[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[mossivo1986]

1 Dismantling Blow
- Make it R2D, Counterbalance decks are trying more and more to consistently hit the 3 drop slot with cb (The best versions) so r2d is what you want to go for. Yes I understand that wish costs three but you can play around it early and cast it later.

1 Path to Exile
- Trust me splitting this with BEB and HYDRO is something I have NEVER felt bad about. Even when I tried to cutt it back again I fealt awefull about doing so. And now that I am running more in the board its something im sure you will agree is worth every penny.

1 Diabolic Edict
- Bad, you already have your removal. If you want more run additional path's. They're easier to cast and they don't cost 2 "spell snare"


1 Fact or Fiction
- Tested it. it's not the best, you hardly ever cast it. Better off going with something thats going to autowin you a match, which fof doesn't.

3 Tidehollow Sculler
- Also tested this. Found over many games it wasn't what I wanted. I always wished it was Meddling Mage. MM is simply better when you know what your up against, and following up a game 1 makes MM soo much more usefull.

Personally my sb:

1 pulse
1 pate
1 tutor
1 r2d
4 path
1 beb
1 hydro
1 fracturing gust
1 relic
1 cop red
2 ajani

[Shawn]

Mossivo, why do you run Return to Dust and Fracturing Gust in the sideboard? It seems wasteful unless you plan on bringing one in, which is ok in the right meta. If you are planning on bringing in a Disenchant effect game two I would just play a Vindicate sideboard since rarely will you draw both Wishes and want to find Return to Dust both times. Also, Wish-Enlightened Tutor-Explosives is essentially Disenchant #2 out of the wishboard.

I had two Dismantling Blows in my board of Wishstill for the last Monsters Den tournament last summer, but the second one did nothing. Doesn't the Return to Dust do enough against stuff like affinity? (I still run a D Blow in my sideboard, and do fine against affinity, and no one plays that deck anyway)

1 Fact or Fiction
- Tested it. it's not the best, you hardly ever cast it. Better off going with something thats going to autowin you a match, which fof doesn't.

Agreed, I had a Fact in my wishboard a long time ago, but I never wished for it and had no problems cutting it. For reference, here's my wishboard:

1 Extirpate
1 Enlightened Tutor/Path to Exile (depends on what I'm expecting, if the meta is more aggressive I'll play Path, otherwise, Tutor)
1 Dismantling Blow
1 Pulse of the Fields
* I also have two Blue Blasts and one Hydroblast, but those are rarely wished for, and I bring all them in against red decks anyway.

[mossivo1986]

Mossivo, why do you run Return to Dust and Fracturing Gust in the sideboard? It seems wasteful unless you plan on bringing one in, which is ok in the right meta. If you are planning on bringing in a Disenchant effect game two I would just play a Vindicate sideboard since rarely will you draw both Wishes and want to find Return to Dust both times. Also, Wish-Enlightened Tutor-Explosives is essentially Disenchant #2 out of the wishboard.

1. Return To Dust:
Is essentially your alternate out to counterbalance. It offers a wide variety of other uses as well, but since you don't run vindicate you must run return in order to focus on removing the big things like counterbalance. It's cc is perfect as well.

2. Fracturing Gust:
Single handedly destroys: Affinity (Unfavorable matchup) Enchantress(Dependant on build) and 2 of the three Stax builds

Faerie Stompy:
This matchup is really mediocre, but with Fracturing gust it enables you to remove:

chrome mox, sigil, sols, sofi, 3sphere, challice, b2b "If they run it".

Arm Stax:
Extremely unfavorable for me
Removes:
Crucible, 3sphere, Challice, Mox diamond, ghostly prison, suppression field.

This allows me to focus ALL of my forces on their armageddon's.

Dragon Stompy:
Extremely Favorable.
I dont think ive EVER lost a game to dragon stompy with 3c wish still at this point.
Removes: Bloodmoon, challice, 3sphere, chrome mox, juggarnaut "if they run it"

*Plus:
Geoff told me to run gust. 1UP!

On top of all the reasons stated before it replaces the crucible/ runed halo slot which was good, but looking back when you remove a semi-usefull card for an auto-win card that raises your chances of winning a matchup 10 fold it becomes a sort of auto-include.

Hope that gives you enough reasoning.

(I still run a D Blow in my sideboard, and do fine against affinity, and no one plays that deck anyway)

Thats pretty strange because not only do I think Affinity is a bad matchup, but most of the people that play landstill with me pretty much unanimously agree that Affinity can and is a problem when you run into it at tournaments if you dont see mass removal plus wasteland if you run it. Affinity tends to sneak wins.

1 Enlightened Tutor/Path to Exile (depends on what I'm expecting, if the meta is more aggressive I'll play Path, otherwise, Tutor)

You should always play both. You can't predict what your going to play to that kind of a degree, plus path is never bad. As I stated before 1 hydro 1 beb 1 path was the evolved plan when path was released, and after EXTENSIVE testing I found that running multiple paths "Geoff again 2up!" I found that it was absolutely neccesary to beat such decks as merfolk and well pretty much anything tribal.

*Also fyi: I like colors

[rockout]

Careful Joel. You are getting to the point where you are telling people they should never run this or that.

[gamegeek2]

Your point on Stax is valid, but a 5 mana spell isn't the best way to fight Affinity. I would much rather have Enlightened Tutor for Energy Flux.

[Shawn]

Do stax, affinity and enchantress, faerie stompy see enough play in your area to warrant taking another sideboard space?

I've had great results against white stax in testing, (also 2-0'd it at the GP). since they lack any real card advantage, are draw dependant and the only cards you really care about are Smokestacks and 'Geddon, sometimes Crucible. Explosives at three is a complete blowout, and they essentially can't win through Ruins+Explosives, (at least game one) if you play it.

I've haven't played much against enchantress, (since no one plays that deck in Iowa/Minnesota) but I did 2-0 it at the GP. The deck seems to have difficulty doing much when you kill/counter its enchantress effects, which prevents it from going nuts and Replenishing all over your face.

You should always play both. You can't predict what your going to play to that kind of an extent plus path is never bad.

It's more or less the same meta every time I go to IA City or MN. Iowa City=aggro. Minneapolis=Blue aggro control/some landstill. Running one or the other is fine, Enlightened Tutor can act as removal by searching Explosives or Humility. Running both clogs up the sideboard to much; I need as many anti combo and graveyard hate cards in the sideboard as I can fit. With just pair of Halos and an Enlightened Tutor side I've been getting rolled by TES in testing. The post side games go like this: Halo (Tendrils), Chant (counter), Duress (steal my other counter), resolve Ad Nauseum, draw a million cards since Ajani+Decree+Factories aren't a clock, and Wish into Grapeshot.

[mossivo1986]

Your point on Stax is valid, but a 5 mana spell isn't the best way to fight Affinity.

Your right, a five mana spell isn't the best lone answer to anything, well other then maybe force. But the addition of gust allows you to control the games position alot easier. Test the model and you'll find that out.

I would much rather have Enlightened Tutor for Energy Flux.

I would much rather have pernicious deed, but we can't all get what we want as four color isn't nearly as viable as it once was. Energy flux is an absolute waste when you can play crucible or halo in the same slots. Gust is the only logical "instant win" replacement. If you don't agree I really don't care; because i'm right.

[Citrus-God]

Do stax, affinity and enchantress, faerie stompy see enough play in your area to warrant taking another sideboard space?

In MN, there's always at least 1-2 Stax decks running around.

I've had great results against white stax in testing, (also 2-0'd it at the GP). since they lack any real card advantage, are draw dependant and the only cards you really care about are Smokestacks and 'Geddon, sometimes Crucible. Explosives at three is a complete blowout, and they essentially can't win through Ruins+Explosives, (at least game one) if you play it.

Geddon Stax is easy if you run Meddling Mages in the Sideboard.

I've haven't played much against enchantress, (since no one plays that deck in Iowa/Minnesota) but I did 2-0 it at the GP. The deck seems to have difficulty doing much when you kill/counter its enchantress effects, which prevents it from going nuts and Replenishing all over your face.

Argothian Enchantresses can get Spell Snared, which is always helpful.

It's more or less the same meta every time I go to IA City or MN. Iowa City=aggro. Minneapolis=Blue aggro control/some landstill.

So in this case, you should always have Enlighten Tutor in the board. Path to Exile is just a target removal you have available to you for convenience. It's not at all a necessity, but Enlighten Tutor, I firmly believe is a necessity. Enlighten Tutor finds you Crucible of Worlds for the control mirror, EE post board so you can do that young Academy Ruins+EE lock and Humility to steal game 1s.

So in this case, you should have have Enlighten Tutor, and maybe Path to Exile if you want. As for the Minneapolis metagame, it's just a lot of Threshold and Merfolk. Landstill, not so much anymore due to the appearance of Merfolk. But Merfolk takes the place of Landstill, which gives you another reason to run Crucible of Worlds.

Running one or the other is fine, Enlightened Tutor can act as removal by searching Explosives or Humility. Running both clogs up the sideboard to much; I need as many anti combo and graveyard hate cards in the sideboard as I can fit. With just pair of Halos and an Enlightened Tutor side I've been getting rolled by TES in testing. The post side games go like this: Halo (Tendrils), Chant (counter), Duress (steal my other counter), resolve Ad Nauseum, draw a million cards since Ajani+Decree+Factories aren't a clock, and Wish into Grapeshot.

Why arent you running Meddling Mages in the board? I just board in 4 BEB and 4 Meddling Mages against TES, and it has been amazing so far. Meddling Mage is a clock, and is a damn fine one as well. BEBs also counter opposing REB so you can protect Mage, Burning Wish which keeps them off Cave-In/Clasm/Grapeshot and Vexing Shushers. It also counters Rite of Flames which is profit.

Meddling Mages against TES should be calling Ad Nauseam first, and the other copies are situation specific based on your hand.

As for the graveyard hate, I don't think you really need it. What are your bad match ups against graveyard decks? Nobody plays Ichorid anymore. Aggro Loam? It's still bad post-board. If you want to beat Aggro Loam, I say just drop DoJ for 2 Angel tokens or Ajani -> Avatar token. If you can protect those cards and stall until midgame, you should beat Aggro Loam.

[FredMaster]

As for the graveyard hate, I don't think you really need it. What are your bad match ups against graveyard decks? Nobody plays Ichorid anymore. Aggro Loam?

It's the Fear is very hard to keep up with, when you don't play any Graveyardhate. I also think that you have a pretty good chance to beat Loam postboard (provided you play Relic of course).

[Citrus-God]

Your right, a five mana spell isn't the best lone answer to anything, well other then maybe force. But the addition of gust allows you to control the games position alot easier. Test the model and you'll find that out.

Depends. I'm testing Gust right now, and I will admit, I like it. But there will be exceptions, like, I will cut it in my metagame because... it's sorta worthless.

I would much rather have pernicious deed, but we can't all get what we want as four color isn't nearly as viable as it once was. Energy flux is an absolute waste when you can play crucible or halo in the same slots. Gust is the only logical "instant win" replacement. If you don't agree I really don't care; because i'm right.

Understandable that Pernicious Deed is better, but you GIVE THEM ONE TURN! With that one turn, they can do so many nasty things to you. They can topdeck a Sharpnel Blast, Pithing Needle or even a Cranial Plating. Also, what about the Myr Enforcers and Frogmites on the board? What if he runs Darksteel Citadel?

I can see where he's getting at, he would much rather just run a singleton Energy Flux and tutor it up against Affinity or Stax. Gust is a reasonable replacement, but not logical. I don't see 8 mana being logical, just to win against decks that are rarely played. In fact, if you're boarding in Energy Flux to serve as a hoser against Affinity or Stax, it's better. He runs a singleton ETutor maindeck, he runs one in the board, and if he boards in the Energy Flux along with the ETutor, he has 3 outs to find it, and probably more since he runs Brainstorms and Standstills and maybe Tops as well. Energy Flux, in every way, is just better than just having a Fracturing Gust in the board. It's not like you're going to win Game 1 anyway.

@Fredmaster: You can totally beat ITF if you can outplay the ITF player. It's more of a match up of resource management rather than graveyard control. Besides, you can just run a singleton Extirpate and just Extirpate their Etched Oracle or something.

[mossivo1986]

Do stax, affinity and enchantress, faerie stompy see enough play in your area to warrant taking another sideboard space?

If you run into them playing my model, yes it's worth the answer.

I've had great results against white stax in testing, (also 2-0'd it at the GP).

your list probobly runs counterspell then, mine contains vendillion clique. This changes those matchups substancially.

since they lack any real card advantage, are draw dependant and the only cards you really care about are Smokestacks and 'Geddon, sometimes Crucible.

Correct, and I can't win when they resolve any of those threats early.

Explosives at three is a complete blowout, and they essentially can't win through Ruins+Explosives, (at least game one) if you play it.

Essentially they can still win, and its why I've not been happy with my testing. Lack of counterspell really shines in this matchup. It's not pretty. I also tend to find and play against the players who have the endless gas cycle "counter a geddon, they play another. Remove a crucible lock, they draw another crucible or 3 additional wastelands." It's terrible and its one of the only reasons I am truly determined to make that matchup atleast semi playable and winnable preboard and post.

I've haven't played much against enchantress, (since no one plays that deck in Iowa/Minnesota) but I did 2-0 it at the GP.

Congrats, enchantress can be very tough for 3c to play against. Gust makes it a blowout if you don't let them build their hand.

The deck seems to have difficulty doing much when you kill/counter its enchantress effects, which prevents it from going nuts and Replenishing all over your face.

Yes?

It's more or less the same meta every time I go to IA City or MN. Iowa City=aggro. Minneapolis=Blue aggro control/some landstill. Running one or the other is fine, Enlightened Tutor can act as removal by searching Explosives or Humility. Running both clogs up the sideboard to much;

If your running a wish board, nomatter how small it is you need to be running these cards:

1 pate
1 pulse
1 return to dust
1 tutor
1 path
1 hydro
1 beb
2 ajani
3 relic
3 MM

It makes no difference if you think you need an extra slot or not, but you do not remove path because it acts as beb #3, and realisticly it sideboard in on red matchups like that as well most of the time. Do not remove such a strong removal spell from you wish board. outside of that the rest of the sideboard is up to you. I deffinately suggest relic and ajani for obvious reasons.

I need as many anti combo and graveyard hate cards in the sideboard as I can fit. With just pair of Halos and an Enlightened Tutor side I've been getting rolled by TES in testing.

Unless you plan on playing against tes more then once in a tourney Id really rather sacrfice the matchup. Your unlikely to win even with sideboard cards because the matchup is soo dependant on if your opponent is playing the uwb uwbr or five color versions with mass fetches and a more goodstuff approach.

The post side games go like this: Halo (Tendrils), Chant (counter), Duress (steal my other counter), resolve Ad Nauseum, draw a million cards since Ajani+Decree+Factories aren't a clock, and Wish into Grapeshot.[/QUOTE]

[Ectoplasm]

You can totally beat ITF if you can outplay the ITF player. It's more of a match up of resource management rather than graveyard control. Besides, you can just run a singleton Extirpate and just Extirpate their Etched Oracle or something.

The best part about UWb landstill is the fact you can win nearly every matchup, granted you outplay your opponent, imo 3c landstill is the 'old reliable' deck that doesn't have any glaring holes, yet has no 'complete blowout' matchups either. That being said, I have to say that once the game reaches a stalemate the ITF player will most likely win since they have all kinds of inevitability over you, which will eventually put you in the position where you run out of answers before you can win.

Luckily, hardly anyone plays ITF around here, probably because of the thousands of actions you have to perform each turn, 20 turns in a row, which makes it tedious.

[mossivo1986]

The best part about UWb landstill is the fact you can win nearly every matchup, granted you outplay your opponent, imo 3c landstill is the 'old reliable' deck that doesn't have any glaring holes, yet has no 'complete blowout' matchups either. That being said, I have to say that once the game reaches a stalemate the ITF player will most likely win since they have all kinds of inevitability over you, which will eventually put you in the position where you run out of answers before you can win.

Luckily, hardly anyone plays ITF around here, probably because of the thousands of actions you have to perform each turn, 20 turns in a row, which makes it tedious.

In my experiance against itf personally the games I have one I eliminated 3 key cards for my opponent.

#1 Etched Oracle.
Obviously he's massive, he doesn't die and he gets returned by both ruins and volraths stronghold. He also draws an assload of cards.

#2 LFTL

Wastelock at the speed of an instant with Intuition this is pretty nasty when combined with the blue cycling land and wasteland combination

#3 Eternal Witness

If all else fails the last thing said opponent will try and do is lock you out with witness protection plan. This pretty easily stated and its not nice at all.

If you solve these answers or you catch them with their very frail mana base you can just stop them cold. You can easily win by stripping itf off their green sources, white, blue, black. In that exact order. Stopping counterbalance is also pretty important because their 3cc and 4cc slots are consistent and good against you.

[TheCramp]

So I may return to the world of tournament legacy later this month. Here is the list I am testing. It is not the list I want to run.

Land [24]:

1 Academy Ruins
1 Dust Bowl/Wasteland
3 Usine de Mishra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Poluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra

Blue [21]:

1 Jace Beleren
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill

non Blue [15]:

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Wrath of God
1 Humility
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Decree of Justice
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds

If anyone has any advice on a few points, I wouls love to hear it.

1) I think I need more removal, and have 3 vindicates in the mail. not sure where/want to cut. I also think Runed Halo is hot. I want one main I think.

2) I dislike the 2 tutors main. I have had a few games where I have drawn 2 early, and it sucks. I want to go 1 main 1 side.

3) can anyone talk me out of a 2 CS / 4 Spell Snare split. I don't know if its because I think its a good idea, or just because I only have 2 Korean CSs. (Seriously, it's confusing.) Also, what about Mana Leak? as you can see I'm leaning away from the colorless lands, and even then I run into situations where I can't counter on my 2nd/3rd turn. Is counterspell for the late game, snare for the early? I know it seems better to tap down 4 for Espeth with UU showing. I really like that signal, (and having my money where my mouth is...) but Mana Leak seems better turns 2-4. Also Basic Plains, Basic Island is on occasion the correct drops 1st and 2nd.

4) I don't care for ponder, and would take top over it were it not for FoW. Has anyone tried Disrupt or something that effects the opponent more instead? I fully suspect this is a wrenched idea, and that ponder is just the workhorse it needs to be.


Landstill was what brought me into legacy years ago (I played Ur) and I have missed it. After wandering threw about 5 very different decks seriously, I understand it a great deal better. I look forward to joining the conversation.

[rockout]

You live in Hartford, CT, do you plan on going to The Grid later on this month? If so, message me, I will describe the meta to you.

[mossivo1986]

So I may return to the world of tournament legacy later this month. Here is the list I am testing. It is not the list I want to run.

Welcome back. I'm glad to see a former landstill player come into the light again :) Do you have M.W.S.? If so I can deffinately test with you against the meta and maybe we can do some mirror wars haha.

-As for your list there are some things I would recommend, but honestly it looks solid. From reading your post it looks like your questions you are leading yourself in the right direction, which is very difficult as it seems for other landstill pilots.

1 Academy Ruins
1 Dust Bowl/Wasteland
3 Usine de Mishra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Poluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra

This is solid, though I would cut down on your delta count. You don't want too many fetchlands as you want to be as resiliant to stifle as you possibly can be. This resiliancy also has to lead you equally away from wasteland too.

Basic>Fetch>Non-Basic>Legacy

That said your land count is about average, maybe 1 too many but thats all in personal preferance so I won't bother you too much with it. I would suggest:
-3 delta
+1 plains
+1 Tolaria West

This leaves you with 23 slots for lands which is perfectly fine, which means your currently +1 on slots.

For organizational purposes im going to break your model down to the different slots and i'll give you the numbers and options you have for an optimal list in my eyes.

Current Draw:11

2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
1 Jace Beleren
4 Standstill

Originally I was an avid supporter of ponder in Landstill. I fealt like it gave you such a huge advantage in the mirror with the early game. While it does do what you want it do, too often it ends up being not enough. You want cards that when you cast them are going to make lasting impressions on not only your game plan but also be as much a must answer threat as you can possibly have. This lead me to run 1 top, then 2. Currently I run 3 top because of Ghusta; which in retrospect I would never go without. I was totally wrong about that.

Revised Draw:10

3 brainstorm
3 Top
3 standstill
1 jace

This is the drawing plan that i've been recommending to everyone who plays landstill for the most part. Not only is it consistent but it also gives you -a- a win condition and also doesn't screw you with multiple standstills in bad situations. No auto losses is the key with this draw set up. Also to note, with jace not only is multiple tops not a problem, but it also serves as getting you those precious fetches to shuffle them away! Also to note cutting one draw spell leaves you with 2 additional slots.

Current Permission: 10

3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell

This setup is fine. Some people prefer running counterspell and the like. I personally like the idea of a 4-2 split with spell snare and vendillion clique instead for added win condition as well as control disruption and a pretty decent threat. Its all up to you though, but I would say thats about the standard list for pemission is what you currently have.

Current Removal:9

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Wrath of God
1 Humility

Don't cut yourself short on removal. Re-add the Wrath and stick with that. It seems perfect to me. If your running into alot of merfolk maybe pack some additional path to exiles, but honestly this suit is really solid as well.

Win Cons:3

2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Decree of Justice

Once again don't cut yourself short, re-ad the decree of justice. Its the best win condition in the format if not the game. It simply wins games because of its inevitability. Its a standard. Geoff usually runs 3, but like you I favor the 2-2 split with Elspeth.

Utility:

1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Enlightened Tutor

For some reason my numbers arn't adding up. I think you should have 4 utility slots but I can't figure it out. What you have currently is fine, but for a more optimal approach try vindicate or wish. Both are the perspective standards and offer a wide variety of answers.

1) I think I need more removal, and have 3 vindicates in the mail. not sure where/want to cut. I also think Runed Halo is hot. I want one main I think.

3 vindicates is good if thats the approach you want your going to want to run more wastelands. I tested runed halo for a while with wish still and found it to be not neccesary. Just not what I wanted much like ponder.

2) I dislike the 2 tutors main. I have had a few games where I have drawn 2 early, and it sucks. I want to go 1 main 1 side.

cunning wish or vindicate is what I would suggest once again. If you run wish you have the bonus of still getting tutor.

As for the rest thats up to you. For my personal list see earlier in the thread, i'm sure its on here atleast half a dozen times with the most recent list obviously being close to the one I play. You can also chech clemslansing.com in the forums section and go to magic the gathering decklists and youll see my landstill journal where I go through my experiance with the deck and all the information I have collected ect. its a nice long read :) print it out and read it over the crapper. haha

anyways kudos.

-Moss

[Shawn]

In MN, there's always at least 1-2 Stax decks running around.

How many people show up for the $6 ones? I haven't been up recently due to school, but I most likely will this weekend when I visit my brother.

Why arent you running Meddling Mages in the board?

I would like to run Mage, but I'm running I use Halo due to lack of space since it can also be swapped for the clunky Wogs and Humility against decks like tempo thresh.

Unless you plan on playing against tes more then once in a tourney Id really rather sacrfice the matchup.

That's fair. I've been really liking Tops main and Counterbalance board, essentially Marius Hausmann's build, but with a 3rd Top, 4th Cbalance side and two more Decrees. Here's his list: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...postcount=1212 Counterbalance is gold against the slightly difficult to very difficult matchups, like loam, and RG sligh. I'm confused as to what to sideboard in and out in some matchups, like aggro loam, where I can imagine wanting to bring in blasts, Counterbalance, Relic, and Ajani. If someone could help me out, that would be great.

[Citrus-God]

How many people show up for the $6 ones? I haven't been up recently due to school, but I most likely will this weekend when I visit my brother.

They're $7. Also, I do not attend those. I could go to a few and scout the attendances and such.

I would like to run Mage, but I'm running I use Halo due to lack of space since it can also be swapped for the clunky Wogs and Humility against decks like tempo thresh.

The more I play the deck, the more I appreciate Wrath of God. Humilities are always questionable for me while playing against decks that can just board enchantment hate against you.

Halo isn't very good against combo. You cast Halo on Tendrils, they cast Ad Nauseam. It just plain sucks playing against TES. If you want something versatile and is good against TES, I guess boarding in Counterbalances is a good plan. Just don't board Counterbalance against Thresh, and you should be set. Reason for this is that the edge you have over Thresh is that all the cards in your deck are redundant.

That's fair. I've been really liking Tops main and Counterbalance board, essentially Marius Hausmann's build, but with a 3rd Top, 4th Cbalance side and two more Decrees. Here's his list: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...postcount=1212 Counterbalance is gold against the slightly difficult to very difficult matchups, like loam, and RG sligh. I'm confused as to what to sideboard in and out in some matchups, like aggro loam, where I can imagine wanting to bring in blasts, Counterbalance, Relic, and Ajani. If someone could help me out, that would be great.

Run the 3rd Top maindeck. Tops are good no matter what. But yeah, I agree with the 4th CB in the board. The sideboard should have Ajani just because CB/Top is insane. Elspeth is nutty here too.

[Shawn]

Running Mage over Halo is probably right, since the creature decks I'd be sided Halo in against have a low threat density, and my other removal is usually enough.

Run the 3rd Top maindeck. Tops are good no matter what. But yeah, I agree with the 4th CB in the board. The sideboard should have Ajani just because CB/Top is insane. Elspeth is nutty here too.

I do have the third top in the main, (of that list, not the wish version I'm running) sorry I wasn't clear about that. I would like to find a room for a fourth.

[Citrus-God]

I do have the third top in the main, (of that list, not the wish version I'm running) sorry I wasn't clear about that. I would like to find a room for a fourth.

With Standstills, 4 SDTs might be a stretch. However, you lack library manipulation to assemble Counterbalance + Top within a reasonable amount of time, so running 4 SDTs makes sense.