[Deck] Solidarity

[KZhang]

i'm pretty sure they wont unban frantic as well, but one can always hope.

and i dont think they will ever ban brainstorm.

[cjva]

actually baning brainstorm whould be all in line with wotc. they banned top in extended and restricted b-storm in vintage.

playing with top/b-storm takes up time and b-storm are almost like ancestal in most decks.

[3duece]

Banning brainstorm would be interesting. It would push land counts up and make force of will more difficult to play, definitely take thresh down a notch.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Yeah... let's just not give WotC any bad ideas.

Besides, commenting on possible bannings and unbannings in this thread is far less relevant than, for example, an erudite discussion about our favourite High Tide art. I like that with the fish by Amy Weber.

[KZhang]

how many arts are there btw? 3?

is a 3 dreams in place of a meditate so that he fourth meditate can go to the sideboard a very bad idea?

[GreenOne]

Yeah... let's just not give WotC any bad ideas.

Besides, commenting on possible bannings and unbannings in this thread is far less relevant than, for example, an erudite discussion about our favourite High Tide art. I like that with the fish by Amy Weber.

I'm playing with the Anson Maddocks one*, and I love it.

If this was in the New and Developmental Forum I'd also add:

IN BEFORE LOCK.


* EDIT:Also got them signed by Dave Gearhart. That's pimp.

[Silent Requiem]

I just thought that I would mention (for other players new to solidarity) that I am on page 53 of the 129 page "original" solidarity thread linked to in the first post. It has already been so worthwhile.

Not only do you understand why certain card choices are considered standard, but very often stack abusing tricks are discussed that I simply would not have come up with on my own. Not only has it already been worth reading already, I am certain it will be worth my time to re-read it in a month or three.

Seriously, if you really want to play this deck well, you will thank yourself.

-Silent Requiem

PS. I have (and prefer) a full set of the Anson Maddocks High Tides, and I own two of the Amy Webber. Bizarrely, I would probably play with a set of the Drew Tucker if I had them. I say bizarre because I normally do not like his work, but it really works when depicting an underwater scene.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I just thought that I would mention (for other players new to solidarity) that I am on page 53 of the 129 page "original" solidarity thread linked to in the first post. It has already been so worthwhile.

Not only do you understand why certain card choices are considered standard, but very often stack abusing tricks are discussed that I simply would not have come up with on my own. Not only has it already been worth reading already, I am certain it will be worth my time to re-read it in a month or three.

Seriously, if you really want to play this deck well, you will thank yourself.

I couldn't agree more with this. It may seem like a major enterprise to read through over a hundred pages of comments but it definitely pays off. The thread was 30 - 40 pages long when i started playing the deck but i have re-read the entire thing at least one more time since i haven't played much in some time and needed to refresh things up. And not only do you get a solid knowledge of the deck, card choices, tricks (i love the stack hijack against Iggy Pop) but the old thread is in itself a piece of history of the format because Solidarity was one of the "Legacy big three" for a very long period, before the Couterbalance era.

[Jak]

So I have a few questions, but first, here's my list.

3 Delta
3 Strand
12 Island

4 Brainstorm
3 Opt
1 Peek
4 Impulse
1 Flash of Insight

4 High Tide
4 Reset
3 Turnabout
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
2 Brainfreeze

4 Remand
4 Force of Will
2 Cryptic Command

SB
1 Brainfreeze
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Twincast
4 Wipe Away
4 Hydroblast/Spell Snare

Yeah, I run one Flash because I hate drawing it, so it really is only in there for the occasional Brainfreeze on myself. Now, SB is tough against Counter/Top decks. I want to bring in 4 Wipe Away, but what should I take out? I also may want to run 4 Spell Snare to fight against combo and then also to just beat the crao out of Counterbalance by countering it and/or slowing their win down by countering Goyf. If I do have all that, what should I take out? Is it too much?

[Bahamuth]

First of all, if you run 4 Wipe Away, you only want to bring in 3 because of Wish. I personally think 4 is too much, since they will clog up in your hand together with Command. Spell Snare isn't that great at fighting combo at all. ANT can very often play around it, or just resolve a Chant.

I would run 3 Wipe Away and take out 2 Remand for 2 Wipe Away.

[Silent Requiem]

Well, I have just gotten through the 129 page original thread, and I have a few comments and questions.

Re Meditate: At one point there was a huge debate about whether or not to run 4 Meditate MD. In fact, 4 in the MD was the starting point, but various people advocated putting one in the wishboard. Although the arguement was never definitively settled, over time most people seemed to move towards playing 3 in the MD and 1 in the SB.

For myself, I prefer 4 in the MD. I do not wish to debate this again, as I have read the arguements for and against, and have made up my own mind from playtesting. 4 MD is perhaps a bit of a cushion, and as I improve as a player I may well feel able to go down to 3. Or, it may be that because I test so much against aggro control I do not feel able to "waste" time wishing for meditate.

Either way, given that I need a draw card in the wishboard, would it be better to go with Peer through Depths or Three Wishes? I am naturally inclined to go with Peer, as it digs deeper and costs less. However, it does reveal that card, and Wishes could potentially let me use three cards rather than one. I'd love the input of more experienced players on this point.

Re splash: At one point there were three splashes considered; red, green, and white. Red seems to be largely ignored since meddling mage has become less common, but green and white both offer useful cantrips and low mana effects.

I do appreciate that there is no consensus on whether splash is better than mono blue, but is there a consensus on which colour is the better splash if you are going to splash?

Bound/Determined v Orims chant or Abeyance seems largely a matter of personal choice.

Honey Drop v Nodes is irrelevant as they are identical.

Grip (in green) is nice, but I don't know if it is necessary with Wipe Away.

Personally, I think white looks stronger, as you can use Orim's Chant & Abeyance depending on the situation/matchup. It can also slow down the clock on aggro-control, which is what we seem to need most. But then, I am probably biased, as I played mono-white control in vintage.

Edit:

Re Swift Silence: I have been taking a look at what white/blue might have to offer, and I came up with a rules type question. If I cast Brain Freeze on myself (because I am looking for flash of insight) and I then cast Swift Silence, do I get to draw a card for every copy of Brain Freeze I counter, or just one for the original card?

-Silent Requiem

[KZhang]

hi,

i too prefer 4 meditates MB. everytime i draw the card i replace for meditate i have always wished it was meditate instead.

i personally think three wishes in the sb is superior to peer. but i'm still relatively undecided on this.

i prefer the monoblue version, though abeyance or determined can be useful given the metagame

(the monoblue one so that my entire deck will be black border. =/)

[Tacosnape]

@Peer Through Depths: For what it's worth, before I sold this deck off, I started running quad Peer Through Depths main. Skyrocketed my consistency. My list was:

12 Island
6 Fetches
4 Brainstorm
4 Opt
4 Impulse
4 Peer Through Depths
4 High Tide
4 Reset
4 Force of Will
3 Cunning Wish
3 Turnabout
3 Meditate
3 Remand
2 Brain Freeze

[Silent Requiem]

I confess that I like the "purity" of the mono blue deck, but the truth is that we are too slow in even the random metagame that I am in. We can deal with that in one of two ways: go faster, or slow down our opponents.

It is not really possible for us to go faster. We absolutely need to have 4ish lands in play to go off reliably. Until that changes, or blue gains a way to drop more than one land per turn via instants (which would rock hard) we cannot move faster than we are.

That leaves slowing our opponents. The traditional blue tactic is to counter/bounce. This requires us to match our opponent card for card, however, which we cannot do as our storm engine takes up most of the deck. We therefore need to try something else.

Here, both Orim's Chant and Abeyance have huge potential. Given that we only need 4 turns to set up, the fact that neither card actually removes our opponent's ability to harm us is not an issue. All we are really interested in buying is the option to play an aditional land. I have yet to see anything so cost effective in blue that does the same thing.

@Tacosnape: You sold your deck!? But you were, like, one of the Solidarity players!

Edit @ Tacosnape: I see you cut Flash of Insight for the Peers. I recall that Deep6er had some deeply unpleasant things to say about people who did that, but he, well, I tended not to find his arguments as compelling as some other people's. How did that work out for you? Did you consider also dropping to 1 Freeze MD and going to 4 Wishes? It would seem like a good idea if you can't abuse the Brain Freeze/ Flash of Insight synergy.

-Silent Requiem

[Van Phanel]

Update to the opening post(s).

Sections 4c and 7 added.

@Peer through Depths: Might be worth a try. I guess I'll get to play more Legacy in 2 weeks when PTQs are over for me.

[deadlock]

Thanks for the effort of creating such a great primer.

I agree mostly with you analysis of the opening hands. Hand 10 is difficult, but i would most likely keep it, especially on the draw. Where you will see an additional 4 cards if you can Remand something.

About adding more tips and tricks, going into more detail how exactly you wittle down a hand full of counters / other disruption from an opponent.
Using Tides and Resets as bait and refill with Meditate while building up on lands, besides remanding you own spells seems good.

Another point, where i could need some advice is, when to ideally bounce a CB (with SDT in play), if you expect that your opponent floats a three mana spell on the top of his library?
Depending on when he uses his Top to put another spell on the top and the cmc 3 spell below it.
Most common scenarios are in my endphase or in his upkeep. In both cases there is a constraint on how much mana you will have to start the combo (-3 mana from the Wipe, -1 Tide would require 5 lands and a Reset with no further disruption factored in).
To be able to bounce it at the end of their turn is quite unlikely, because they will have the 3cmc most likely.

For the beginner a short note about Extirpate could be useful as well:
Against Landstill make sure that you dont walk into Extirpate, which is one of the few decks, where its actually feasible to play that card (at least in the Wish version).
If you cast a spell and have more copys of it in your hand, cast without passing priority, so that the Extirpate wont knock out the addtional copys out of your hand. (This may be common knowledge already, dont know).

[johanessen]

Anyone tryed to Add SDT to the deck? Playing fetchlands it's a continious cantrip and can be used to draw a card when we go combo. Also, and maybe that's overkilling, add counterbalance as protection while we get all pieces on turn 4.

Okay, adding CB changes the playstyle of the deck completely but maybe adds consistency. In my opinion Counterbalance is in the top3 of blue cards in Legacy.

[Roman Candle]

Anyone tryed to Add SDT to the deck? Playing fetchlands it's a continious cantrip and can be used to draw a card when we go combo. Also, and maybe that's overkilling, add counterbalance as protection while we get all pieces on turn 4.

Okay, adding CB changes the playstyle of the deck completely but maybe adds consistency. In my opinion Counterbalance is in the top3 of blue cards in Legacy.

The problem with this, though, is that Counterbalance and SDT aren't instant speed, and therefore screw with your combo. Lands are already a bitch to draw midcombo, and to increase this would be very bad.

[Arcadia]

I don't understand why people keep suggesting some kind of cards.
Solidarity = blue instant + basic/fetchlands. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think that pairing vs threshold is not as easy as posted in the first post.
Any threshold runs 3/4 spell snares . Maybe faeries (ugr) should be added here.

I'm testing with 2 cryptics md..it's not bad but it's really slow. What about rescind (1UU, boomerang, cycling 2)? Sure cryptic is best but this does what you want from a cryptic 1 turn before. And when you draw it, costs 2 not 1UUU to draw a card.

[GreenOne]

There's also Repeal to consider. It costs 3 so bounces counterbalance pretty well, unfortunately doesn't work against chalice.