running 2/2 Crypt/Relic then just play Ingot Chewer in the board over Chain of Vapor. I would not advise this unless Darkblast is in the main though to deal with Jailer and other annoying creatures. I could potentially see 4x Wispmare against the black aggro for Leyline but thats about it. Particularly against scepter chant, I would just board in the 4 Needle but you could also put in 2x CoV if they are bringing in multiple hate cards.

Regarding mulligans, it depends on what you are up against. I mull aggressive as hell against everything but I am always looking for specific cards. Against combo game 1 I am looking for expolsive starts and Cabal Therapy, Goblins I'm looking for Darkblast, etc. But to answer the question, keep whatever kind of hand you think has potential. I mulligan a lot more than most people do because I am never going to rely on the deck to draw whats necessary its all about getting a decent opening hand. I have no reservations about going down to 4 cards trying to get a decent hand. I would not mulligan down to much lower than 5 cards against blue control though since they usually give you ample setup time and you can just draw, dredge, discard and repeat (I have won a few games against mono-u without ever casting a spell). So mulligan very aggressively and as common sense as this sounds it is vital, know the kind of hand you want against your opponent and get it, or keep the closest thing. Just always ask yourself "is this hand better than a random hand with 1 less card in it?"

I never thought of Ingot Chewer, that would certainly helps if things really get out of hand. As for the mulligan, that helps a lot. I was always wondering if I should be mulligan that much. I've never played combo decks before and I find I mulligan a lot more then normal. As for the hands, your right in trying to find a hand that's good against a particular deck. Against control I would assume that keeping a hand with about two out lets, dredge, draw, land land, would be best? Forcing them to FoW or counter that out let puts pressure on them, because if not, then like I said before, they will be in a heap of trouble.

Now if I play Needle naming scepter/crypt/relic and he destroys Needle, then drops Meddling Mage naming Needle, I would have to hope to draw into Dark Blast right? Because their is no other way to stop the hate.

@ Guitar: Tournament reports are always helpful. Their a good read and provides other more experienced players insight to your play style and they could suggest tips and pointers that would help improve your game.

[Raptor]

// Lands (14)
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Undiscovered Paradise
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine

// Creatures (27)
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
2 Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Tireless Tribe
4 Putrid Imp

// Spells (20)
3 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
2 Firestorm

// Sideboard
4 Wishpmare
4 Pithing Needle
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Ichorid
2 Firestorm

I might drop the woodfall primus or a dread return in favor of an additionnal golgari thug.. I'll see tomorrow.

[Joe_C]

Guitar: I would run the 11th dredger. you will notice the loss of it, trust me...

Also, on the list I put up yesterday, scratch that..... Tribe is just so amazing in this deck I cant see playing without it....

[rbpong721]

Guitar: I would run the 11th dredger. you will notice the loss of it, trust me...

Also, on the list I put up yesterday, scratch that..... Tribe is just so amazing in this deck I cant see playing without it....

We really need that discard outlet for the deck to function. What I like most about Tribe and Pimp are their must counters for control decks, forcing them out of their comfort zone.

How did the Unmask work out? I was thinking of running them.. but removing a black card is pretty iffy.

[bum_man]

@Joe_C: How has the 13 lands been for you? How many lands do you usually need to make the deck run? Im at 14 lands right now and often times i get great turn 2-3 kill hands that i eventually had to mulligan because they had 0-1 lands. With wasteland being rampant where i play one land is definitely not enough in the opening 7.

[Joe_C]

@Joe_C: How has the 13 lands been for you? How many lands do you usually need to make the deck run? Im at 14 lands right now and often times i get great turn 2-3 kill hands that i eventually had to mulligan because they had 0-1 lands. With wasteland being rampant where i play one land is definitely not enough in the opening 7.

The 13 lands has been working all right for me so far, I still get hands that have 2x coliseum in it way more than I would like to, and I definitely do not want to drop the coliseum count down since it allows us to win turn 2. Since I am running some more costly cards in my board I could always run the 14th land in my SB to help me cast null rod(which I am growing to like more and more- I would suggest trying it out) Depending on what you can cast on turn 1, having a 1 land hand isnt so bad... Here are a couple hand scenarios for us to discuss: all against an unknown opponent, on the play:

1. PImp, study, mine, troll, thug, city, therapy (do you lead with PImp? or study?)

2. Pimp, tribe, breakthough, ichorid, mine, study, city (no dredgers, but awesome draw, and enough lands to breakthough for x=1 turn 2)-keep? or mull

3. therapy, mine, grave troll x2, ichorid, breakthrough, stinkweed - no turn 1 discard outside of therapying yourself for troll, possible turn 2 breakthrough- keep? mull?

[bum_man]

May be my deck is just sucking out on me but often times it gives me 0-1 land hands that most of the time I'm not that comfortable running with wastelands running rampant where i play.

About the hands:

1. PImp, study, mine, troll, thug, city, therapy (do you lead with PImp? or study?)

Against an unknown opponent, I'd lead out with mine into Pimp. On the 2nd turn, i probably have a clue already on what deck he'd be playing, id therapy first then studying into troll and hopefully for the win.

2. Pimp, tribe, breakthough, ichorid, mine, study, city (no dredgers, but awesome draw, and enough lands to breakthough for x=1 turn 2)-keep? or mull

I'd keep this, leading out with mine tribe, then Pimp into study the following turn. I have the same number of dredgers and draw engines in the deck with 12. So assuming i'd mulligan into sumthing with a dredger without a draw spell, I have more or less the same odds of hitting a dredger here than hitting a draw spell if i mull'd into a hand with land, outlet and dredger.

3. therapy, mine, grave troll x2, ichorid, breakthrough, stinkweed - no turn 1 discard outside of therapying yourself for troll, possible turn 2 breakthrough- keep? mull?

Against red, i'd probably play this. Against rock and blue i'd mull this. These are the more popular decks in my meta. Against an unknown opponent i'd mull this hand. its too risky, if the breaktrhough gets countered or duressd/thoughtseized away im toast.

Off the top of my head this how i'd play this. You'd probably play these differently, right? ^^

[Ozymandias]

1. Pimp, Study, Mine, Troll, Thug, City, Therapy

Here what you do is Mine, therapy naming Force of Will. Then, no matter what, you're pretty much set. If your opp wastes your t1 land, you drop the imp, discard in t3 upkeep, and Study. If your opponent plays a blue land, you know what counter to play around. Other than that, you should have no prob winning.

2. imp, tribe, breakthough, ichorid, mine, study, city

No Dredgers is basically an auto-mull. THis deck mulls very well, but if you get a study or breakthroug countered, you're way, way too slow.

Therapy, Mine, Grave troll x2, Ichorid, Breakthrough, Stinkweed.

Again, the reason you're playing LEDless dredge is to have more repeatable dicard outlets and mana sources. I'd probably mull this as well.

[bum_man]

The first hand, yup, yours is better play. Im used to my opponents just letting Pimp resolve, they usually look out for my draw spells. My bad.

As for the second hand, true it seems slow but the problem with dredging every turn without the help of a draw spell is that i commit alot in my graveyard that in previous instances i got caught off-guard with a md crypt via trinket mage or a jotun grunt with a long life and even a withered wretch once. So most of the time, i do try to move away from over-committing cards to my graveyard.

OT although in relation to hand 2: How do you guys decide whether to draw or dredge on your draw step? Assuming you started with the standard outlet, land, dredger in the opening hand, do you guys dredge all the way until you dredge into either return/sage or a lethatl FKZ return or you draw till you get a decent draw spell?

[Ozymandias]

Ichorid is actually the deck that most ably defines aggro-combo. That means that you don't actually need to win most of your games through NarcoBridge- it's just the fastest way. You can quite easily beat down an opponent, even without draw spells. Basically, all you need is to do is keep dredging to turn over more Ichorids, Therapies, Narcomoebas, and Bridges. Then, you will effectively be drawing multiple cards per turn instead of one.

[Pulp_Fiction]

@Joe_C: If you really want to try out Unmask, post your current decklist and get everyone's input on what would be cut; or post a decklist with Unmask in it and tell us what your are missing in it and what you would like it to do, thoughts, how it plays etc.

I personally hate Unmask, now in the combo matchup it is some hot shit but in almost every other matchup I just stare at my opening hand and think to myself "damn, I don't want to remove any of these cards from the game." Only card I would really want to remove to Unmask is Ichorid or a second PImp in hand, potentially DR would be decent but I just don't like it. Later on, not having that extra Therapy or Bridge could prove very problematic.