[Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm

[Jim Higginbottom]

Has anyone who isn't main decking 4 ponders tried Ponder in the sideboard? I cut my 4th pyroblast for a Ponder and it won me 2 games in testing when I was kind of stuck otherwise.

[emidln]

Has anyone who isn't main decking 4 ponders tried Ponder in the sideboard? I cut my 4th pyroblast for a Ponder and it won me 2 games in testing when I was kind of stuck otherwise.

I don't imagine you considered that you might not have been kind of stuck if you had just maindecked four Ponder to begin with.

[BreathWeapon]

You're better off running Night Whispers or a Draw 4, if the slot is even justifiable.

[Valtrix]

So, I've been fishing this a little bit lately, and have a couple questions (from the list in the opening post):

1) When you have both a ponder and a brainstorm, which order is generally preferable? I would think that ponder and then brainstorm would make the most sense, because shuffling and then brainstorming lets you see the most number of cards, while you can really only shuffle away one card from brainstorm with a ponder.

2) Is diminishing returns from the board mostly a final-resort card? As in no other options will give you the chance to win? Drawing 7 is powerful, but also somewhat risky because it's unclear what you're going to get.

3) How does one go boarding out cards to bring in pyroblast?

4) How does TES compare with other types of storm-combo decks? (FT, ANT, etc.)

Thanks. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with combo, so I'm trying to learn up about it more.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

So, I've been fishing this a little bit lately, and have a couple questions (from the list in the opening post):

1) When you have both a ponder and a brainstorm, which order is generally preferable? I would think that ponder and then brainstorm would make the most sense, because shuffling and then brainstorming lets you see the most number of cards, while you can really only shuffle away one card from brainstorm with a ponder.

2) Is diminishing returns from the board mostly a final-resort card? As in no other options will give you the chance to win? Drawing 7 is powerful, but also somewhat risky because it's unclear what you're going to get.

3) How does one go boarding out cards to bring in pyroblast?

4) How does TES compare with other types of storm-combo decks? (FT, ANT, etc.)

Thanks. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with combo, so I'm trying to learn up about it more.

Ive played the deck for quite a while so hopefully I can give some insight here.

First with Brainstorm and Ponder. Generally it depends on the hand and whether or not you want to shuffle away something that you have in your hand. Personally i am about 50/50 on the order because while you see more cards with ponder->brainstorm, brainstorm->ponder lets you get rid of stuff if you have crap on top.

Second, with D. Returns, yeah its a last resort type deal or if you cant AdN and they have a crypt out then its solid. generally against blue its a really unsafe bet and personally I have never used it against a blue deck its really more of a safety net for me.

third, boarding all depends on the matchup, against CB i drop chants, a land and a brainstorm. against non-CB blue decks i drop brainstorm and chain of vapor.

Fourth, im completely biased as I feel that FT is outdated and ANT is a terrible deck that is getting way more recognition than it should because people cant pilot TES well and blame it on the deck.

Hope that helped.

[Valtrix]

Yep, helped quite a bit, thanks.

[BreathWeapon]

ANT relied too heavily on Mystical Tutor + LED, now it's clearly inferior to both DDFT and TES.

Boarding out for Pyroblast, on the draw it's Orim's Chants (2 if you play 4) and Ponders or a land.

[GreenOne]

Boarding out for Pyroblast, on the draw it's Orim's Chants (2 if you play 4) and Ponders or a land.

Do we agree on that? I usually side out a Chrome Mox, a Brainstorm, and a Chant/Infernal/brainstorm for 3 blasts.

[BreathWeapon]

Do we agree on that? I usually side out a Chrome Mox, a Brainstorm, and a Chant/Infernal/brainstorm for 3 blasts.

It's debatable, Orim's Chants and Cantrips are at their worst on the draw, but I'd never, ever cut Chrome Mox on the draw, because that's when Chrome Mox is at it's best.

I don't think you should cut Infernal Tutor, we're threat light these days.

[GreenOne]

It's debatable, Orim's Chants and Cantrips are at their worst on the draw, but I'd never, ever cut Chrome Mox on the draw, because that's when Chrome Mox is at it's best.

I don't think you should cut Infernal Tutor, we're threat light these days.

You might be right with IT. I used to do that when I played 4 MD ITs, so actually siding out one opened the wish for IT play. I don't feel light on threats, though. The deck usually wants a couple tutors against control, 3+ clog your hand. I'm still running 4 Wishes, 2 ITs, 3 Mysticals and 2 AN, 11 should be enough with 6 cantrips. Or maybe I should side out a Mystical instead, but it increases its power on G2 & G3.

Chrome mox is actually the card I want to see the least against control, where the card advantage matters. Postside I already got a bit clunkier deck, with some more chaff (blasts) that impedes my combo, but is needed to win. I probably still have to mull hands with 3 protection spells though, so I want to reduce the mulls for 2+ Moxes hands.

About the cantrips. Brainstorm's instant speed is great against CB, cause you don't have to decide if you want to Ponder on your first turn or leave R open for Blast in case he drops CB. But matches against control might take a bit of time, and the deck have too little shuffle effects: if you end up not finding what you need in the first three cards, then you might be stuck with draw/go for a couple turns, while your opponent develops.
Is it better to side out some number of ponders or brainstorms?

[Volrath]

How many of you have tested Solemn Offering?, the fact that it gains me 4 life and has an CMC of 3 makes it pretty good.

I have one in my SB instead of Vindicate/Pulse, and it does wonders for me, also it has one W in it casting cost, wich is yust gravy.

[BreathWeapon]

On the draw, Ponder, on the play Brainstorm, because on the draw Ponder is preventing you from Pyroblasting Counterbalance while Brainstorm allows you to either Pyroblast or Prainstorm on your opponent's turn.

For TES, it's never a question of "X card in, Y card out" because the soft counters and the coin flip are both serious considerations for SBing. Vs Spellsnare on the draw, it's 4 MD Empty the Warrens; vs Stifle on the play, it's3 MD Empty the Warrens and 1 SB Empty the Warrens; vs Stifle on the draw, it's 0 Empty the Warrens; vs Counterbalance + Sweepers on the draw, it's Pyroblast for Ponders and 4 MD Duress for an Orim's Chant (if you're not MDing 4 Duress and 3 Orim's Chant, which is superior to 4 Orim's Chant and 3 Duress IMO) vs Counterbalance on the play, it's 3 MD Empty the Warrens etc. etc. etc.

You have to modulate the ETW and Pyroblast SBing based on externalities and not charts.

[rockout]

How many of you have tested Solemn Offering?, the fact that it gains me 4 life and has an CMC of 3 makes it pretty good.

I have one in my SB instead of Vindicate/Pulse, and it does wonders for me, also it has one W in it casting cost, wich is yust gravy.

Why would you ever worry about having the mana to cast something? This deck runs 5c lands for a reason.

[GreenOne]

Why would you ever worry about having the mana to cast something? This deck runs 5c lands for a reason.

It happens once every ice age, that you can't cast Maelstrom pulse cause you have Volcanic Island, Mox (black card), Mox (chant). It happened to me once, when T-Rex was the king of earth, and Nostradamus wrote something about it happening again when Berlusconi, at the age of 147 years, will become supreme king of the United States of Italy and Lybia.

[Piceli89]

It happens once every ice age, that you can't cast Maelstrom pulse cause you have Volcanic Island, Mox (black card), Mox (chant). It happened to me once, when T-Rex was the king of earth, and Nostradamus wrote something about it happening again when Berlusconi, at the age of 147 years, will become supreme king of the United States of Italy and Lybia.

Fuck you sir, don't ever tell the truth about the future of Mankind to these Americans, they didn't know it yet!

[rockout]

It happens once every ice age, that you can't cast Maelstrom pulse cause you have Volcanic Island, Mox (black card), Mox (chant). It happened to me once, when T-Rex was the king of earth, and Nostradamus wrote something about it happening again when Berlusconi, at the age of 147 years, will become supreme king of the United States of Italy and Lybia.

lol.

[SuperBean]

Instants:
4x Brainstorm
4x Dark Ritual
3x Mystical Tutor
2x Ad Nauseam
2x Orim's Chant
1x Wipe Away

Sorceries:
4x Burning Wish
4x Rite of Flame
4x Duress
4x Ponder
3x Infernal Tutor

Artifacts:
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
2x Chrome Mox
1x Mox Diamond

Lands:
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
1x Scrubland

Sideboard:
4x Vexing Shusher
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Shattering Spree
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Thoughtseize
1x Echoing Truth

This is my latest revision of my list, I know I posted a very similar list a few pages back but I've added some things that I feel should be mentioned. The 4th Vexing Shusher, 2nd Orim's Chant, and Mox Diamond.

The Mox Diamond is my favorite addition, it's excellent post Nauseam when your in need of a beginning mana source. Especially when you draw into several lands, or an extra fetch land. It has also allowed me to play the second Orim's Chant which I really like having again. I would certainly not recommend it if your not playing 13-14 lands.

The fourth Vexing Shusher I also felt was necessary to me because he has been such a Champ against Counterbalance and Threshold decks and he can act as early Blue Elemental/Hydro Blast bait.

[Piceli89]

Mhm SuperBean, it seems yu have taken the manabase structure of an ANT and have transformed it into 4c. Whcih isn't a bad idea by itself, but i feel iit'd give you far more problems that the normal 5c lands ( you' re totally fetchlands-dependant and therefore stifle would hurt you a lot, and, moreover, you're making wasteland far too relevant, since a wasteland on,say, the only scrubland wouldn't allow you to cast chant anymore).
The 2 moxes seems really random, i think you'd play at least 3. Even if never tested, i also find the Mox Diamond to be pretty much non-suited to be used in this deck. After AN, ofc it's a blast; but before, it's arguably even worse than Chrome, since you aren't going to have 2,3-landers always with 14 lands.
Maybe it's just me, but i think you should at least add a set of rainbow lands, arguably Gemstones, since fetchlands are giving you already a bit of damage and the Cities would give you too much of it.

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Guys, have someone of you tried or taken into account a single Pyroblast maindeck? This deck really screams for a possibility to destroy Counterbalance, i think this is pretty much clear. Chain of Vapor,although being useful with the moxes trick, can't accomplish this task , since it comes into the fucking bastard's curve.
Pyroblast, even if it costs 1 too, can counter proactively that threat and save our ass. I noticed that, in the first phases of the game, we often stay mana open for EOT brainstorms or Mystical. This would allow to Pyroblast Counterbalance, which is something definitely unexpected by on opponent knowing he's facing combo.
I know that this reasoning is , for a good part, built in air because it would be a singleton,but Pyroblast Maindeck to me would add way more advantages that CoV, since it can:
-counter CB;
-in case it lands, destroy it, and not bounce it, which is definitely better;
-protect a Chant before going off, which is golden because Chant resolved really shuts up lots of tempo decks, leaving them with the other counters (stifle/spell snare) in hand;
- even if it happens on rare occasions, a Pyroblast on an enemy Brainstorm is a good move because we deny the possibility to fina answers/counters.
-randomly toss it on a non-blue spell to increase the storm count; this is good when you're going off emptying your hand in order to have your I.Tutor hellbented, and in this occasion it sometimes happened to me that CoV was a burden because i couldn't find/produce the U mana to get it off of my hand, and maybe i had to wait a turn tossing it on an oppo's permanent.

I think it could be a good inclusion; after all,it would be 1 more weapon against blue decks. Cov sucked hard in bouncing what really hurt us, i.e. Chalice and Counterbalance; Pyroblast, at least,can kill one of these 2. The only thing we'd miss of CoV is the possibility to get rid of a Teeg; but, since no one plays Teeg maindeck, Cov could be boarded in game2 (yes, it would be making a swap between the 4thpyroblast sb and the CoV maindeck).
This card already functioned well maindeck in Doomsday lists, and, to me,getting rid of Counterbalance is actually way more important than the possibility to do storm tricks or to bounce a random Tarmogoyf or whatever else. Against nonblue decks, as already said, Cov/echoing truth/Hurkyl's Recall would obviously come in and replace it.

[BreathWeapon]

MD Pyroblast is just worse than MD Duress, try MDing 4 Duress and SBing 1 Thought Seize before you MD situational disruption/removal.

[Bryant Cook]

Actually, I kind of like the idea. I'll have to test it out though.