If you have something you want in your pile but not in your hand, you can usually use Brainstorm from hand, crack LED in response to Doomsday (so you can search the stuff up with Doomsday), or stack Brainstorm to draw into Brainstorm with SDT/Ponder. Alternately with Meditate, you can just cast it. 6 mana isn't really all that much mana...
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Well, I didn't mean in a LED situation. Just the best piles to make storm. Then again, I guess most regular piles would be sufficient in that situation, upon trying it a couple of times.
Even without LED, Brainstorm's transformative power is amazing. Without LED, 1-2 cards in hand and an SDT or Brainstorm can set up some pretty outstanding Doomsday scenarios, even if you don't want to play LED. With just one card to put back, you get a mass draw spell or tutor + something like LED if you want it.Originally Posted by JeroenC
This is the type of thing that I haven't written much on because it seems to be really situational. These one-shot piles aren't as formulaic and tend to take a bit more thought, but you can really expose the power of mass tutoring power of Doomsday. Would more stuff like the Crafting Doomsday Piles page help to recognize these situations?
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I'd play a Tendrils somewhere. And a Doomsday. And I don't see the reason to play both Grapeshot and Pyroclasm. If you plan on using Pyroclasm only against ETW (since we're faster than tribal decks, and merfolk plays 8 lords anyway) then you can play Maelstrom pulse, it's a solution more to CB.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
It's worth noting that the pass the turn Doomsday pile of:
Meditate
LED
LED
Burning Wish
Burning Wish
still produces 18 lifeloss (8 storm + Tendrils) for 3UR (although you can't cheat the Meditate with LED, you could cheat the 1R with LED) if you have 1 Tendrils and 1 IGG in your sideboard.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Since you posted your post-M10-list, I was testing with Silence and was quite satisfied. I missed Duress a bit though. Maybe we could split Silence and Duress.
The questions that came to my mind testing your list, Emidln:
- Isn't 17 Lands a bit much? It went fine with 16 Lands as well
- Is the 2nd Basic Island really necessary? Is Wipe away that important :P?
- Do you really feel comfortable with not even a single IT main?
So far
Fred
How has Rain of Filth been working out for you guys? Also I wonder if in my meta, which consists of like 50% aggro, 25% staxx 25% control, I should run straight dday or the hybrid version, which was pure awesomeness last time.
The point is, how consistently do you beat Burn, Goblins and Zoo/Goyfsligh with straight dday?
I've been playing with an inspired build of FT lately. It's a straight-Doomsday build with Force of Will designed as something of a glass canon. It's really, really, really good at beating aggro and reasonably good at beating decks like Dragon Stompy and Stax. It's matchup against blue is so-so (I can win them against good players, although whether or not I can do so consistently preboard because of my experience or because I'm getting lucky is something up for debate) and I bring in 4 Xantid Swarm postboard. The deck probably wants to replace Street Wraith, but if you do, you end up losing the ability to reliably deal with Chalice @ 1.
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Street Wraith
2 Meditate
4 Force of Will
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
3 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Doomsday
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
The sideboard would have stuff like:
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Krosan Grip
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Infernal Tutor
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Brain Freeze
1 Wipe Away
The build gives you a lot of options and you can really exploit some strange lines of play. There is no bounce maindeck because I didn't want to fit it in. If they resolve something bad, you just play around it or go to game 2. I don't know that I'd play this in a general metagame, although I would claim that a good player can do well with just about any build of Tendrils in most metagames on general skill. It's probably worth noting that with Street Wraith you are dangerously low on blue cards. Outside of blue cards (all of which are pitchable, which is why you have two Meditate), you have 8 ways to draw into the Doomsday pile.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I've a friend Brian who came up with a nice Iggy version running 4 FOW and 4 Pact of Negations. I was wondering if you can fit in PoNs as 2 copies to up the FOW effects to 6. That way, you have 6 well protected ways of going off. I'm not sure if Street Wraith is the right way but it can draw you your Doomsday pile instead of relying on SDT so maybe it's good. I still believe in 3-4 Duress MD. I'm not too much of a combo player, but I always liked the comfort of knowing your opponent's hand before going off.
I have been loving this list:
4x LED
4x Orim's Chant
4x Dark Ritual
4x Brainstorm
4x Top
4x Mystical Tutor
3x Lotus Petal
3x Silence
3x Infernal Tutor
3x Doomsday
2x Ponder
2x Cabal Ritual
1x Tendrils
1x KGrip
1x Meditate
1x IGG
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bayou
1x Tundra
1x Scrubland
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Island
1x Swamp
Sideboard
3x Xantid Swarm
2x KGrip
2x Cabal Ritual
1x Helm of Awakening
1x Grapeshot
1x Ray of Revelation
1x Infernal Tutor
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Lotus Petal
2x meta slots most likely it will be 1x Disenchant and 1x Naturalize since peope in my meta LOVE Null Rod and Pyrostatic Pillar.
It plays a lot like older FT lists and Silence just makes the IGG loop that much better against blue! It is a little weaker against CB but thats what Grip is for. I really like Silence, it has been very hot so far!
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
I don't play the control matchup a lot, but I've been testing Rain of Filth, and while it's come in handy on occasion, it's fairly all-in when you play it, and if you do sac lands and don't win, it's a serious problem. I think I would rather use Cabal Rit in it's place. I'm not saying it's not useable, it's just too risky for me to appreciate.
I like the Chant/Silence lists, but I can't say I like not having Duress. However, if you don't see CB, this is clearly the list to play. It seems very, very optimal and I like the lack of red. I've been testing Burning Wish, and it just seems to get in the way. The problem is that we don't run Red acceleration like TES, which has really put a damper on my flexibility with it. Plus, it's always popping up at the most inopportune times, but that's just bad luck IMO. I may try it as a singleton, because it's flexibility makes me feel like I haven't lost when my Tendrils gets milled or whatever the scenario is. Stupid Raven Guild Master. A guy I know has a hell of a wizard list, I lose when his Vial gets to 3. It's a serious problem, and I feel like a noob losing to Milling Wizards.
Pce,
--DC
Schadenfreude is the most genuine kind of joy, since it doesn't include even a drop of envy.Why can't we just admit it?
Nice thing about B. Wish is it's an additional out against Chalice@1; especially for builds without Duress.
Ok so I'm just starting to play this deck, but how exactly do we expect to beat Counterbalance? My games in testing have basically all gone the same way: opponent plays CB, I Mystical for Grip/Wipe Away in response or just naturally draw it, and then can't assemble enough mana/protection to win before I either get killed or a 2nd CB hits play. I'm just playing a straight Doomsday list with Duress and Chant (for IGG), but games like this make me really miss Ad Naus for the ability to just win off of one card out of nowhere.
AN still forces you to go off pretty early, due to your life total. In case he doesn't have any threats for you lifepoints you can of course roll it a little slower. But in general your opponent will have a beater/Goyf pretty fast and your AN will become useless.
CB + threats is not the combination any stormbased combodeck would like to see, so your struggles are absolutely normal. Of course it is harder to set up under the CB-Lock but still it is not impossible, especially when you look at the number of lands you run. The good thing about Doomsday is that you don't need like at least 2-3 Rituals to make things happen.
Besides, you won't be able to cast an Ad Nauseam "out of nowhere" because your opponent will be able to counter your Rituals easily.
By the way:
Props for Pulp_Fiction and his awesome list. I've been testing a pretty similar one lately and it worked out really good.
The only problem I had pretty often was that I wasn't able to cast multiple Chants in one turn, due to the lack of white mana.
Have you had the same concern?
@VsTheWorld: Totally normal problems, everyone has problems with these matchups. Landstill is fairly easy since you have ample time to setup, but be aware of Stifle, since a lot of lists (at least in my meta) run them. CB is the worst card the deck can see. Your best bet is turn 1 Top for solid setup or an opening hand with KGrip and/or Mystical Tutor. Just keep practicing with combo and the most important thing is to know when you have to go for a win and when to hold back and what hands are best against what decks. This may sound easy, but against a deck like Burn a hand of: Top, Mystical, Mystical, land, land, Chant, Ponder can be deceptively bad. G2 I would keep this since they most likely brought in Pyrostatic Pillar but G1 this can be to slow if you don't hit a Ritual or LED with Ponder.
@FredMaster: Thanks man! What are the changes in your list? Yeah, I have had that problem, another Tundra or Scrubland in the main and cutting it down to just 8x fetches should help; Tundra is probably better. Maybe bumping it up to 17 lands? Not sure, I played 17 land versions before and, similar to what you posted earlier, it always just felt like a few to many. Maindeck space is so tight already and I tried hard to get that 4th Petal in. I have been considering going down to 2x Doomsday in the main since there have been numerous times where I activate Top and see 2x of them or have 1x in my opening hand and draw more. Need to test it out but maybe 2x Doomsday would be the correct number and then perhaps putting in that 4th Petal for speed and mana fixing problems.
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
For pulpfiction: You only run 2 white sources though for 7 chants and all are nonbasics. Wouldnt that make your chants dead cards if a control deck wastelands T1?
YES!!!!!!, sorry i have been drinkingm, its been fine, fucke, drunk = WIN!!!!! thsis post is relevent, now i9ts time to spend money in ebay!!!!
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
He meant to say that he also got petals as white sources.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
i'd feel better running 1 basic plains if i were to dedicate so many slots to white
I'd always feel more comfortable with a basic plains. Against Staxx you really need your plains to cast Serenity, or Wasteland might screw you.
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