[Deck] Non-LED Based Dredge/Ichorid Combo

[andrew77]

I don't think you would have room to add 2+ lands and deep analysis. If you just want to add the 4th breakthrough though the only cards I can see you cutting for it are dreturns or therapy.

[Joe_C]

I don't think you would have room to add 2+ lands and deep analysis. If you just want to add the 4th breakthrough though the only cards I can see you cutting for it are dreturns or therapy.

Or pushing 1 Ichorid to the board in favor of trying to blast out the turn 2 breakthrough into win.

<400th POST!!!>

[jimirynk]

The list would go through some changes if I was to fit in DA.
But me being in college even in the summer I don't have the time to test such a change.
The 4 breakthrough would be sweet but I'm going to find room for the lark back in my md for hadley because its not m10 rules yet..


<106th POST!!!>

@Andrew
Go to hadley man I want to see 3 ledless list in top 8 lol.

[Joe_C]

The list would go through some changes if I was to fit in DA.
But me being in college even in the summer I don't have the time to test such a change.
The 4 breakthrough would be sweet but I'm going to find room for the lark back in my md for hadley because its not m10 rules yet..

I tried playing with lark, but didnt want to use up the slot main, and I think leviathan is just better as a board fattie than just about anything

[jimirynk]

I tried playing with lark, but didnt want to use up the slot main, and I think leviathan is just better as a board fattie than just about anything

Lark is main only vs decks that remove your bridges, which I'm expecting a lot of fanatic and curse catcher at haldley.
I ran inkwell in my board, but every game I sided it in I won b4 I got to return it.

[Joe_C]

Lark is main only vs decks that remove your bridges, which I'm expecting a lot of fanatic and curse catcher at haldley.
I ran inkwell in my board, but every game I sided it in I won b4 I got to return it.

Maybe another return target isnt the way to go aside from Ancestor's Chosen in the board......Maybe another ray or something, maybe firestorm #4

[jimirynk]

My board right now is
1 chosen
4 grudge
2 ray
4 Cov
4 chalice/leyline

[Joe_C]

My board right now is
1 chosen
4 grudge
2 ray
4 Cov
4 chalice/leyline

I know its not heavily played in our area, but I dont feel comfortable dropping under 4 ways to nail leyline, I know you run chain, but that can just delay the problem, and we arent fast enough usually to guarantee a bounce/ I win next turn. I would think survival would be played at hadley so my board I plan on running:

3 Wispmare
2 Pithing Needle(faerie macabre, survival, shackles, before i get rod in play etc....)
3 Firestorm
1 Ancestor's Chosen
3 Null Rod
2 Ancient Grudge(this 3/2 split is working good)
1 Ray of Revelation

[andrew77]

I know its not heavily played in our area, but I dont feel comfortable dropping under 4 ways to nail leyline, I know you run chain, but that can just delay the problem, and we arent fast enough usually to guarantee a bounce/ I win next turn. I would think survival would be played at hadley so my board I plan on running:

3 Wispmare
2 Pithing Needle(faerie macabre, survival, shackles, before i get rod in play etc....)
3 Firestorm
1 Ancestor's Chosen
3 Null Rod
2 Ancient Grudge(this 3/2 split is working good)
1 Ray of Revelation

The real advantage of chain is that it is so versatile. If you were to bring in whispermare and ray guessing your opponent is siding in leylines and they aren't you just brought in 4 dead cards. Chain on the other hand can bounce crypts, fanatics and other problem cards at the end of your opponents turn before you go off. I do think you should have some dedicated enchantment removal though. I would say 2 rays/whispermares and 2/3 chain of vapor.

[Joe_C]

The real advantage of chain is that it is so versatile. If you were to bring in whispermare and ray guessing your opponent is siding in leylines and they aren't you just brought in 4 dead cards. Chain on the other hand can bounce crypts, fanatics and other problem cards at the end of your opponents turn before you go off. I do think you should have some dedicated enchantment removal though. I would say 2 rays/whispermares and 2/3 chain of vapor.

honestly I dont think I would expect them to run leyline unless I was facing the mirror match. I cant think of any teir deck that runs them in the board at all anymore. Most of the time i would put maybe 1-2 ray in for the 2nd game and definitely put in rod/grudge. If they drop a turn 1 leyline I try to fight it out and cast ray, for game 3 I bring in all my enchantment hate. Seeing crypt/relic is way more common and I run 3 rod, 2 grudge, 2 needle to handle that.

Against some merfolk lists, they bring in propaganda against us so you need flashbackable spells to weed out their counter and you need answers to relic/crypt also. I board out alot of cards for this matchup

[Joe_C]

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Undiscovered Paradise

With a tournament just around the corner. I am looking at my manabase and wondering: if wasteland is present in the meta, is this manabase going to be good enough? Should I run land #14 in the board or just maindeck it? I hate to take out anything from my maaindeck since it has been pretty consistent. The last few days before a tournament I always question the card quantities of a few things in the deck.

@jimirynk: you run no answer to creatures in your board aside from chain, how are your matchups against merfolk/zoo/goblins without a board cleaner? I may drop a firestorm for an extra land in my board, since I wont mull into a hand with firestorm anyways, although witness may make an appearance in my board for this weekend so I can snag back needles/rods etc....

[sunshine]

Dakmor Salvage has been testing well for me as a fourteenth land that doubles as dredger number thirteen in a pinch. The fact that it gives some additional help against Wasteland is very nice. I also like being able to keep two land hands and have the potential to cast Stinkweeds without using Witness to recur a land. I would not advocate the card in an LED version but it's testing well here.

[jimirynk]

@ joeC
Zoo after board can be hard. I side -3 breakthrough,-1fkz,1 therapy(the 5th spot I'm not 100% about)
+4 grudge,+1 chosen
This MU's all about getting 3 creatures on the field for DR as fast as possible.
This can be diffrent if they run path..
If you can DR chosen it should be game.
LARK MAKES THIS MU SO EASY...(probably going in my board/MD again)

Merfolk game one isn't that hard just don't walk a DR into daze/curecatch/force.
Relic MD can give you a headache..
I side: -3 breakthrough,-1fkz(if I lose game 1 I side in a 1 ray)Idk whats the smartest 5th card to sideout is.
+4 grudge


@firestorm
I mean I only side in x cards in any given matchup, which is generally 5.
This doesn't weaken your opening 7 or your dredges.
If I ran firestorm I would have to side out more relevant cards like tribe or study which are just simply better.


I might cut 1 therapy or tribe for a lark or a breakthrough.

[Joe_C]

Dakmor Salvage has been testing well for me as a fourteenth land that doubles as dredger number thirteen in a pinch. The fact that it gives some additional help against Wasteland is very nice. I also like being able to keep two land hands and have the potential to cast Stinkweeds without using Witness to recur a land. I would not advocate the card in an LED version but it's testing well here.

Usually when I care about having a land in play I need it to produce something besides black, and the fact that salvage comes into play tapped makes it something I dont want to see in my opening hand. I want my lands to do what I want when I need them, seems just a little to slow for my liking, but if it works for you Justin more power to ya

[sunshine]

Usually when I care about having a land in play I need it to produce something besides black, and the fact that salvage comes into play tapped makes it something I dont want to see in my opening hand. I want my lands to do what I want when I need them, seems just a little to slow for my liking, but if it works for you Justin more power to ya

I hear you man, and the CiPT line is very unfortunate. I will say though that there have been games where I would keep a 1 or 2 lander and need to slow dredge around crypt and relic where Salvage really shined (providing the additional mana source needed to get Thugh/Narcomoeba trickery online for example). Getting that second or even third source can be huge if you want to hard cast Thugs, Narcs, and Stinkweeds.

I'm not 100% on the card but it's my 14th land so I'm not as worried about it being my only mana source in a starting hand.

I have been liking the card but take that with a grain of salt since my list is rather slow in general.

[Joe_C]

I just had a strange idea pop into my head. I wont divulge the information until I can truly test it. If I like what I want to change in the deck I will play it this Saturday and hopefully come out a winner and have a good report to back it up.

[Joe_C]

If I had some more time to test the numbers I would consider making the changes I previously brought up, but from limited testing yesterday I do not feel it adds what I wanted to the deck, so I wont be revealing the changes at the tourney tomorrow.

So what Ichorid players will be in Hadley tomorrow?

[jimirynk]

Not going tomorrow due to my list being a little off..
It needs more draw Im putting the 4th breakthrough.
I might test with the each player draws 3 discards 3.
If their is room.

[Joe_C]

Not going tomorrow due to my list being a little off..
It needs more draw Im putting the 4th breakthrough.
I might test with the each player draws 3 discards 3.
If their is room.

thats a shame man..... I guess sunshine and myself will have to take down this tournament.....

[Joe_C]

Well, I took 9th yesterday at Hadley <sorry scrumdogg for not realizing you got paired down and hosing you>

The List:
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Undiscovered Paradise


4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Golgari Grave troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below
2 Breakthrough
4 Cabal therapy
4 Careful Study
4 Narcomoeba
3 Dread Return
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame Kin Zealot


SB:
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Null Rod
1 Ancestor's Chosen
3 Wispmare
3 Firestorm
1 Bogardan Hellkite
2 Ray of Revelation

Here is a breakdown with some specifices and some afterthoughts:

Round 1: Nicholas Playing UGR Trash
G1:I win the die roll/kept opening 7 with tribe x2 and a coliseum, and a stinkweed
I lead with turn 1 tribe which sticks.He plays land, go. I dredge stinky on my draw step, play coliseum and activate it for another 14 card dredge and hit nothing(no moeba, no ichorid, no bridge), He plays nimble mongoose, pass. I dredge and hit a moeba and an ichorid to bring back next turn, he bolts moeba before my main phase(still no bridge). After this my notes get fuzzy, I start recurring Ichorid and finally hit bridge and take it down in a few turns.

G2: He plays land go. My hand is Imp, tribe x2, and 2 dredgers, a land, and a therapy=score. I walk my turn 1 Imp into daze as expected. He plays goose, go. I play another land, tribe-resolves, pitch a troll and play careful study-resolves- I hit 2 moebas off the dredge(hotness), I also got bridge and therapy into the yard and see myself winning shorlty unless he gains an army of men, so I sac a moeba to flashback therapy and get a zombie, naming goyf, which he has in hand. He draws another goyf off a EOT brainstorm, he plays it. I reanimate an Ichorid and I have 2 bridges in my grave at that point,I therapy him(intending on naming force) but it gets dazed. I swing in with my creatures and then dread return an 8/8 Troll which will win me the game the next 2 turns.

1-0-0

Round 2 Roddy with UW Slivers(note:flying creatures are a bitch)
I lost the die roll(mull to 6)
He plays land, aether vial:go. I play turn 1 Imp. He STP's my Imp during his turn(damn youz), I pitch a thug, ichorid, and a troll in resp. I reanimate ichorid, dredge for 6, play tribe:pass. EOT he brings in crystalline sliver, then winged sliver via vial on his turn, and plays standstill, swings for 2 in the air, pass. I start dredging and swinging on the ground, but those damn flying creatures are going to kill me faster than I can kill him since I run out of Ichorid fodder quickly, so I pop standstill by flashbacking therapy naming force, which gets forced, but I get a few tokens.So I try to go for the throat and try to push through a dread return that is hopefully bring back zealot to swing in for 9 total and leave him at 2 life to die to ichorid beats next turn, he drew another force off standstill. so it fails and I die to flying creatures since I am out of gas.

G2:(mull to 6). I keep a hand that is questionable, but dont want to mull to 5. I therapy myself naming troll. He goes turn 1 relic<ouch>. I dont draw any of my hate hosers and lose to flying slivers quickly.

1-1-0

Round 3: Jesse playing UG Merfolk
G1: Won die roll, kept opening 7.
I keep a good hand with some lands and tribes and dredgers. He lands a goyf, then another before I can get really going, but tribe holds 1 off.. But I get my land drops and actually hardcast Ichorid from my hand and start gaining zombie tokens and overwhelm him quickly after that.

G2: He gets turn 1 vial. I play careful study on my first turn and get things moving. He starts vialing in merfolk. I get beat for a few turns then play firestorm with x=4 tagetting his lord of atlantis, 2 adepts, and my moeba which puts me way ahead with 3 zombies on board and his side empty. He wastes my one land, then plays propaganda, and then drops another wasteland, then vials in a lord, I will die before I hit my 2nd land so I scoop.

G3: He hits the nuts, with force,wasteland, relic, me not getting to 2 lands to cast the null rod in my hand and I get pounded by blue men.

1-2-0

Round 4 Pete playing Tombstone(?)
lost roll, kept opening 7.
He plays land go. I play turn tribe. He plays land. Snuff Outs my tribe which I toss an ichorid, a thug, and a troll to in response. My turn I dredge some hotness and he will be dead in a turn or 2 so he scoops.

G2: He plays Leyline of the void, I have wispmare in my hand and ray or revelation. My turn I evoke mare and pass. He plays sinkhole on my land. I play another land, play putrid imp, pass. He plays pernicious dead. My upkeep I pitch ray and flashback it to nail deed. He lands a goyf and 2 hippies over the next few turns. I get an 11/11 troll in play and a ton of zombies and squeak it out with me at 1 life since he topdecks a land instead of a hate card.

2-2-0

Round 5: Alan (srumdogg) playing Imperial Painter
G1:I lose the roll. Kept opening 7
He plays turn 1 magus of the moon, ok, yeah that hurts. Then drops combo pcs on turn 3 which will rock my turn 4 so I scoop.

G2: Notes are fuzzy, but I know I land rod to keep his artifact foolishness at bay and his life does from 20 to 11 then to 1(I did something right apparently)

G3: He lands turn 1 3sphere but I have 2 lands and I draw a third so I play Imp on turn 4. He lands blood moon. I start dredging and playing ichorids from the grave. He lands blood moon, I firestorm his creatures( i fail to remember painter has toughness 3 and firestormed for x=2) so he lives but I outnumber him and end up winning.

So I finish in 9th place

As always it was a fun tournament, and I wish Kevin the best of luck in the future.

For future reference: Ancestor's chosen will probably be the only other return target I will keep in my board. I may want to increase my maindeck land count and run the 4th rod in my board. Other than that, I felt good about how the deck played.

edit: I did not win ONCE by reanimating zealot for the kill. Makes me think a slow rolling build like sunshine is working on may be quite effective. I won via Ichorid/zombie/troll beats all day.