[M10] General Discussion on Rules Changes

[FoolofaTook]

...what I get out of that is,

Banding (If this creature attacks, the game ends in a draw.)

Look on the bright side: they haven't printed a creature with Banding in a loooooong time, and based on all the potential corner cases involved I doubt they'll let Banding within a thousand yards of a Standard tournament in the future.

Stock up on Benalish Heros and Mesa Pegasi now! Because there were only like million of each printed back in the day and they'll sell through by 2050 at the latest.

[Cire]

Ok well imagine that the giant growth was a spell that gave it +0/+3, then it would matter in that scenario. With the new system it allows toughness pumping effects to essentialy be destributed however you want, instead of to one creature.

um..what?

you attack with a 3/3 and i block with 3 1/1's and play (whenever the new rules allow you to play idk yet really) a +0/+3 spell saving all my 1/1's from your 3/3...

If I only blocked with 1 1/1 and played a +0/+3 spell on it, all my 1/1's would still be safe...

...im so confused. how would it matter if it was a +3/+3 spell or a +0/+3 spell, in either case you would block with 1 1/1 instead of 3 in you had a pump spell. Sure the new rules allow you to block with all three and still save all of them, but you never needed to or would have done so in the first place?

[Mijorre]

Banding boils down to:
1) The owner of the band assigns the damage to it. Not his opponent.
2) Banding makes flying pretty silly. Block the Hero and the Pegasus cannot fly.

[Soldar]

...what I get out of that is,

Banding (If this creature attacks, the game ends in a draw.)

I could totally get behind that. Existing multiplayer is... silly. Free-for-all is worse.

With these rules changes, why don't they just get rid of banding altogether? Maybe just replace it with something else.

Or:
Banding (This creature gets +1/+1 when it's in play. I know, we fucked up real good.)

Then we'd have legacy playable dudes on our hands. I'm okay with an influx of some Benalish Heroes or Kjeldoran Warriors attacking for 2.

On the note of learning the rules is cheating, I had a Noble Elephant on MTGO, and I 1-for-0'ed someone. Obviously, I was cheating.

[quicksilver]

um..what?

you attack with a 3/3 and i block with 3 1/1's and play (whenever the new rules allow you to play idk yet really) a +0/+3 spell saving all my 1/1's from your 3/3...

If I only blocked with 1 1/1 and played a +0/+3 spell on it, all my 1/1's would still be safe...

...im so confused. how would it matter if it was a +3/+3 spell or a +0/+3 spell, in either case you would block with 1 1/1 instead of 3 in you had a pump spell. Sure the new rules allow you to block with all three and still save all of them, but you never needed to or would have done so in the first place?

umm, you would block with 3 1/1's so you could kill his 3/3, duh.

[Cire]

umm, you would block with 3 1/1's so you could kill his 3/3, duh.

we were talking about this senario with the assumption of having a giant growth in your hand.....

[DragoFireheart]

I think we can all agree that banding is probably the worst and most annoying ability in magic. Fucks up the rules too much to be an ability.

[Michael Keller]

I think we can all agree that banding is probably the worst and most annoying ability in magic. Fucks up the rules too much to be an ability.

It only "fucks" up the rules in the hypothetical sense because no Banding cards are actually played in tournaments. If there were good ones, perhaps. But there aren't. They essentially reworked Rampage with Bushido, so don't be surprised if someday they try and clear the air with Banding by changing the name and dumbing-down the ability ever-so-slightly so people can understand what it does.

[Cire]

okay i worked it out!!! yay, lol, heres a senario where the new rules allow pump spells to be better

Old Rules:

Opponent attacks with a 3/6
I Have 3 1/1's on the Board and a giant growth in hand.
I play giant growth on 1 1/1 making it a 4/4
I block the 3/6 with a 4/4 and 2 1/1's
Opponent assignes damage to its maximum effect
End result:
My opponents 3/6 is sent to the graveyard
My 2 1/1's have been sent to the graveyard
My 4/4 (giant growthed 1/1) has survived

New Rules:

Opponent attacks with a 3/6
I Have 3 1/1's on the Board and a giant growth in hand.
I play giant growth on 1 1/1 making it a 4/4
I block the 3/6 with a 4/4 and 2 1/1's: in the order of
1. 4/4
2. 1/1
3. 1/1
Since all my creatures deal damage to the 3/6 at the same time, I have dealt lethal damage to the 3/6.
yet!
The 3/6 has to deal all 3 of it's damage to my 4/4
End result:
My opponents 3/6 is sent to the graveyard
All my creatures have survived

---------

Thus pump spells are very very very narrowly better...

[DragoFireheart]

It only "fucks" up the rules in the hypothetical sense because no Banding cards are actually played in tournaments.

Which is a good thing.

If there were good ones, perhaps. But there aren't. They essentially reworked Rampage with Bushido, so don't be surprised if someday they try and clear the air with Banding by changing the name and dumbing-down the ability ever-so-slightly so people can understand what it does.

WotC could easily change the banding ability since none of them actually describe what it does.

[chmoddity]

Boy, Banding is such an important topic I am so glad you guys just spent the better part of two pages discussing it. There are currently zero competitive creatures with this ability. The ability is weak. It has been retired. It is truly a useless topic. Can we please get back to the rather giant actual topic at hand?

[on1y0ne]

okay i worked it out!!! yay, lol, heres a senario where the new rules allow pump spells to be better

Old Rules:

Opponent attacks with a 3/6
I Have 3 1/1's on the Board and a giant growth in hand.
I play giant growth on 1 1/1 making it a 4/4
I block the 3/6 with a 4/4 and 2 1/1's
Opponent assignes damage to its maximum effect
End result:
My opponents 3/6 is sent to the graveyard
My 2 1/1's have been sent to the graveyard
My 4/4 (giant growthed 1/1) has survived

New Rules:

Opponent attacks with a 3/6
I Have 3 1/1's on the Board and a giant growth in hand.
I play giant growth on 1 1/1 making it a 4/4
I block the 3/6 with a 4/4 and 2 1/1's: in the order of
1. 4/4
2. 1/1
3. 1/1
Since all my creatures deal damage to the 3/6 at the same time, I have dealt lethal damage to the 3/6.
yet!
The 3/6 has to deal all 3 of it's damage to my 4/4
End result:
My opponents 3/6 is sent to the graveyard
All my creatures have survived

---------

Thus pump spells are very very very narrowly better...

You would have to pump after blockers are declared, not before. The Attacking player decides the blocking order, not the defending player.

In your scenario you would have to block with three 1/1s, and then the order is (As chosen by attacking player):

• Creature A 1/1
• Creature B 1/1
• Creature C 1/1

Once you know this, you Giant Growth Creature A and all three survive, since Creature A is now 4/4 and is not dealt lethal damage.

[Leftconsin]

WotC could easily change the banding ability since none of them actually describe what it does.

I'd much rather see Rampage changed to "For each creature blocking this, this gains +X/+X." What cards would that break?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

It only "fucks" up the rules in the hypothetical sense because no Banding cards are actually played in tournaments. If there were good ones, perhaps. But there aren't. They essentially reworked Rampage with Bushido, so don't be surprised if someday they try and clear the air with Banding by changing the name and dumbing-down the ability ever-so-slightly so people can understand what it does.

They already did that. The new banding's even tournament playable, although not for it's original purpose;

[Skeggi]

According to this logic, Giant Growth seems better? Is it now a Legacy staple? Should I stack up on FNM Giant Growths?

[Anusien]

Banding is fantastic in Limited. It's just not relevant anymore. Let it go.

[on1y0ne]

Combat Phase under M10 Rules:

1. Beginning of Combat Step

• Active (Attacking) Player casts spells or activates Abilities.
• Non-Active (Defending) Player casts spells or activates Abilities.

2. Declaration of Attackers Step

• All Attackers are declared and costs to attack are paid.
• Active (Attacking) Player casts Spells or activates abilities.
• Non-Active (Defending) Player casts spells or activates abilities.

3. Declaration of Blockers Step

• All Blocking assignments are declared and all costs are paid.
• *If multiple blockers are assigned to an attacking creature, Attacking Player chooses blocking order.
  
• Active (Attacking) Player casts Spells or activates abilities.
• Non-Active (Defending) Player casts Spells or activates abilities.

4. Damage Step

• *Damage is assigned and dealt. If multiple blockers are assigned to an attacking creature, damage is assigned to the blocking creatures in the blocking order. Lethal damage must be assigned to the first blocking creature before any can be assigned to the second. Lethal damage must be assigned to the second blocking creature before any can be assigned to the third, and so on. Trample damage is assigned to defending player or Planeswalkers once lethal damage is assigned to all blocking creatures.
  
• Leaves the Battlefield, goes to the graveyard, and similar abilities trigger and go on the stack.
• Active (Attacking) Player casts Spells or activates abilities.
• Non-Active (Defending) Player casts Spells or activates abilities.

5. End of Combat

• At end of Combat triggers go on the stack.
• Active (Attacking) Player casts Spells or activates abilities.
• Non-Active (Defending) Player casts Spells or activates abilities.
• Until end of Combat effects end.

* New combat rules beginning with M10

[Arsenal]

Is the above post 100% accurate? If so, that'll be a nice cheat sheet to print out and playtest with my friends.

[on1y0ne]

Is the above post 100% accurate? If so, that'll be a nice cheat sheet to print out and playtest with my friends.

Yes it is accurate. Judges are good for other things than running tournaments and giving you penalties.

[quicksilver]

Yes it is accurate. Judges are good for other things than running tournaments and giving you penalties.

True, you can often borrow cards from them.