[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[rockout]

I'd rather play commandeer as a wish target then misdirection. Cast goyf/tombstalker pitch 2 blue cards to get a win condition seems decent. Also, whats 7 mana to landstill? Not that hard to get.

[mossivo1986]

Commandeer your plainswalker anyone?

[rockout]

Commandeer your plainswalker anyone?

SAVAGE!

[mossivo1986]

Though your blue sources probobly have to be much higher. Probobly in the 21-23 range.

[GGoober]

I'm actually working on a homebrew UWr Landstill. It plays almost like tempo Thresh but drops no threats. Rather, it controls the early turns and resolves Standstill and continues the tempo to some extent before resolving key spells i.e. Fact or Fiction/Elspeth/Decree. Sometimes I even wonder if the black splash is worth it. For wish builds, you're almost splashing black for Engineered Plague in the SB and perhaps 1-2 Extirpates for the wishboard. I think red actually offers more, at least for aggro, shoring that matchup to larger proportions with Firespout, and also you get to run both REB/BEB for flexibility, improving the Threshold matchup. The only problem I see with UWr is against combo, which I think you have to play some sort of Tempo-Landstill and play out hate bears while keeping them off mana/lands.

I might pick this homebrew up this weekend or play Belcher. I'll post the list when I have results. I want to be able to show that this homebrew is worth discussing. Zoo is heavy in my meta and very little FOW.decs. Well, aggro is heavy, so I either go Landstill/Pulse or Belcher and race. My meta is very unrepresentative of the current Countertop decks and merfolks.

[FoolofaTook]

Though your blue sources probobly have to be much higher. Probobly in the 21-23 range.

Yes, and I'm not sure even then that you have Cunning Wish + 2 other blue cards when you need it. Misdirection has the advantage that all you need to have in hand is Ancestral Vision or Daze, both of which are flat cards once you reach the mid-game.

[Hitman82]

Misdirection in the sideboard of Ultimate Walker as a wish target is my guess. Maybe against Duress after you have stopped the first combo flurry? They Duress you and you Cunning Wish for Misdirection, pitch an Ancestral Vision to it and take their Orim's Chant without letting them look at your hand?

You can't target Duress with Misdirection. Duress says:

Target opponent reveals his or her hand. You choose a noncreature, nonland card from it. That player discards that card.

You would have to be playing a multiplayer game to Misdirect a Duress since the original controller of Duress has only one opponent.

[Mark Sun]

Well that's even an easier case. Wish for Misdirection, pitch Ancestral Vision to it and take a Time Walk.

Wait, what?

Edit: Good lord, is it just my settings, or when I go to "latest post" it takes me to the second-from-last page? Sigh...

[FoolofaTook]

You can't target Duress with Misdirection. Duress says:

Target opponent reveals his or her hand. You choose a noncreature, nonland card from it. That player discards that card.

You would have to be playing a multiplayer game to Misdirect a Duress since the original controller of Duress has only one opponent.

Then make it Thoughtseize. I didn't know the wording was functionally different between them.

[Citrus-God]

I'm actually working on a homebrew UWr Landstill. It plays almost like tempo Thresh but drops no threats. Rather, it controls the early turns and resolves Standstill and continues the tempo to some extent before resolving key spells i.e. Fact or Fiction/Elspeth/Decree. Sometimes I even wonder if the black splash is worth it. For wish builds, you're almost splashing black for Engineered Plague in the SB and perhaps 1-2 Extirpates for the wishboard. I think red actually offers more, at least for aggro, shoring that matchup to larger proportions with Firespout, and also you get to run both REB/BEB for flexibility, improving the Threshold matchup. The only problem I see with UWr is against combo, which I think you have to play some sort of Tempo-Landstill and play out hate bears while keeping them off mana/lands.

I might pick this homebrew up this weekend or play Belcher. I'll post the list when I have results. I want to be able to show that this homebrew is worth discussing. Zoo is heavy in my meta and very little FOW.decs. Well, aggro is heavy, so I either go Landstill/Pulse or Belcher and race. My meta is very unrepresentative of the current Countertop decks and merfolks.

Isn't the concept of Landstill already in itself a Tempo deck? I draws cards just to slow you down... SLOW YOU DOWN. Totally a Tempo concept.

[Antonius]

I'm actually working on a homebrew UWr Landstill. It plays almost like tempo Thresh but drops no threats. Rather, it controls the early turns and resolves Standstill and continues the tempo to some extent before resolving key spells i.e. Fact or Fiction/Elspeth/Decree. Sometimes I even wonder if the black splash is worth it. For wish builds, you're almost splashing black for Engineered Plague in the SB and perhaps 1-2 Extirpates for the wishboard. I think red actually offers more, at least for aggro, shoring that matchup to larger proportions with Firespout, and also you get to run both REB/BEB for flexibility, improving the Threshold matchup. The only problem I see with UWr is against combo, which I think you have to play some sort of Tempo-Landstill and play out hate bears while keeping them off mana/lands.

I might pick this homebrew up this weekend or play Belcher. I'll post the list when I have results. I want to be able to show that this homebrew is worth discussing. Zoo is heavy in my meta and very little FOW.decs. Well, aggro is heavy, so I either go Landstill/Pulse or Belcher and race. My meta is very unrepresentative of the current Countertop decks and merfolks.

I too had a UWr build going in the back of my head; the potential Synergy between Fire/Ice and Ajani Vengeant is making me :)

As for my current build, I'm no longer considering Black for my dominant off-color. White has a lot more to offer. I just don't look forward to spending 30$+ per Elspleth Acquiring Flooded Strands may be a bit of a pain, too.

[mossivo1986]

hmm how about a little remedy like this:

3 bs
3 top
3 still
1 jace

4 fire/ice
4 stp
3 ee
1 disk

4 force
3 snare
1 forbid
1 Counterspell

2 Veangent
2 Elspeth

2 wish
1 cruc

4 tundra
4 flooded
2 polluted
1 volcanic
1 plateau
3 isl
3 plai
3 mish
1 ruins
1 dust bowl

[Misplayer]

What concerns me about Vengeant is that it doesn't protect itself as well as Elspeth, or finish the game as efficiently.

The red splash is totally viable. I was talking to ELD last night about red splashes, as he recently took Nassif's deck and cut White for Red, swapping 4 Bolt for 4 StP. The strength of Firespout and REB in the sideboard is pretty insane, although in Landstill Firespout would really just be Wrath 4-6 when coming in against Merfolk/Goblins. He also commented that he believes Dreadstill has remained so strong largely due to it's access to red SB cards (Firespout/REB).

In Landstill, you'd obviously cut black for red. REB is so powerful because it comes in against more than half of the format and gives you 3+ additional Spell Snares for Counterbalance. Firespout is probably solid as well. What other options are there? Burning Wish seems strong as it can be an additional Wrath/Decree or even something like Banefire if you need to push through the final X damage (see Eli Kassis's wishboard from Sunday for other options).

I'm not even sure the maindeck needs to change with an R splash (provided you weren't running Vindicate), the sideboard options alone might make it worthwhile.

[konsultant]

Just wanted to point out the pseudo-Landstill list that placed 6th at 5k SCG legacy tournament, out of ~180 decks.



Artifacts
2 Crucible Of Worlds
3 Engineered Explosives

Instants
2 Cunning Wish
3 Daze
4 Fire / Ice
2 Forbid
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Swords To Plowshares

Planeswalkers
1 Ajani Vengeant
2 Elspeth, Knight-errant
2 Jace Beleren

Sorceries
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Decree Of Justice

Basic Lands
2 Island
2 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Polluted Delta
2 Tolaria West
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Relic Of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Meddling Mage
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Dismantling Blow
1 Extirpate
1 Misdirection
1 Path To Exile
1 Pulse Of The Fields
1 Pyroblast
1 Wing Shards

I think everybody is missing exaclty how this deck won. This deck isn't really like landstill at all. The deck has practically zero deck manipulation. Did anybody else realize that he isn't even running Brainstorm in this deck? This is built like a type two control deck with redundant bombs. There is a general consistency in what you are doing but the deck is far from consistent in how it actually plays out. The surprise factor would have been huge for this list all day. In Landstill we see the same removal cards every single game and use all of our draw manipulation to get exaclty the cards we are looking for. I played type two control very successfully for a couple years and it's whole different game when you are running a list without deck manipulation. His list isn't gonna just port into current Landstill lists and still be successful. I'd bet money that the person that built that list is a very successful type 2 player and knew exaclty what he was doing when he put it together. It is a very meta hating list and while it obviously did good for him that doesn't mean that this list has any relevence to Landstill lists. He won because of exaclty the cards he played, if somebody really wants to take a look at his deck I'd reccomend sleeving it up and playing his exact list and build off of his deck not trying to take something from his deck and add it to Landstill.

[aTn]

I think everybody is missing exaclty how this deck won. This deck isn't really like landstill at all. The deck has practically zero deck manipulation. Did anybody else realize that he isn't even running Brainstorm in this deck? This is built like a type two control deck with redundant bombs. There is a general consistency in what you are doing but the deck is far from consistent in how it actually plays out. The surprise factor would have been huge for this list all day. In Landstill we see the same removal cards every single game and use all of our draw manipulation to get exaclty the cards we are looking for. I played type two control very successfully for a couple years and it's whole different game when you are running a list without deck manipulation. His list isn't gonna just port into current Landstill lists and still be successful. I'd bet money that the person that built that list is a very successful type 2 player and knew exaclty what he was doing when he put it together. It is a very meta hating list and while it obviously did good for him that doesn't mean that this list has any relevence to Landstill lists. He won because of exaclty the cards he played, if somebody really wants to take a look at his deck I'd reccomend sleeving it up and playing his exact list and build off of his deck not trying to take something from his deck and add it to Landstill.

IMO, you are absoultely right in you analysis.

Yan and Pierre-Marc (who made fifth and second place at the 5k SCG Legacy event) are the deck's creators (Yan was the pilot for the tournament, while PM played tempo thresh). I play with them at local tournaments and playtest with them every week, so I have known the deck for a bit.

Having played against it a lot and tested it a bit, I have to say that the deck doesn't play like Landstill but more like a T2 control deck (like you said).

P.S.: Yan (the deck's pilot) made Top8 the previous day in the SCG 5k Standard tournament (about 400 players I think). He's a good Standard (and Legacy) player. He made Top8 in the Legacy event but felt too sick to continue, so they split the price and played the Top8 for fun.

[rockout]

and played the Top8 for fun.

And for the sweet trophy.

[Antonius]

In Landstill, you'd obviously cut black for red. REB is so powerful because it comes in against more than half of the format and gives you 3+ additional Spell Snares for Counterbalance. Firespout is probably solid as well. What other options are there? Burning Wish seems strong as it can be an additional Wrath/Decree or even something like Banefire if you need to push through the final X damage (see Eli Kassis's wishboard from Sunday for other options).

I'm not even sure the maindeck needs to change with an R splash (provided you weren't running Vindicate), the sideboard options alone might make it worthwhile.

Wow, I think Landstill has a lot to gain from running burning wish, considering all the bombs/answers that can be stuffed in the board:

Wrath or Akroma's Vengeance (or both?)

Decree of Justice

Pyroclasm or Firespout

Armageddon or Wildfire (both would be absolute bombs with Crucible in play)

Morningtide

Primitive Justice, Echoing Ruin or Meltdown

Ancestral Vision or Compulsive Research or Deep Analysis

Earthquake, Ghitu Fire, Banefire, Kaervek's Torch or Lightning Surge - Mainly to finish off the opponent or burn out a planeswalker, though Earthquake has the advantage of also being a boardsweeper.

Burning Landstill could be a viable option

[rockout]

It took you guys a long enough time to put that together. I've been working on burning wish for months now.

[Antonius]

It took you guys a long enough time to put that together. I've been working on burning wish for months now.

I've only been working on landstill for a week

you're mean

[rockout]

It happens. Get over it.