what part of the matchup are you having a problem with? which models?
Also are you sure your establishing the difference between multiple color loam variants as well as aggro loam?
Hey guys, been a lurker for a while and I feel ready to talk seriously about Landstill now that I have tested it against a variety of decks. Have a look at my list and please feel free to tear it up, I dig new ideas.
I know I know, looks like a 4c and there is another thread for that. My main question is should I dump red as an alt color and go pure UWb? The tropical islands would be turned into plains/islands, and Ajani V. would turn into another land. Ajani has been amazing in testing, and buys me serious time to dig for removal or counters. His built in helix is online right as my health needs help. Even used his ultimate last night vs Zoo post wrath to clear the board completely. REB and Pyroblast have been crazy vs Merfolk and the mirror. Forcing into my REB gives me serious tempo.
My weakness is mana consistency. The two Tropicals are really islands that power REB from the board. (Ajani was a test run) Nonbasic hate destroys me. Obviously I am playing in a seriously aggro infested meta, and need answers for Zoo, Goblins, Merfolk, Dreadstill, ect.
Yan’s list inspired me to try this out.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=29172
Any advice before I take this to a serious tourney?
Lands
X4 Tundra
X3 Mishra’s Factory
X4 Flooded Strand
X1 Bloodstained Mire
X3 Volcanic Island
X2 Scrubland
X1 Academy Ruins
X2 Wasteland
X1 Island
X1 Plains
White
X3 Wrath of God
X1 Humility
X4 Swords to Plowshares
X1 Eternal Dragon
X1 Decree of Justice
Blue
X4 Force of Will
X3 Spell Snare
X3 Counterspell
X4 Brainstorm
X2 Cunning Wish
X3 Standstill
Artifacts
X3 Engineered Explosives
X1 N. Disk
Walkers
X1 Jace
X2 Elspeth
X1 Ajani Vengeant
Other
X2 Vindicate
Sideboard
X1 Extirpate
X2 E. Plague
X1 Humility
X2 Negate
X1 Pyroblast
X1 Red Ele Blast
X1 Dismantling blow
X1 Mystical Tutor
X1 Path to Exile
X1 Return to Dust
X1 Pulse the Fields
X1 Misdirection
X1 Hydroblast
Well it's nice to see some new blood in here :). Welcome to the Land Still thread. About Yahn's list.Originally Posted by Romanus
I pissed and moaned all over this list when I first saw it. I didn't like 0 manipulation, 2 crucibles, ect., ect., ect.
Then Rockout and Konsultant both stated that it plays like a standard deck; and I settled down, and tested it (Part of this was when I was having trouble with my own wish still which happens every now and again) So my own personal opinion is that Yahn's model although cool, is not really viable from a standpoint that it lacks not only deck manipulation but that it's answers are simply too weak to hold up on a consistent basis. Part of the reason UWb Landstill survived so long is that it is very resilient to the meta-game and just general ass-hattery that an opponent may or may not have handy. It's also resilliant to the rules of the game (See Combat phase, taka taka taka Joel made -a- funny.)
Anyways all I can dig up is this so heres what you get:
Konsultant's post following the first view of the list.
About your list. I think you have alot of the right ideas in mind. I see where your thinking and your pretty close to having an idea of what newer land still is like. Go out and test some games, and pay particular attention to your resources particularly your land. Then you will understand exactly why four color doesn't work right now in legacy.
Thanks for the reply Mossivo. After some further testing last night I can see where you are coming from. Our Goblin player mana screwed me bad with some timely waste draws and my girlfriend ( a nasty Zoo player) priced me for lethal twice. Went back to a UWb shell and tore both of them up. We talked about it for a bit and came to the same conclusion you did.
The options red gives me make tougher matches like Merfolk a tad easier, but opens me up to nonbasic hate, making the matches I should win harder. I do not like that trade off, so back to UWb I go! More testing tonight and I will update a list.
Thanks again.
you mine as well play path to exile and Engineered plague with 10-11 maindecked removal spells.
Working on translating the report...
Loam was quite possitive. Game 1 Humility is your best weapon. With 2 Fact or Fiction, 4 Standstill you can keep up with there Loam engine in the early/midgame. They can't deal with Plainswalkers.
Postboard 7 Plows works to keep the big beaters away for good, Crucible nulifies Wasteland and Plainswalkers quicken the clock. That and 4 Relic of Progenitus of course.
Benie
Thanks for the advice! I am considering the 3rd Path in the SB. And playing along with 3 Negate, and maybe 3 Relic. Burn isn't an issue as it used to be since if you resolve Wish->Pulse, you're all good. I've been less fond of BEB and like Negate in its place, but in a Zoo/Goblin/aggro meta, maybe BEB is better. Negate is good against ANT, and that's all I have to worry, and I do like that slot instead of hate-bears. I've played aggro loam for practice without the SB and it was tough. I'm sure 7 StP is more than enough for their 12 (recurring) threats (RGb aggro-loam is the superior version IMO). The main deal is to stop Terravore, and Relic seems hot. I just never practiced that MU with the board.
People should try out Teferi's Response in a LD heavy meta. It's super funny yet devastating. My reasoning for its possible SB in a LD heavy meta is that it not only protects against LD, BUT it also protects attacking Mishra's which are super common targets for creature removals. As far as I've tested. 2 Teferi's Response in the SB for LD heavy meta is really good, but I strongly advice against it unless your meta is 50% LD since it's a win-more card (not too win more if it's >50%LD meta). Surprisingly, it's never a dead card since Mishras are a common bolt/StP target as well. It's awesome to destroy Lavamancer targetting Mishra's for the lulz :P
Anyway, I'm working on a new version of Landstill. I'll post lists here and on N&D. The playstyle is very different, and it can be seen as an evolution of a vindicateless Speedstill.
How do you guys handle the ANT matchup? Even with 3 MMage and 3 Scullers in the board, I have a hard time... (but then again, I'm up to the best ANT players in the world) I dont need advice on how to play against it, that I know, but more on SB card choices, and estimates on this matchup from you. Is there any wishable tech?
(I guess, 10-90 preboard, unless they start gambling. postboard 50-50 at best)
DCI L1 Judge, admin of www.BeNeLegacy.nl and member of Team Nijmegen (T.N.T.=Team Nijmegen Tendrils).
Orim's chant to wish for? I had some success with Ethersworn Canonist, guess that works better against ANT than Sculler. Combined with MMage - almost a hard lock. It also works with Enlightened Tutor, much like Sculler.
I've got 3 canonists in my board as well. Sometimes they're completely dead but MM on wipe away + canonist is good game, most of the time.
Edit: Do you have Runed Halo in your sideboard? Between Halo, MM and some random hate (sculler, canonist) you should be able to drop enough hate to keep them from going off.
Hello friend.
When I was running Vindicate-Still (Konsultant's list with minor variations), I had great success with 3 halo/3 Mage. They did double duty against control and were generally enough alongside the 10 permission and land destruction to fight through tendrils. I've always thought sculler was the weakest choice, honestly.
Why MM on Wipe Away? Most combo decks I see pack kgrip/other bounce post board as well, so it only takes one removal spell to get through that lock.
On the wish-still list, I really want to fit in a second humility/disk. I know Moss already runs both, but he had to bump up to 61 cards and down to 23 lands with no dragons to do it. I think my list is (to avoid posting another decklist) his -1 relic, -1 disk, -1 SDT, +1 FoF, +1 tolaria west. Is it worth cutting draw #9 and blue card#20 to get another big 4cc bomb? Meh, I don't know if I like it.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
I used to run 4 mage 3 halo and never had a problem with combo. That was back before I ran spell snare. Currently I'm running 3x negate out of the board and it has been stellar. Weird how I take out combo hate and I still don't really lose to combo all that often.
Just run 61 cards. All the cool kids are doing it.
Co-Founder of Team Awesome - I heard Randy Buehler say a while back that good players give themselves the most number of turns to find the answer.
The Source on MTGO - Predator8785 and RockOut
I'm using 60. My list is almost a mirror of Moss' actually, but I have relic in the sideboard instead of the main.
Would 61 be better? I can see land screw happening more and drawing the Relic instead of something needed and being just too late.
I like the clock that sculler gives, instead of Runed Halo. All their bounce works on Halo too, anyway.
I like the versitility of Sculler, it is good versus Agroloam, Dreadstill, and even the mirror.
Wishable Chant works only against noob-combo players, which I regretfully do not encounter.
MMage on Wipe Away is a weak choice, unless it is your 4th mage on the table or something. Just name Tendrils with the first, and Ad Nauseam with the second.
@ Rockout: consider yourself a lucky man.
Man, I wish Extract was an instant!
DCI L1 Judge, admin of www.BeNeLegacy.nl and member of Team Nijmegen (T.N.T.=Team Nijmegen Tendrils).
It's true. I am the king of top decks amongst my play circle.
Co-Founder of Team Awesome - I heard Randy Buehler say a while back that good players give themselves the most number of turns to find the answer.
The Source on MTGO - Predator8785 and RockOut
I don't have much luck against ANT with UWb. I win now and then off of a fistful of counters but they win more often off of Duress or Orim's Chant and then going off. The Doomsday FT matchup is pretty dreadful also. I never see TES so I don't know how that matchup goes, it might be a bit better because of Spell Snare on Burning Wish but I doubt it.
Normally against ANT, I would name Tendrils with both G2. Most of the opponents I played only boarded in Chain of Vapor. Double Meddling Mage spells GG then. If you G2 like this, you probably right on boarding G3. Allthough It depends on the life-total too. Meddling Mage puts a tiny clock on the opponent. If he is below 13 lands Orim's Chant would be a better call, because it shuts down IGG-loop most of the time and you can sandbag counters against Ad Nauseam.
But then again, just 50 miles west of Elf_Ascetic's homebase, where I play, the ANT players are quite weak.
Benie
Ofc you're not gonna name wipe away if it's the only thing on the table, but dropping a mage on wipe away while a canonist is out spells gg for your opponent since you can just sit on counters for the odd slaughter pact/chain of vapor.
Then again I rarely play against (good) comboplayers so I might just underestimate cards like duress that can and will screw you up.
Hello friend.
I played a list very close to mossivos but without relic in the main 60.
There was a small tourney that thursday again and I again finished first, this time with 3-0-1.
I won two very close games again Canadian, then had to play against Loam and got the Disk+Elspeth Combo twice with counterbackup for assault. Without Disk I would have been totally wrecked but I´m still not concerned about it.
I´m gonna test it at tomorrows tournament against and give you a short report
about it. B
ut my real "desire" is to find out whether to play disk on sunday(big tourney) or not :/ Im expecting a very random meta so I think disk should be fine :S
What do you think (Moss?)? Any new consolidated findings on that card?
DCI: 68 10 43 34
If you play against a Storm combo player who has a lot of experience with the deck in question, and experience beating control, it becomes very hard to beat them. It's possible, but it's not probable in most cases.
Duress is a huge problem, especially when you don't have Brainstorm in hand to hide things. Even then you run the risk of hiding the counter you will need later in the turn, even on a fairly early turn.
Counterbalance is the control device most likely to dominate Storm combo and even then it needs to be backed up by a real clock to make it fully effective.
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