[Deck] Reanimator

[sauce]

Trying to Reanimate this thread lol.

Anyone saw the new card Child of Alara?

WGRBU
Trample 6/6
When Child of Alara leaves play, destroy all non-land permanents.

Just wondering if it'll be cool to play her in a more controllish Reanimator with Recurring Nightmare.

RTFC!

Legendary Creature - Avatar 6/6, WUBRG (5)
Trample
When Child of Alara is put into a graveyard from play, destroy all nonland permanents. They can't be regenerated.

It is not leaves play...

[nodahero]

@ Sauce... Child was origanlly spoiled to trigger on leaves play... not grave yard... before you try and make fun of someone check your dates... and what may have lead to his statement... making fun of someone online is like beating a guy in Soul Caliber online and saying you kicked his ass in a fight... really sad... not to be a hypocrit but someone had to say it.

[kicks_422]

Is blue really required to make Reanimator work? I've tried making a mono-black version with some twists to make up for the card draw, and I'd really appreciate it if you guys could help me with it. It's in the Budget forum under the N&D forum.

[John Rohan]

Is blue really required to make Reanimator work? I've tried making a mono-black version with some twists to make up for the card draw, and I'd really appreciate it if you guys could help me with it. It's in the Budget forum under the N&D forum.

I'll comment there with specifics, but in general, sure you can do mono-black. But you basically have almost no protection or artifact/enchantment removal. So your best bet is to go the pure speed route, with dark rituals, etc, or combine it with a discard stategy to attack your opponent's hand.

[raharu]

Akroma? I didn't recommend Akroma one way or the other. But obviously, you just skimmed my post. Rather than being so quick to flame, it would be more constructive if you shared with us why Autochion or Sisters were worse than your current choices. I'm not being sarcastic when I say I would love to hear about it.

Because Akroma is slower than Hellkite Overlord, less flexible than Bogardan Hellkite, less protected than Simic Sky Swallower, and doesn't do anything special in it's own right. Also, the whole invalidation of a third of your reanimation suite is a serious kick in the nuts. There is *no* reason to play her, as she does everything other creatures do much worse, and nothing better. Also, Legendary *is* relevant when you actually have blue, and access to draw power.

The Wurm was just cute. He has no evasion, no trample, no... nothing. Dies to StP (a gripe that also surfaces with everything else you suggested, Akroma included), doesn't do anything other than be big. If that was all I wanted, I'd play Tarmogoyf.

Sisters lacked relevance. Win-more, no evasion, no protection, just... bad.

Also, I didn't just skim your post. I actually re-read it twice because I wanted to be sure that you actually suggested what you suggested. Still not flaming, but test what you suggest, and test it against good decks, please.

If you ignore the meta, then quite frankly, you are doomed to lose. That's free advice. Ignore it if you want.

I don't ignore the meta, what I said was that the choices you've presented are all sub-optimal in *every* meta. All of them.

If you are talking to me, I'll tell you that I played my B/G reanimator at GP Chicago, which had over 1200 people. Other than that, I only play online, which is the most "meta" environment you can have.

Record?

On this list, it looks like the conventional wisdom is to pack your deck with Empyrial Archangels or Simic Sky Swallowers. You mention StP several times in your posts, and if you face that a lot, then shroud creatures make sense.

StP was one of the most played cards at the GP, and is one of the most played cards in the format. Seriously? You are almost guaranteed to face it, even at god-awful locals.

But then what happens when you face Dreadstifle? An attack by a Phrex Dreadnought will kill either one. Heck, it will kill your Archangel, even if you don't block! Suddenly you might wish you had at least one Sisters or Autochion Wurm (or an Angel of Despair will also do). Or if you have Reva Dawnbringer, it doesn't matter if your Archangel is killed or not, because every turn she will just pull it back from the graveyard, creating a loop that makes you impossible to kill. I once had nothing but those two creatures out, and beat an Artifact affinity deck that had like a dozen creatures on the table.

They play Countermagic, not to mention CounterTop, Stifle for your Reyana, can still kill you with factories if you can block the 'Naught, in some cases SWORDS TO FRIGGIN' PLOWSHARES, and I simply don't believe that an decent Affinity deck vomited out a dozen creatures and didn't Disciple you out. Since you don't run Archangel...

Anyway, the point is, I prefer the "toolbox" approach, and put in a wide range of creatures to face various threats. In my current build I pack one Archangel and one red Akroma to help me if I'm facing StP. With a Buried Alive spell, I can pull them out no matter where they are in my deck.

You can prefer it all you want. I prefer to play Mono-black suicide, MUC, D+T, and draft decks. Notice how I didn't say I win with them. The point of this forum is to make competitive decks, not decks we prefer playing with. Given the chance to not end up in the 0-X bracket, I'd play thunderbluff, because that's what I prefer, but I don't, because I like playing competitive decks to ones I prefer (actually I just like winning).

I can't do much against Blue control or FoW, except be patient and ride it out (although Rodgon's original deck in this thread didn't have much to stop it either). My sideboard is heavily weighted to stop blue though - one advantage of the B/G version is that green has plenty of anti-blue cards. I now have 4 copies of Vexing Shusher in my sideboard, which is amazing in this deck. In a B/U I prefer to fight fire with fire, and pack 4x FoWs myself - it's also the best defense against combo, something this deck is vulnerable to.

A) The whole metagame is Blue-based control.

If you ignore the meta, then quite frankly, you are doomed to lose. That's free advice. Ignore it if you want.

B) Shusher still bites it to removal, and your threats still bite it to removal, so you can play through a self-imposed, one-sided Sphere of Resistance, or... you could play disruption, or... You could play draw power, threats that don't eat removal, and more resources than they run counters...

Also, have fun with your abysmally low blue count for FoW.


I still think that UB reanimator should run FoW, Daze, and perhaps some sort of removal main to get the edge in forcing threats through while removing the opponents.

I would say that the agreed upon reanimator package is:

Reanimate x4
Exhume x4
Animate Dead x4

Empyrial Archangel x4
Simic Sky Swallower x3/4 (season to meta)
Inkwell Levithan x3/4 (season to meta)

So that's 22 to 24 slots agreed upon. As there really aren't any blue cards that one would want to pitch to FoW without seriously thinking about it in this list, the rest should be mostly draw and protection. This is where some contention arises. I'm thinking something like this would be nice, but it's just a place to grow out from:

Careful Study x4
Brainstorm x4
Daze x4
Force of Will x4

and some sort of other discard outlet. I've always had an eye somewhat cast towards Predict, but even as a two-of I think it would get in the way more than anything (as only Brainstorm stacks the deck in this list). As technically we're already at 26 blue cards, 16 of which aren't going to be *too* missed, Purtid Imp or Oona's Prowler seem solid. Perhaps this list suffers from too few discard outlets. iDunno. It's all just speculation, but Daze and Fow are what I believe would make the deck competitive.

[John Rohan]

The Wurm was just cute. He has no evasion, no trample, no... nothing. Dies to StP (a gripe that also surfaces with everything else you suggested, Akroma included), doesn't do anything other than be big.

You know, before you flame me any more for my supposed ignorance, you should know that:

1. Autochion Wurm has trample. Check it again.

2. Once again, I didn't suggest Akroma (the white one, anyway).

Record?

On MWS, my record is about 40-60 when facing tier 1 deck types (about 60-40 if I can use my sideboard). At the GP, it was 3-6, mostly because of combo (which I already knew I was doomed against) and monored burn, which I wasn't expecting. You can read about it in detail here, if you want:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=13283

I suppose you can flame me for pulling 3-6, but considering that reanimator isn't anywhere near top of the format, that it was my first time playing offline in several years, and that I was playing some of the best players around, it's a start. I've already made some substantial improvements, and will post another decklist at some point.

StP was one of the most played cards at the GP, and is one of the most played cards in the format. Seriously? You are almost guaranteed to face it, even at god-awful locals.

At GP Chicago, I saw it in one single deck I faced (which I beat). It was also in the winning deck, so yes, of course it's an important card, I don't deny that, and it's why I have some creatures with protection from it. But I'm not going to base my entire deck's design around that single card.

They play Countermagic, not to mention CounterTop, Stifle for your Reyana, can still kill you with factories if you can block the 'Naught, in some cases SWORDS TO FRIGGIN' PLOWSHARES, and I simply don't believe that an decent Affinity deck vomited out a dozen creatures and didn't Disciple you out. Since you don't run Archangel...

?? I do use Archangel. I said that twice in my post. But I only need one copy of it. Reya + Archangel creates the loop. Even if you stifle Reya, she will just use her ability again the next turn.

You can prefer it all you want. I prefer to play Mono-black suicide, MUC, D+T, and draft decks. Notice how I didn't say I win with them. The point of this forum is to make competitive decks, not decks we prefer playing with. Given the chance to not end up in the 0-X bracket, I'd play thunderbluff, because that's what I prefer, but I don't, because I like playing competitive decks to ones I prefer (actually I just like winning).

Then why do you play B/U reanimator? Seriously, is it anywhere near the top of the format right now? If you are satisfied with it currently as a tier 2 deck, then by all means, continue. Otherwise, maybe you might want to consider some other ideas. That's all I'm suggesting.

Reanimator, whether B/U, B/G, or mono black, (or B/W is very possible), has a hell of a lot of potential which I think hasn't even been realized yet.

Anyway, your post is just dripping with sarcasm, and I'm trying very hard to avoid going tit for tat. If you disagree with me, fine. But let's try to have a civil discussion.

[nodahero]

In ALL HONESTY I think you are being a little overly defensive. It sounded to me like Raharu was being very calm.

Perhaps you can attempt to explain your card choices as comparison to Raharu's suggested agreed upon cards and explain where the parallels lay...

Then again you can also continue to ignore my suggestions...

[raharu]

You know, before you flame me any more for my supposed ignorance, you should know that:

1. Autochion Wurm has trample. Check it again.

Got me. I think that impression just came from our goblins player throwing stuff under the bus to live for another turn and swing lethal.

On MWS, my record is about 40-60 when facing tier 1 deck types (about 60-40 if I can use my sideboard). At the GP, it was 3-6, mostly because of combo (which I already knew I was doomed against) and monored burn, which I wasn't expecting. You can read about it in detail here, if you want:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=13283

This deck looses instantly when CB hits the table. If you see CB, you scoop (lest you play the repeals, but you're in bg, so... K grip from the side *might* gave you a bit longer), so somehow I doubt that 40% of the decks you see that run CB, removal, or Countermagic (i.e. tier 1 decks) don't see the cards that wreck the deck game one.

I suppose you can flame me for pulling 3-6, but considering that reanimator isn't anywhere near top of the format, that it was my first time playing offline in several years, and that I was playing some of the best players around, it's a start. I've already made some substantial improvements, and will post another decklist at some point.

A) I'm not flaming

B) Nope. It's not a good finish, but it's respectable.

At GP Chicago, I saw it in one single deck I faced (which I beat). It was also in the winning deck, so yes, of course it's an important card, I don't deny that, and it's why I have some creatures with protection from it. But I'm not going to base my entire deck's design around that single card.

Not just StP, most removal in general. Even Terror wrecks you, so why not take out a third of the problems the deck faces, and then board for the rest?

?? I do use Archangel. I said that twice in my post. But I only need one copy of it. Reya + Archangel creates the loop. Even if you stifle Reya, she will just use her ability again the next turn.

In a typical build, one creature that doesn't get removed isn't enough to see it consistantly, and one turn is all that's needed to swing through Reya for lethal or burn you out. Just a thought.

Then why do you play B/U reanimator? Seriously, is it anywhere near the top of the format right now? If you are satisfied with it currently as a tier 2 deck, then by all means, continue. Otherwise, maybe you might want to consider some other ideas. That's all I'm suggesting.

Tier two decks are better than tier three decks, and tier two decks can show up as an unforeseen element and win, while tier three decks just... suck, essentially. I'm trying to stop that backslide.

Reanimator, whether B/U, B/G, or mono black, (or B/W is very possible), has a hell of a lot of potential which I think hasn't even been realized yet.

Anyway, your post is just dripping with sarcasm, and I'm trying very hard to avoid going tit for tat. If you disagree with me, fine. But let's try to have a civil discussion.

And I am having one, however much you want to make civility seem like savagery, it's not.

[rleader]

A toolbox is fun casually, but intuition is too slow when you need it vs. iminent death which is the exact moment when having a toolbox is useful.

That's not to say that intution can't be in a more competitive deck, only that it's useful for improving late-game consistancy, not getting you out of almost unwinnable situations.

[gamegeek2]

I don't see why people don't just play 4 Leviathan. Best possible reanimation fatty in this format.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

My top 3 targets:
Empyrial Archangel: Shorud, evasion, good for offense and defense! Yeah!
Hellkite Overlord: Phet, fast.
Akroma: A bit oldschool but still good.

What are yours?

[gamegeek2]

In the majority of matchups, Leviathan is unblockable, unkillable, and unstoppable.

[Linkin Pac]

gamegeek2, I do believe Bogardan Hellkite is the best fatty to reanimate; I think it is the only creature that can be agreed upon to be a 4 of. It serves as creature control, a non-attacking form of damage, and its burning ability gives it psuedo-haste. You don't need to worry about a StP making it completely worthless; you will at least get the 5 damage in. Many a times I have topdecked an Exhume to win with it instantly. It fits a niche in the fatties of the Reanimator deck IMO.

As for Inkwell Leviathan, I still prefer to use Simic Sky Swallower over it, and I will explain my reasoning. While it is true that SO many decks out there have blue, you will still come across several non-blue ones, and suddenly the Leviathan isn't really better. Obviously, a 7 power versus 6 power means the game can potentially be ended in 3 turns from when you get it in play, compared to 4 turns for SSS, but assuming your opponent is non-blue, all he needs to do is drop a 2 toughness creature at some time in the first 3 turns in order to make the clock equal. Additionally, SSS can win the game in 3 turns several times; between an opponents' possible fetchlands/Ancient Tomb and your Putrid Imp poking them. I feel that the all-around usefulness of Flying outweighs the usually useful (but not all the time) Islandwalk.

John Rohan, don't let anyone discourage you from playing BG! You may lose the fluidity of blue or the consistency of monoblack, but you gain answers to some of the deck's biggest problems in the form of Krosan Grip. I was considering trying BG, and was thinking about possibly adding Survival to the mix. Has anyone tried this? The positives are that it serves as both a discard outlet and a tutor, lending itself to your deck's toolbox approach. The downside is that it's slow, and requires a hefty amount of creatures in your deck to fully utilize.

HdH_Cthulhu, my top 3 fatties as of now are Bogardan Hellkite, Simic Sky Swallower and Empyrial Archangel. I run 4 each of the first two and 3 Angels, but I am finding it hard to decide between Angels, Akromas, or Leviathans.

[John Rohan]

This deck looses instantly when CB hits the table. If you see CB, you scoop (lest you play the repeals, but you're in bg, so... K grip from the side *might* gave you a bit longer), so somehow I doubt that 40% of the decks you see that run CB, removal, or Countermagic (i.e. tier 1 decks) don't see the cards that wreck the deck game one.

Actually, CB isn't total death - I play Krosan Grip, Boseiju, Mishra's factories, Extractor Demon and [now] Vexing Shusher. Also Victimize, Defense of the Heart, and Cranial Extraction are 3 and 4 point spells which are more likely to get past the CB.

Not just StP, most removal in general. Even Terror wrecks you, so why not take out a third of the problems the deck faces, and then board for the rest?.

Got it - but the problem is the limited number of slots in the deck. If I can search or do Buried Alive for the shroud creature when I need it, then why not have more variety for the toolbox? That also frees up slots in the sideboard.

[John Rohan]

gamegeek2, I do believe Bogardan Hellkite is the best fatty to reanimate; I think it is the only creature that can be agreed upon to be a 4 of. It serves as creature control, a non-attacking form of damage, and its burning ability gives it psuedo-haste. You don't need to worry about a StP making it completely worthless; you will at least get the 5 damage in. Many a times I have topdecked an Exhume to win with it instantly. It fits a niche in the fatties of the Reanimator deck IMO.

I've experiemented with it, and liked it enough to order one for my deck. Just what to take out though? That's always the problem..

Previously, I've tried both Midnight Banshee and Laquatus's Champion to perform similar roles. But the problem with the Banshee is she kills my own creatures too. The problem with Laquatus is that the opponent can sometimes get the life they lost back.

As for Inkwell Leviathan, I still prefer to use Simic Sky Swallower over it, and I will explain my reasoning.

I would give a slight edge to the Leviathan though, since the 11 toughness means that it can always block a Tarmogoyf and survive. Also, if there is a Doran, Siege Tower in play, he attacks with 11 damage!

John Rohan, don't let anyone discourage you from playing BG! You may lose the fluidity of blue or the consistency of monoblack, but you gain answers to some of the deck's biggest problems in the form of Krosan Grip. I was considering trying BG, and was thinking about possibly adding Survival to the mix. Has anyone tried this? The positives are that it serves as both a discard outlet and a tutor, lending itself to your deck's toolbox approach. The downside is that it's slow, and requires a hefty amount of creatures in your deck to fully utilize.

Thanks - I seriously considered Survival as well, but the main thrust of a Reanimator deck is to get creatures into the graveyard and then out, not necessarily in your hand. It's very useful, but doesn't have quite the right synergy. I'm sure there's a way to make it work well, though, but it would take a lot of reworking other parts of the deck. Another problem is it's a Casting cost 2 spell in a deck already full of CC2 spells , meaning that I would be making the deck even more vulnerable to counterbalance.

[gamegeek2]

I would run some Show and Tell to get around CB.

[troopatroop]

I was really high last night, and scribbled down this decklist. I really liked it at the time, and it's pretty good. I thought I'd share.

-Discard-
4 Putrid Imp
4 Careful Study
3 Ideas Unbound

-Animation-
4 Animate Dead
4 Exhume
3 Reanimate

-Blue-
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

-Big Guys-
3 Hellkite Overlord
3 Empyrial Archangel
2 Reya Dawnbringer

-18 Land-
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Swamp

The mana curve...

1cc: 15
2cc: 15 (4 Daze)
3cc: 0
4cc: 0
5cc: 4 (FOW)
Uncastables : 8

Basically, I realized that a Reanimator deck is equally dependant on Discard and Reanimation. This means that you should probably be playing an even distribution. This list plays 11 Discard and 11 Animation. Ideas Unbound and Careful Study are great at giving you card advantage in this deck, and set up an overwhelmingly consistent turn 2-3 Fatty. Accompanied with Brainstorm, they also allow you to run 18 land. The mana curve is so tight in this, and all the spells are really good. I don't expect to see any Counter-top in my meta, and this build just seems too consistent to get beat by anything else. Even if they answer your first attempt at reanimation, this build is awesome at delivering another. Thoughts?

[Dark_Cynic87]

I built a wierd reanimator a while back. It was B/U/g, and it went more around Aether Vial, Reanimate, and Unearth. Vial at 2, vial at 3 was good and the creature base included Dreadnoughts w/ Stifle obv., but also good with Vial as we all know, Bobs, Witnesses (good loop, witness + unearth = recycling chump blocker), goyfs, and Trygon Predators and Trinket Mage. I had CB and Top in it also at one point. It wasn't about fat, it was more about keeping creatures on the field with the reanimators. Dreadnought was obviously the better swinger, and there are plenty of other creatures you could choose from as well, I just liked the synergies between top and bob, vial and dreadnought, which in some matchups allows you to save your stifles for their fetches, E. Witness to get back anything, mages to grab vial, nought or top, as well as the usual one-of targets, and all the while everything is basically recyclable as you have E. Witness, and 6-8 reanimation spells.

Predators wiped out opposing CB's while Vial allowed you to work around it. It even ran enough blue that FoW was an option. With this version, you don't have to worry about a discard outlet as everything is more than castable, and you didn't need the traditional intuition/buried alive scam to screw yourself over with having to dump a card just to get pwned by Relic/crypt/random yard hate.

It takes advantage of the reanimation aspect of the game while still maintaining it's ability to work straight through the graveyard hate.

18 creatures
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dreadnought
2x Trygon Predator
2x E. Witness
2x Trinket Mage
4x Bob

4x Thoughtseize
4x Stifle
4x Aether Vial
3x Unearth
2x Reanimate
3x Spell Snare
4x Brainstorm

4x Delta
2x Mire
4x Wasteland
1x Trop
2x USea
2x Bayou
1x Swamp
1x Volrath's Stronghold

SIDEBOARD:
3x K. Grip
2x Extirpate
2x Hurkyl's Recall (would rather this be something else, but what? Stax/prison solution...)
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Aethersworn Cannonist
1x Scrubland

It's obviously extremely tempo-y, but has many good qualities. It needs tweaked but I think it runs well for a screw-off deck I just threw together one day. I'm sure if it looks like something you want to play, someone could definitely get it rolling.

Thoughtseize + Reanimate = you stealing their goyf costing you only 2 life. Exciting for sure.

Pce,

--DC

[Sun_Ra]

Thoughtseize + Reanimate = you stealing their goyf costing you only 2 life.

Don't forget three mana. And two cards.

Unearth is dead sexy, though, in my opinion.

[Dark_Cynic87]

By two life I clearly meant 4, btw...

and it's only 2 mana, not 3, unless you are anticipating Daze...

Pce,

--DC