[Deck] Solidarity

[cjva]

okey guys. Got nothing special to add to the conversation, but i'v been reading the M10 Rule's changes. Wizard just made things worse....

Source

No more fetching for cards removed with flash of insight....


"The Details: This is, for the most part, another cut-and-paste terminology change. Every card that removes something from the game, from Jester's Cap to Astral Slide to Identity Crisis, will be getting errata to use the word "exile" instead. But none of these cards are functionally changing.

However, the acknowledgment that this zone is, in fact, fully within the game does bring about functional changes to the six Wishes, Ring of Ma'rûf, and the Research half of Research // Development. These cards let you get cards from "outside the game," which has been ruled to include your card collection (in casual games), your sideboard (in tournament games), and the removed-from-the-game zone. That's no longer the case. Exiled cards are not outside the game (and you could argue that they never really were), so these cards will no longer be able to access cards in that zone. Their primary functionality—getting cards from your collection or sideboard—remains unchanged, of course."

No more flooating guys....

"The Details: This is mostly a change on the rules side. Currently, rule 300.3 of the Comprehensive Rules says "When a phase ends (but not a step), any unused mana left in a player's mana pool is lost." That'll change to "When a step or phase ends, any unused mana left in a player's mana pool is lost." A few cards, such as Upwelling and Sakura-Tribe Springcaller, will get minor errata to their "mana doesn't empty from mana pools" abilities just to specify that the mana doesn't empty when steps end either. Other cards affected by this change, such as Radha, Heir to Keld and Braid of Fire, will not receive errata."



Thats about it.... Even thou that they change some stuff in combat, Damage will no longer use the stack and so on....

Right now im as pissed at Wizards as i was when they changed to the 6'th edition rules back in 99, or when they released Saga-block...

[Bahamuth]

Wow, fuck that, seriously. I was used to floating mana almost half of my games against everything that counters. This also means we can't use Stroke on ourselves anymore if we suspect Blessing or whatever...

[Van Phanel]

Fuck you wizards. Seriously!

Their ideas aren't even all that bad, what I don't like is that they change the functionality of cards without need.

For us that won't even matter too much as more often than not, the effect of Stroke can also be achieved with an additional Turnabout or Cryptic Command. And when we know that we can't Wish back cards that were removed with Flash of Insight, we can just play that much more careful. This is not going to kill the deck or something.

The mana-floating thingy isn't too bad either, it just makes planning harder.

Both changes will only matter rarely.

[cjva]

Fuck you wizards. Seriously!

Their ideas aren't even all that bad, what I don't like is that they change the functionality of cards without need.

For us that won't even matter too much as more often than not, the effect of Stroke can also be achieved with an additional Turnabout or Cryptic Command. And when we know that we can't Wish back cards that were removed with Flash of Insight, we can just play that much more careful. This is not going to kill the deck or something.

The mana-floating thingy isn't too bad either, it just makes planning harder.

Both changes will only matter rarely.

Came to about the same conclusion on the train to work. The biggest problem i see in this is an ongoing trend. I feel that Wizards is trying to lean the game more and more towards "kiddyplay". Big cool creatures, lesser interaction with cards (the kind of interaction we abuse) Super-duper-ultra-rare aso.

But as a solidarity-player i think that we can play around thous changes, the only matchup i can see that this is having a real inpact in is the stax-matchup with tap-effects in upkeep.

A litle question after this changes has been effective.

Is Flash of Insight such a good card anymore? If so, is it still needed to play it as a 2-of? Or is there any card that might do better in our decks?

Edit: Another question that spring to my mind. Is it worth playing with 3 Cunning Wish (as in the 4 High tide MD configuration) or 4 Cunning Wish as i play (in my 1 High Tide in the wishboard configuration).

[Shimster]

Another nail in the coffin, oh well ...

Flash of Insight is still usefull due to its Brain Freeze synergy, although you have to be a hell lot more careful while decking yourself.

Is this the reason to play a second "Target player draws a (or x) cards" card in the sideboard? I would really like to test this, but I've no spare time which I could spend on Legacy testing right now.

@ Van Phanel: I think you have to rework your primer, don't you?

[Funky-kun]

Now that is absolutely stupid... I am strongly considering playing by the old rules on MWS and in casual play, but this f*cks up tournaments pretty bad. :/

[Bahamuth]

My meta has become infested with Merfolk, while Tempo Thresh, Dreadstill and CB Thresh still see play. As an answer to this, how about splash red for 6 Blasts sideboard? Seems like an all-round answer, isn't dead at times like Spell Snare is, and is good in both pre- and mid-combo. I'm also considering adding a 19th land to fight Stifle (+Wasteland with splash).

[cjva]

Now that is absolutely stupid... I am strongly considering playing by the old rules on MWS and in casual play, but this f*cks up tournaments pretty bad. :/

That is probably the worst thing you can do.

Work on finding a way around it instead.

[jodawe]

okey
"The Details: This is, for the most part, another cut-and-paste terminology change. Every card that removes something from the game, from Jester's Cap to Astral Slide to Identity Crisis, will be getting errata to use the word "exile" instead. But none of these cards are functionally changing.

However, the acknowledgment that this zone is, in fact, fully within the game does bring about functional changes to the six Wishes, Ring of Ma'rûf, and the Research half of Research // Development. These cards let you get cards from "outside the game," which has been ruled to include your card collection (in casual games), your sideboard (in tournament games), and the removed-from-the-game zone. That's no longer the case. Exiled cards are not outside the game (and you could argue that they never really were), so these cards will no longer be able to access cards in that zone. Their primary functionality—getting cards from your collection or sideboard—remains unchanged, of course." [/i]

What is the point of this? Adding another zone doesn't make the game less confusing.

The interaction of Cunning Wish and Flash of Insight was a huge part of playing this deck. I can't count the number of times I've wished for a flashed Brain Freeze, Stroke of Genius, Reset or Meditate.

I suppose this wouldn't piss me off so much if I didn't get back into magic two days ago. I was out completely then I got the urge to throw Solidarity back together... Then they slap some new bs rules that weaken my pet deck.

On the bright side I didn't throw together MUC and wasted a bunch of money on Morphlings that just got nerfed.

[KZhang]

i'm sorry. i'm now confused. whats the difference between a phase an a step?

what do you mean by we can no longer float mana?

[cjva]

i'm sorry. i'm now confused. whats the difference between a phase an a step?

what do you mean by we can no longer float mana?

ex. Beginning phase consist of Untap step, upkeep step, draw step.

As it is now we can start going of in opponents upkeep, but not play reset, so we need to float mana to the first step where we can play reset, in opponents draw step, after he/she has drawn their card.

This can be useful in a couple of situations. Two that springs to my mind is;

1: Against stax that has tangle wire online. if we wanna go of, we can to it in respons to their tangle wire trigger, play tide, spells that we need to, when we need to play reset, we tap out, float our mana and let him proceed to draw step. In his draw step we play reset and keep going of. Manapool empties when we change phase, and go into pre combat main phase.

2: Against control. We know that he dont have any counters on hand, or we now whats on the top and he have CB online. We dont want to let him draw that one card, so we start go off, same procedure as above, float unused mana, and play reset in draw step.

But, no more. Wont effect the Control match up i guess, but will definatly change the stax match up big time, i guess.

[Dark_Cynic87]

i'm sorry. i'm now confused. whats the difference between a phase an a step?

what do you mean by we can no longer float mana?

Number of people the rule changes will be helping: One and counting...

Write wizards and tell them to give you the chance to vote on it. I did, and I think if enough people do that we may have a chance. They don't have to live with the consequences of their actions. We do. BTW, did you see the cards they used in their examples? Skyshroud Behemoth? WTF. Change some rules, w/ever. But at least use something decent like Tombstalker or something. Jesus.

*Plays Orim's Chant*
*Plays Pithing Needle naming Wizards of the Coast*
*Activates Elspeth to make all artifacts and enchantments indestructible*

Pce,

--DC

[ParkerLewis]

Write wizards and tell them to give you the chance to vote on it. I did, and I think if enough people do that we may have a chance. They don't have to live with the consequences of their actions. We do. BTW, did you see the cards they used in their examples? Skyshroud Behemoth? WTF. Change some rules, w/ever. But at least use something decent like Tombstalker or something. Jesus.

A chance of what ?

If the 6th edition rules had been decided by a vote, the stack wouldn't exist. Also, I f* beg to differ on the "they don't have to live with it, we do". That's their f* job on the line compared to your little a few hours a week or so recreational hobby. It's okay, you can swear openly here, we are play like grownups. ~NC

Now don't take the following personally, but I sincerely wish people would grow up and stop being so short-sighted they can only see any kind of change as a bad thing simply because it's changing their habits. Especially since it's not like it's the first time and history has proven them right on about all relevant aspects.

But hey, this is the internet ! You'll get TIBAs and other similar clowns to explain to you how once again they obviously know better.

/rant

[KZhang]

ex. Beginning phase consist of Untap step, upkeep step, draw step.

As it is now we can start going of in opponents upkeep, but not play reset, so we need to float mana to the first step where we can play reset, in opponents draw step, after he/she has drawn their card.

This can be useful in a couple of situations. Two that springs to my mind is;

1: Against stax that has tangle wire online. if we wanna go of, we can to it in respons to their tangle wire trigger, play tide, spells that we need to, when we need to play reset, we tap out, float our mana and let him proceed to draw step. In his draw step we play reset and keep going of. Manapool empties when we change phase, and go into pre combat main phase.

2: Against control. We know that he dont have any counters on hand, or we now whats on the top and he have CB online. We dont want to let him draw that one card, so we start go off, same procedure as above, float unused mana, and play reset in draw step.

But, no more. Wont effect the Control match up i guess, but will definatly change the stax match up big time, i guess.

ah ok. thanks alot. i'm pretty unhappy with the nerfing of wish, but maybe wizards can make us happy again by unbanning frantic search. haha.

[Fons]

Does it make sense to cut flash of insight now?

[cjva]

Does it make sense to cut flash of insight now?

Im thinking of cutting 1 insight and 1 Cunning Wish, but dont know yet.

Flash of Insight is still a very good card, but it can't help you reuse cards in the yard anymore.

[Brad Herbig]

I feel like Flash of Insight still has a place due to its flashback digging near the end of the combo if you really just need another draw spell.

[Jak]

Im thinking of cutting 1 insight and 1 Cunning Wish, but dont know yet.

Flash of Insight is still a very good card, but it can't help you reuse cards in the yard anymore.

Why would you cut a Wish?

[cjva]

Why would you cut a Wish?

its allways nice to wish from the board, but as i play the deck right now, i mostly wish from the "exile" zone.

And im running 4 wish'es in my list.

[Bahamuth]

I'm probably going to try Taco's version with 4 Peer Through Depths, cutting Flash of Insight completely. I expect the deck to be slightly better against Merfolk and Tempo Thresh. I'm also considering a 19th land, perhaps sideboard.