We're talking about the maindeck bounce slot, not sideboard options. Just saying.Originally Posted by rukcus
did you guys still not buy into the spell snare?
best tech vs all hate.
counterbalance, canonist, teeg, meddling mage..
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I use Echoing Truth.
Pce,
--DC
Schadenfreude is the most genuine kind of joy, since it doesn't include even a drop of envy.Why can't we just admit it?
Snare yust Counters them, REB/Pyroblast can also destroy them and counter fows if need be.
So do i, if i use them.
I often replace the MD bounce with an extra Duress or Rain of Filth.
If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it.” —Volrath
Founding father of Team Moosebite, the team that really bites.
Rain of Filth hasn't panned out well for me. Often, if it would work for me, so would a Cabal Ritual. More than that, it's an extremely all-in kind of card. You have to sac 2 lands for it to be any kind of acceleration, 3 lands to make it like a Dark Ritual, and I never feel safe if I haven't chanted first, and more than that, it's pretty crappy against anything that runs Waste/Stifle, as they do pretty well at shutting down fetches in the first place, and keep you hard-up for mana sources.
I would rather have the bounce than the extra discard as I feel that I can't always be sure that I can rid their hand of everything I need to with just Duresses. When something relevant gets by, I like to know I have the chance of at least topdecking an answer as opposed to having to wish into it (Spell Snare, BEB, Daze, Chant, FoW, CB etc. can really screw you over trying to wish for your CB answer).
Pce,
--DC
Schadenfreude is the most genuine kind of joy, since it doesn't include even a drop of envy.Why can't we just admit it?
Why wouldn't you just run Thought Seize in it's place?
Thoughtseize sucks as a wish target when you're relying on your life total to win the game? You waste a turn wishing, they attack you, then you make yourself lose more life. After all of this try to Ad Nauseam against Threshold/Landstill? Good Luck.
If you need disruption, what other choice do you have? You either take 2 damage from Thought Seize, or you take multiple turns of damage as you cantrip/top deck for Duress. Duress is definitely worth it in the MD, IMO, so if the life loss is an issue, maybe you run Cabal Therapy or one of the 2cc Duress clones?
Well right now its an extra artifact hate card, recently Trinisphere decks are becoming popular in my metagame. I'm up to 3 Spree, 1 Hurkly's, 1 Grip, 1 Truth against them.
I've decided against Repeal because of the lack of Counterbalance. It's been dying out while Gaddeck Teeg is in Zoo sideboards which are on the rise.
Last edited by Bryant Cook; 08-05-2009 at 04:53 PM.
I'm actually playing a Repeal now in my maindeck for my meta and sideboarding the Wipe Away. Like Bryant said the Counterbalance decks are dying out and I don't see too many of them. I was already paying three mana for a bounce spell and not benefiting from the split second so I'm drawing a card instead and most of the time it just allows me to up my storm count once more by replacing itself.
Who cares if she was dead, we did her anyway...
Repeal is quite a mediocre solution, you want to be pretty brutal and you run a bounce spell that usually requires 3 mana to get rid of what this deck really suffers, which is a 2 drop (a hate bear or counterbalance). Which means you'd have to ramp up to three lands. You'll be dead 3 times before you achieve that. Seriously, i think that the bounce options are pretty much set in stone and run around Echoing Truth or Chain of Vapor. Even Wipe Away, although being that good, doesn't belong to this deck. I'd even dare to say that anything costing 3 or more shouldn't be taken into account, simply because it wouldn't match the way this deck works. TES ain't something like Doomsday with a stable manabase and an increasing curve of the deck's strength as the turns pass, it behaves in the opposite way. Waiting for 3 mana- for an actually counterable spell- is like opening the door of a limousine to your opponent and tell him, "Counterbalance is allowed in here, you have all the time in the world. Oh, you might also want to deal me a shitload of damage with your Zoo while i patiently assemble 3 mana to bounce your Teeg".
At least, i see it that way. Not bouncing Chalice @1 is a further weakness.
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Being an ANT player i feel the same than you, repeal is too mana hungry for a unstable mana base, in some cases we'll need to sac a petal or drop a ritual to cast it, although we are drawing a card it simply don't make the cut. I'm at the moment main decking chain of vapor and echoing truth. Chain of Vapor is the nuts at bouncing hatebears and getting storm while echoing truth is what we need to bounce tokens in mirror/ichorid or chalice@1 and cb with top (at least is better than cov)
Also, Repeal can't bounce Gaddock Teeg.
Have you guys not read the last page or so? You're just reiterating all that has been said.
I've already decided on Chain of Vapor, however, I like repeal too.
Have you thought at all about putting an infernal tutor back in the sideboard?
Not until the maindeck is cramped for space again. Right now the 4th Infernal tutor is a filler slot in my eyes until they print something worth playing.
I really want Seething Song as a sorcery for the sideboard.
I know exactly what you should play maindeck to get rid of all the hate!
Well the other day I made some testings with my build and got the 4-0 vs merfolk I didn't need to test more because it was easy for me to win him and 3-1 vs Tempo 3shold,
Some points:
As B.Weapon says Definately you all boys should play 1 A.N and 0 IGG, the average damage by A.N is reduced drastically, I also won these game mainly with A.N but not always, and now I can wait to get a good hand sculpting it with briantorms ponders and Mysticals.
For example in one game I played 1st turn duress , 3rd turn duress from burning 4 turn orims and win. This dekcs only need 2 or 3 cards in hand to win, thats the QUESTION and the rest can be duresses and orims, if we have 3 lands in play 1 ritual and mox in hand and a tutor, the rest of cards can be perfectly disruption cards, awesome¡ ,Also vs Black decks is absurd to win I won the other day 2-0 vs that kind of decks he got to play duress hymn 2 tarmogoyfs and not win, I just was sit down wating with my braintorm and playin the most quantity of artifacts I could, in some point I did mystical tutor
to A.N and win .
Beucause of playing 12 mana and no fetching and 4 moxen + 8 cantrip I have no problems with wastelands.
Also 4 M.Tutor has served me well even if I do not play that clunky chain of vapor its probaly the card I most want to draw, sure I do not want 2 in hand but for sure I want at least 1 ALWAYS, regarding to the card disadvantage it provides, I find this argument absurd, Question: what is better: having in hand a petal or having the option to draw a D.Ritual in the next turn?
Also m.Tutor in conjunction with brainstorm is good.
A conclusion I reached is that playing 4 brianstorm 4 ponder and 12 lands is that I focus the 3shold and control games in a different way,
I mean for instance in the landstill match up (easy as no other) I can play enough disruption and wait until I feel comfortable with my hand in order to lay in a same turn for example 2 duress and 1 orims followed, issue that fascinate me.
Also I like the number '1' in this deck simplify, death mark ,and pyroblasts from side are all welcome.
I absolutly agree with B.Weapon in the most things he says except in the threat density , my deck simply plays higher threat density.
Thanks B.Weapon
@Pelikanudo: Just to be clear, your only routes to victory are 1 Ad Nauseam (ending with Tendrils) and 4 Burning Wish (for IGG, EtW, or Returns), correct?
Last edited by fearphage; 08-14-2009 at 03:43 AM. Reason: clarity
I wrote this post a long time ago. It was the dopest post I ever wrote... in 94.
in main there are 1 a.n 1 tendrils and 4 burnings ritgh
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