[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

[Koby]

You played against me round 3. Even with Diverts they can't stop Price of Progress.

I'm surprised that TA doesn't switch to the Threshold shell of 1 island 2 swamp 1 forest. Having all the nonbasics is such a liability to random land hate. Even Merfolk can cripple TA with Back to Basics or repeated applications of Wasteland.

[kikkofrio]

I made 4-2 at italian legacy national yesterday.
I lost first and last turn vs merfolk. I think that deed is not enough in this MU.

I played this SB

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 3 [OD] Divert
SB: 2 [6E] Perish
SB: 2 [TE] Chill

1: merfolk 0-2
2: Survival 2-0
3: Goblin rw 2-0
4: Burn 2-0
5: Enchantress 2-0
6: Merfolk 1-2

I'm considering put Propaganda in Chill slot, and cutting a krosan for 4th divert.

[keys]

How the hell do you 2-0 burn? Please tell me your secret!

You played against me round 3. Even with Diverts they can't stop Price of Progress.

I'm surprised that TA doesn't switch to the Threshold shell of 1 island 2 swamp 1 forest. Having all the nonbasics is such a liability to random land hate. Even Merfolk can cripple TA with Back to Basics or repeated applications of Wasteland.

The problem with this is that it's very common to keep 1-land + Ponder, or 1-land + 1 Wasteland hands, and in those scenarios basics will ruin your day. They slow you down a lot. But it might be worth it in those few matchups, so it should be tested in the SB.

[Koby]

I've been testing a version of TA with less dependence on mana denial and more on hand disruption. ie. Sinkhole -> Hymn to Tourach. When backed up with Thoughtseize, it can do a lot more damage than just disrupting the land base. I definitly see the benefit for Sinkhole, but disagree that it is a better strategy when you consider that Legacy is all about 1 and 2 drops.

The basics haven't hurt me in testing. I run 1 Island 2 Swamp, no forests. The Forest would support exactly 6 cards: Goyfs and Maelstrom Pulse, and I can sandbag a green dual or fetchland in case I need access to it. I also added 2 Vendilion Cliques and they have been nothing but positive, along with further raping my opponent's hand.

The way I see this deck is a darker Tempo Thresh, and play it accordingly.

[stu55]

So, went 2-2 at the legacy events at nats. I started off 2-0, beating 2 Red Burn Decks. Chill is just a massive beating.

I lost to dragon stompy, who ended game 1 ten seconds with a Magus of the Moon on turn 1. I really want a swamp in this main deck so I can snuff out that thing.

Also lost to a C-top list with Nimble when in game 3 he StP all 4 of my tombstalkers and had Meddling Mage on Goyf. I was topdecking to one of my 2 deeds and never saw them. Just an awkward match.

I really think I want more threats in this deck, but it just seems so tight. Terravore might be heading back into the deck, and I might be cutting down on the graveyard hate in the SB to make up for it too.

[keys]

You never saw a Snuff Out for that Mage either? Dang. I've never felt the deck is creature light, but I can definitely see the argument for a 9th threat such as Clique.

With all the trouble I've had with Burn and Sligh, I'm thinking this sideboard is the way to go:

4 Divert
2 Krosan Grip
2 Perish (If only Infest was -3/-3 I would probably play that)
4 Chill
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Engineered Explosives

I would like to fit a Swamp somewhere, too, just to Snuff Out Magus. Maybe maindeck instead of a Sea? A forest for Grip/Goyf would be helpful as well but not as necessary. Island doesn't seem useful to me without BEB, and BEB just isn't cutting it anymore...

[kikkofrio]

You never saw a Snuff Out for that Mage either? Dang. I've never felt the deck is creature light, but I can definitely see the argument for a 9th threat such as Clique.

With all the trouble I've had with Burn and Sligh, I'm thinking this sideboard is the way to go:

4 Divert
2 Krosan Grip
2 Perish (If only Infest was -3/-3 I would probably play that)
4 Chill
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Engineered Explosives

I would like to fit a Swamp somewhere, too, just to Snuff Out Magus. Maybe maindeck instead of a Sea? A forest for Grip/Goyf would be helpful as well but not as necessary. Island doesn't seem useful to me without BEB, and BEB just isn't cutting it anymore...

good choice.
I will try this:

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 4 [OD] Divert
SB: 2 [6E] Perish
SB: 2 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives

[stu55]

My Threads/Edict package plus snuff out is usually more than enough against Zoo.

Against burn, with 2 Chill, I think it is enough because only one needs to stick really. I would Mulligan sort of aggressive to get it.

[keys]

It's your worst matchup. 2 copies aren't really enough to find consistently, and won't be good unless you have other answers to rely on.

I wouldn't hesitate to reserve a full 8 SB cards for Burn: 4 Divert, 4 Chill.

Divert is also fantastic versus Eva, good versus TES, and Chill is decent in the same matchups as REB.

I still don't understand the point of Edict. I just think Perish is better 9/10 times. I like the Threads though they occupy spots in the SB at cmc=3 whereas Perish hits the stuff your Snuff Outs can't (shrouded/protection stuff and swarms), and Deed is more versatile.

[Esper3k]

The thing that Edicts hit, which Deed/Perish/Threads all don't answer is opposing Tombstalkers.

[keys]

The thing that Edicts hit, which Deed/Perish/Threads all don't answer is opposing Tombstalkers.

Fair enough. But the mirror isn't very common, and it's still not guaranteed to hit if you're playing Eva. You could always split Pulses with Snuff Out maindeck if you anticipate a lot of black. Just doesn't seem like the best use of a SB spot to me.

[stu55]

I am thinking of something like this:

3 Crypt
3 Edict
3 Threads
3 Thoughtseize
3 Threads


Get a hold of me on AIM if you want to discuss (stoopskoo15 is my name, it is on all day usually)

[keys]

You love those threads.

[stu55]

Threads is unreal, take their goyf or something and they cant do anything bout it

[Esper3k]

Fair enough. But the mirror isn't very common, and it's still not guaranteed to hit if you're playing Eva. You could always split Pulses with Snuff Out maindeck if you anticipate a lot of black. Just doesn't seem like the best use of a SB spot to me.

Don't get me wrong - I don't like Edict myself, but I believe that's the reason why people use it is all :)

[stu55]

Also good against Progenitus

[keys]

I am thinking of something like this:

3 Crypt
3 Edict
3 Threads
3 Thoughtseize
3 Threads


Get a hold of me on AIM if you want to discuss (stoopskoo15 is my name, it is on all day usually)

[stu55]

Ok, make 3 of those Chills, hah

[Thoughtseizer]

Do you really think that 3-4 chills is really worth the precious side board space when you already play the far superior REB/ HB?

Also REB with divert is already solid against burn which is a tier 2 deck to begin with in this format any ways. Moreover, goblins have really been dying out lately and divert is not solid tech against Gobs or dragon stompy. Furthermore, REB is much better against dragon stompy which is the top mono red deck right now in legacy.

[lolosoon]

Ok, so know that we've got the Enemy Fetchlands out of Zendikar, what will be their impact on TeamAmerica ?!

First, I can see the B/G one played in TA's Manabase instead of those Flooded Strands which couldn't fetch for the lone bayou of the deck.

Then, more Fetches = more power for the Stifle playset we're packing.

But Thresh, our usual prey, can know Fetch a lone forest beside their classic basic island(s), making Wasteland less important in mana denial strategies like TA//TempoThresh.

The thing is, beside EvaGreen or some Pox//Rockish deck, we are the one competitive Legacy deck that can easily get rid of them with Sinkhole (that is even truer for the forest 'cause they can't Daze it back to hand).
(i dismiss Goblins' Rishadan Port on purpose)

So, will mana-denial strategies be viable and competitive in the near future ? Will CanadianThresh be more impacted than TA with this change ?

And if it would, can TA takes the place of the former Tier1 Tempo build of Threshold ? Or are Zoo decks too present now for TA to make any comeback ?!