You're list is similar to the one i solemnly swear by, mine.Originally Posted by Berzerked
About Trygon + Pridemage, people tell me not to do it all the time, but I consistently love the combo (second favorite only to Goyf + Confidant, so you see, I'm stuck playing 5c) and I'm almost always happy to see either one or both. Plus I like the fact that Trygon has evasion.
You know I didn't even consider that fact that you can't Vial Plansewalkers. I obviously know this, but I guess it slipped my mind with all my current testing with Noble Hierarch and Elspeth in NQGw. Vial =/= mana
Well, since you tried, I might as well post my RGW so you can get some action.
2 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Watchwolf
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Woolly Thoctar
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Plateau
3 Savannah
3 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
56 cards. I'm going to test Vial just so I can prove to myself, at least, that it isn't worth it in 3c.
Other than that, what would you suggest I test in those slots? 2/2 Jitte/Scroll? Are you still backing Scroll?
I'll try PtE, though I'm going to maintain the mentality that I won't like it. We'll see.
I agree that Isamaru is weak, and he'd be long gone if I thought there was anything better to replace him with. I have tested Lavamancer, and have not liked him at all.
Yeah i've searched the Gatherer for a replacement for Isamaru and there just isn't one at the moment. I am backing Scroll, despite the fact that i don't use it anymore. I wanted to change it up a little, so i did. It's won me alot of games, and just squeezes in the little amounts of damage the deck needs when it's in hopeless late-game mode. It makes it more consistent.
Jitte is a must run in my opinion. It's like Bob, everytime i land it and it's unanswered it wins me the game. Hands down. I ramped it up to 12 last week!!!
PTE was just an answer to my prayers in terms of the replacement for STP. I've advocated STP, then slowly started moving towards PTE. It makes the deck fast in the sense that, hey they don't gain 5 life, bc STP is essentially a time walk because you have to have 2 attack steps to make up for the life.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
Have you guys thought about Skyshroud Elite in the Isamaru slot? More conditional than Isamaru but at least Kird Ape size.
I really like that list, and I noticed you mentioned trying Magma Jet if you get manaflooded, did that not work out for you?
Thanks. Magma Jet is one of those cards I want to play a full set of, so I'm going to test -1 land for Doran, then if I keep getting flooded, I'll probably drop a Mire, the Doran (unless it turns out to be good enough to warrant dropping something else, though as a singleton, I doubt it), a Vindicate and a Sculler for the set of Jets.
Edit: Oh, and about Skyshroud, I just don't like his conditionality, especially with more and more decks able to fetch basics in an attempt to fight Wasteland and Moons. I feel like Isamaru is just better, and I would need to go up to 3 copies of him before adding Skyshroud (which is completely unecessary now that we have Nacatl).
That being said, one of the reasons I like Ape so much is his ass of 3, so I might as well test Skyshroud while I'm at it anyway.
@Berzerked: What are your thoughts of taking your original list (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...&postcount=396) and changing it as so:
-2 Windswept Heath
-1 Savannah
+2 Umezawa's Jitte
+1 Bayou
Swapping out the Savannah for the Bayou because black is slightly more dominant (and important, imo) than white in your list (4 Confidant vs. 3 Pridemage) and dropping the fetchlands for Jitte. I realize that it's already on top of so much other removal, but Jitte does several important other things:
1. Speeds up your clock considerably.
2. Helps offset Bob damage (in case there's a ground stall for whatever reason)
3. Kills enemy Jittes.
Seems good to me, but I haven't been able to test your list yet. Have you tried it yet?
Just to give sme perspective in the color build discussion, in the goblin thread, we have no dificulties discussing MonoRed, Rb, Rg, Rbg and Rw, all in the same thread, because the deck focus doesen't change. Guss taht in here is kind of the same situation.
If someone posted a Food-Chain Goblins deck, it would belong to a diferent thread, becouse it has a diferent focus.
So I guess you have to stay open to every color.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
For those trying the 4c-5c, have you considered Putrid Leech?
Team Giancoli. Rocking the mediocrity since 2008.
I have not tested Jitte in 4-5c yet, and I'm currently in the process of testing it in 3c, so we'll see how I like it there.
Here's the color breakdown for that list:
W: 10 (4)
U: 2
B: 11
R: 12 (4)
G: 13 (4)
In parentheses are requirements for Ape and Nacatl.
As you can see, G is my most needed color, closely followed by R. That explains the 2 Taiga.
Superficially, B seems to be the next most needed, but if you count Nacatl's requirements, W is more needed. This was my logic when turning my manabase. Now, it may be that realistically B is more needed, but I haven't run into that problem yet.
As far as dropping 2 Heaths, no, they fetch everything except Badlands and Volcanic Island. Mire doesn't fetch Tropical and Savannah. If I were to drop a Savannah (which I would if reducing landcount), I can't drop a fetch that grabs it. So, I'd have to drop 1 Mire and 1 Savannah if I were to drop to 18 land. Both Heath and Mire fetch Bayou if I were to replace Savannah with Bayou, so I'd rather have Heath.
I do like the idea of Jitte, though, and will definitely try that out if I go to 18.
I have a question about the five color lists...It seems like the only thing that people use blue for is tribal flames, and trygon predator. I was just wondering if those two cards are really worth adding blue to the mix. It seems that pridemage nearly obsoletes predator, and that it seems like too much effort to try and set up a 5-damage tribal flames.
Exactly Valtrix, it's not worth it to open yourself to land hate/inconsistencies for such little reward.
Team Giancoli. Rocking the mediocrity since 2008.
i agree it does seem to wreck the mana base for just that 1 card.why not just run price of progress?it will do more damage to your opp. than you most of the time.
and what is the verdict on wasteland?
is it worth squeezing in?
I agree with you on PoP. I'm personally testing it but don't bring it up again. It's been discussed numerous times and we have some impatient folks on this here Zoo thread. Its just personal preference.
As for Wasteland, it seems poor. I haven't tested it but I feel as if all the lnads should produce colored mana for Ape and Nacatl. I wouldn't want to cut fetches and I definitely won't wanna cut threats.
Team Giancoli. Rocking the mediocrity since 2008.
Well, I think that it might be useful to narrow the debate down, if possible. It seems that there is a large argument of 3c vs. 4-5c. People are lumping 5c and 4c together, but I think that the two are way different, in terms of consistency (and somewhat cards). In that respect I would agree that 3c is better than 5c for sure, but I think it becomes a lot less clear when you're not splashing for much at all (ie, just confidant). I know the debate has been hashed out quite a bit, but I'd just like to point out that I think there needs to be a distinction between the two, because 4c is not nearly the same as 5c, and 4c is (usually) hardly different than 3c at all.
I play a singleton Tropical Island to boost Tribal Flames, Gaea's Might and Might of Alara. The domain pump spells cost 1 mana but can deal 5 damage so long as you have a creature to benefit from it. Also it means you have a way to kill fatties such as Tarmogoyf without having to resort to things like Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile. The pump spells are also really good with double strikers such as Viashino Slaughtermaster and Boros Swiftblade. Jitte is great here as well as the double strikers deal combat damage twice resulting in twice the number of counters put on Umezawa's Jitte.
I'm not really trying 4c right now, but yeah, putrid leech seems like it wouldn't be bad against a lot of the good decks right now. When you're the aggressor, it is a 4/4 body, and if a blue deck takes it, that's fine since they'll have to pay life to make it useful, which is exactly what you want them to do.
I've been playing with vial a bit, and I'm really starting to like it. EOT creatures is pretty great, and it's been helping a lot against blue.
So, I have a question for vial supporters: How many do you think is the right number? I've been discussing with one of my friends a bit, and he thinks that 3 seems better than 4. The reasoning is that we really don't need vial, even if it helps us. We can still have incredible starts without it, so it's not a necessity that we have to have it right away. By not running that 4th, we don't have to worry so much about drawing a second one and having it be a dead draw. (Because vial is really dead to us in multiples, unless you're facing heavy land-hate and need one at 1 and 2 for some reason.)
I guess I'm not exactly sure what I think about that. I guess I see the reasoning, but I feel like if we're running vial that we probably want the maximum of it, so that we can use it more often, but at the same time we're not able to abuse it quite as much, so it seems less vital to have the max. Also, I almost feel that 3 vials could swap out straight for lands if you're running 20 or 21 lands (maybe not quite 20...), which would mean we wouldn't even have to find something else to cut.
Will keep testing...
I run the allowed 4 of. Turn one Aether Vial is one of the strongest plays you can make in legacy and can often win you the game against certain decks. What you cut for the vial is up to you but most likely it will be something like 1-2 lands and 2-3 non-creature spells. Aether Vial works kind of like a mana accelerator so you can cut maybe one land for every two vials you put into your deck so you'll be running 18-19 lands instead of the usual 20-21. To make room for the other 2-3 vials you don't want to cut creatures as the vial only works on creatures so you cut 2-3 copies of your weakest other spells.
Amen.
@ joey223: Wasteland seems terrible. I know, here i go again dismissing cards. But in a deck where you need land types to make your dudes good, it doesn't seem good at all. I'm surprised that Brian Six guy did well with 3 random Wastelands just chilling. I guess bc his build was more Goyf Sligh-ish burn..
@ Guevera59: If i ever ran black in my build, i would run the hell out of Putrid Leech. He seems amazing. I haven't tested him, but 4/4s for 2 are good right?
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
I think Putrid Leech + Fetchlands + Dark Confidant is a lot of lifeloss. If I had to cut one, Putrid Leech would be the first to go. Look at the power of the other two drops in this deck. Putrid Leech isn't in the same league imho.
peace,
4eak
But then again, i don't like Dark Confidant.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote