[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[Meister_Kai]

sphere of law is better against ETW, gobbos, grapeshot, and sligh type decks (zoo).

dovescape has always felt like a winmore to me. Landstill (ussually) has a slightly higher curve, which means you only want to play dovescape with enchantress already on the board. If you have enchantress on the board, you should be winning anyhow, and choke/city would be better in this slot.

@tomjulo list: looks very interesting, i plan on trying it out.

Yeah, I completely spazzed out on the grapeshot thing, that would make sphere a lot better.

As for the combo version, seems to me that it could benefit from gaea's touch.

[roopa]

i would concentrate more on the goblins thing =/

Why is the combo deck running 3 planar void? Did i miss something?

[Gibbie_X]

I played a Dovescape against the mirror at GP Chicago, and it was the win move. He had no Confinement, nor could he get one. I was protected, and he would of had to make more birds then me. It boils down to that when you are playing Dovescape. You will make more birds, because you are drawing more then any deck(Blue wishes it could draw 9 cards a turn) because you don't have to cast spells to draw. So you have lots-o-birds.

Ground Seal is just good, stops Ruins, Stronghold, Loam, and Reanimation, and you draw a card.

I like that Dark Enchantress build. I had a friend make one like that and play it a GP Chicago, but it wasn't tuned like that one is. I think his main was geared for his meta, because I can't see ANY reason to run Seal of Doom main. I think it needs the true Enchantress with white. White has 3 of the most important cards; Grove, Confinement, and Tutor.

I just built one for shits and giggles, and I like it....

[boclfon479]

anyone have any news with this deck recently?

I did a little research on gatherer and took a look at all green or white enchantments. there was one that looked nice, Planar collapse.

I have a feeling this may be a useful card against some aggro decks because they will have to hold back on creatures, or let their early creatures die. It definitely doesn't stop them, but it could slow them down enough to let us set up a moat / confinement / elephant grass.


what do you guys think?

ALSO, I was toying around with throwing in a 1-of of Banefire for a mid-late game finisher. with the sanctum, we should almost always be able to cast it for X >= 5, so it will get through everything except a twincast or misdirection.

[Cyrus]

@boclfon479:

Planar Collapse doesn't really add anything to your board position. If you drop it before he plays the fourth creature, he can play around it. If you drop it after he played the fourth creature, he can still attack with them in 1 turn. And it can blow your own Argothian Enchantress too, that's just too symmetrical for me. Banefire is not necessary at all, Words of War is just plain better in most ways.

By the way, I'm planning on building a cheap version of Enchantress for a friend to introduce him to the format. I'd really appreciate any help:

Budget Enchantress


// Lands
8 [10E] Plains (1)
14 [TE] Forest (4)

// Creatures
4 [8E] Verduran Enchantress

// Spells
3 [OD] Ground Seal
1 [TE] Choke
4 [IN] Sterling Grove
4 [VI] Elephant Grass
1 [OD] Karmic Justice
4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
2 [TE] Mirri's Guile
3 [JU] Solitary Confinement
1 [ON] Words of Wilding
3 [5E] Wild Growth
1 [CFX] Sigil of the Empty Throne

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [OD] Ground Seal
SB: 2 [TE] Choke
SB: 1 [OD] Karmic Justice
SB: 2 [SHM] Runed Halo
SB: 1 [VI] City of Solitude
SB: 2 [9E] Sacred Ground
SB: 1 [DIS] Dovescape
SB: 3 [TE] Warmth
SB: 1 [10E] Aura of Silence
SB: 1 [LRW] Lignify

He'll eventually get the replenishes. Thanks in advance.

[GreenOne]

When he get the Replenishes he can switch to Words of War, with no fetches/duals. He also needs to get the argothians way before the replenishes. The deck can't suffer creature removal and the 1G instead of 1GG matters.

[PunkRocker1134]

I went back 5 pages and couldn't find a recent list for Enchantress. I'm just starting to get back into Legacy, and I always had an affinity for Enchantress. What I mean to ask in this short post is: could somebody post an updated list of Enchantress, sideboard and all, for me to work off of? Thanks.

-PunkRocker

[overseer1234]

I went back 5 pages and couldn't find a recent list for Enchantress. I'm just starting to get back into Legacy, and I always had an affinity for Enchantress. What I mean to ask in this short post is: could somebody post an updated list of Enchantress, sideboard and all, for me to work off of? Thanks.

-PunkRocker

Well, since the lists leave quite some space for personel preference I'll give you the stuff that just has to be in:

4 argothian enchantress
4 Enchantress presence
4 Sterling grove
4 elephant grass
3 solitari confinement
4 Utopia sprawl
2 Wild growth
2 replenish
2/3 winconditions (I run sigil/Hoofprints, mesa, and WoW)

21 land minimum (4 fetch, 3 dual, 2 sanctum, the rest propably like 3/4 plains and the rest forest)

For the rest I play like:
1 moat (some consider this part of the shell but because of budget treasons it sometime's isn't an option)
1 seal of primordium
1 oblivion ring
1 aura of silence
2 Ground seal (randomly kill loam, extirpate, slow down ichorid,reanimate,flashless hulk,... and cantrips so it's never really dead.)
1 karmic justice
1 city of solitude

Propably left some stuff open, but this last part is the thing that you can tweak 100% to your lyking

Obviously the sideboard is highly dependant of this but usually contains at least this:
1 replennish
2/3 choke/city of solitude
2 karmic justice
The rest is metadependant imho (4th wincodition if you fear earwig squad, sacred ground against stax/loam, CoP red against ofther annoying decks,...)

[Dr.AgOn]

Well, here's what I think is the minimum of important cards you need for a solid Enchantress deck (alias: the core)

Maindeck Core
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
2 Replenish
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Moat
1 Karmic Justice
1 Aura of Silence
1 Words of War
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
4 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Serra's Sanctum

Once, you've got these cards you can throw in stuff like
8 Forests
3 Plains
up to 1 Exploration
about 2 Wild Growth
about 2 Oblivion Rings
at least 2 Ground Seals
maybe a single Runed Halo or the third Confinement
(maybe even 2 or 3 Chrome Mox) <<< I'm not using these anymore, but some still are^^
maybe 2 Enlightened Tutor (when using these you might consider a singleton Tree of Tales and a one-of maindeck solution against control, such as choke or city of solitude)

Here's the Core for the Sideboard:
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Replenish
2 Karmic Justice
1 Aura of Silence
1 Sacred Ground
2 Choke (or 1 Choke, 1 Dovescape)
a minimum of 2 City of Solitudes

plus any number of
Runed Halo
Warmth
Aura of Silence
and the remaining Ground Seals, that didn't fit in the Main.

Well, that's my decklist. Have fun building and testing,
Dr.AgOn

P.S.
I wouldn't advise using any cards I didn't mention.

[PunkRocker1134]

Thanks for the help. I'll be building this over the next few months of so.

[Meister_Kai]

After playing Enchantress for the better part of 6 years, I figured it was time to change stuff up. To play something that I told myself was silly, and probably not as practical as it seemed on the internet. But I did it, I finally brought myself to play Elvish Spirit Guide and Gaea's Touch. Actually, after a while I went full balls to the wall and started running Spatula's list minus 2 Kirtar's Desire for 1 Oblivion Ring and 1 Moat. As I played and tested (irl, not that MWS shit) I realized a couple things about the cards I was using, and about Enchantress itself, some old some new.

1. Enchantress cannot win without an Enchantress effect in play. Other people have said it many times before, but if it hasn't sunk in yet, let it now. Barring the wild Moat lock down coupled with a Sigil of the Empty Throne, you are probably going to lose without Argothian or Presence. With this in mind, you have to ask yourself; what does Enchantress wish to accomplish?

2. Most deck lists are not focused. I am going to pull a percentage out of my ass and assume 80% of all Enchantress decks go for the "toolbox" approach. Enchantress does not control games (unless it plays Words of Wind) it just merely limits interaction; thus this thread is called "Solitaire". Solitary Confinement does not control games in a fashion that silver bullet ridden toolbox decks wish to do, but cards like Standstill control games. Every silver bullet you put in your deck dilutes your gameplan; to burn your opponent to death with WoW, or if your win is Sigil and your bullets costs decent mana, to overwhelm your opponent. Look at Spatula's list on page 64 of this thread, look at the cards used in the MD, it is designed to burn your opponent to death with WoW.

3. The deck is insanely metagame dependent. The last time I played Enchantress in a serious tournament was a GP Columbus qualifier in Columbus Ohio, 2007 (GP Flash). I didn't build my deck and SB to beat flash (LOL to that, seriously, don't even bother SB'ing against combo, its a waste of time, you scoop) but to beat the dozens of decks built to beat flash (Enchantress has a great matchup against thresh). I went 3-2, losing to flash and beating not flash. If you use the toolbox approach, you MUST be able to meta game correctly (the biggest decision is probably whether to even play the deck). The SB is almost always 100% metagame dependent (except maybe x amount of Choke).

4. The deck is too slow. The fundamental turn of this deck (which I define as having x2 enchantress effects + Solitary Confinement) is turn 4. On the draw, a lot of today's decks have either already killed you, or are just about to. With no other cards in hand, SC is a fog. With no Sterling Grove, the opponent will use Pridemage or Krosan Grip. This is why I like ESG and Touch so much; they speed up the fundamental turn of this deck. Even this isn't enough sometimes, because with even the slightest of permanent disruption or early counterspells, this card house falls down. No card is strong enough on its own (except Replenish, which is hands down the best card in the deck) to really propel this deck to the top. Something drastic needs to be done.

5. Finally, this deck is waiting and has been waiting for years. Waiting for a better Enchantress effect to come along, or what I would rather see, a much improved Cadaveous Bloom that costs G and has "Sacrifice an Enchantment: add x amount of mana to your mana pool, draw a card". Since drawing cards is "blue", I doubt this will happen.

Thats about all. If you expect to play this in Gencon (you wont be alone, there are always tons of Enchantress players there) know that you will probably win against janky aggro decks, but good aggro decks like Zoo will probably beat you more times than you would think. I recommend playing Choke and Sphere of Law in the sideboard, because you will face blue and you will face burn/goblins. Don't expect to win though, unless you are lucky and never face combo all day.

As for budget lists, the only cards you NEED are: 4 Argothian and 4 Presence. Everything else is metagame dependent. I REALLY recommend Replenish (3), Moat (1), Ground Seal (at least 2) and some type of kosher removal like Oblivion Ring, Seal of Primordium, or Seal of Fire. I personally like to have 2 other win conditions SB'ed, such as Sigil of the Empty Throne and Dovescape. I usually rotate them out every game to keep the opponent guessing (unless one or the other is clearly the right play).

As for Enchantress being a beginner's step into Legacy, its not that great of a deck. Even fully powered its pretty underpowered, and if no one has mentioned it yet (for shame) about 99% of the cards in this deck are only used in this deck. You would be better off building a bad Threshold deck, any deck whose cards are almost wholly interchangeable with other decks (again, threshold) or a good deck that can actually be bought on a budget (Ichorid without Lion's Eye Diamond).

I hope this sheds some light on Enchantress myths and helps all deck players, vets and noobs a like.

[bowvamp]

Wow, the above post really shed some light on the archetype, at least for me it did. Why elvish spirit guide? Why not just add more enchantments?

Next on my agenda is another question. Why not just run more enchantresses if enchantress is the decks only win-con?

Do enchantress-lists these days run Mirri's Guile? It seems like a decent card with fetches, a free top every turn.

Discuss!

[GreenOne]

Wow, the above post really shed some light on the archetype, at least for me it did. Why elvish spirit guide? Why not just add more enchantments?

Next on my agenda is another question. Why not just run more enchantresses if enchantress is the decks only win-con?

You could, theoretically, run a couple Verduran Enchantresses in the SB, cause people is definetly SB out their spot removal against a deck with zero targets. You can't do it in the MD though, to maximize opponent's dead cards.

The deck has a fundamental turn of 4, which is quite slow in the format. Fortunately, it runs A LOT of cards to make opponent's fundamental turn slower.
It's true that pridemage give this deck a lot of bad beatings, and it's also true that combo is unwinnable.

BUT we got a solid tribal aggro matchup, a solid blue based aggrocontrol matchup, and a good tempo and control matchups. This should work.

Of course enchantress, being a deck with a lot of answers, must be tweaked with the meta in mind, so you can actually have the right answers for the threats present where you play. Oblivion rings and Runed halos are good in Goyf/dreadnought metas, where Elephant grasses are good in tribal aggro metas.

Long story short, the fact that enchantress is slow is matched by the fact that it's able to effectively slowing down your opponent, and the fact that it must be tweaked for the meta to success is probably true for every deck running a good amount of answers (eg. should I run Wrath or EE? wrath if the meta is going to be tribal aggro, EE if aggrocontrol).

Enchantress is still a competitive deck in a lot of meta. When I went to Italian nationals 2009 (where I won last year with Enchantress), the field was about 1/4 canadian Thresh, 1/4 other blue decks, 1/4 goblins, 1/4 other decks. I ended up playing combo, just cause I liked the deck and wanted to have some serious fun! I was the only (non-ichorid) combo player in the room. This is indeed a great metagame for Enchantress.

[Meister_Kai]

@bowvamp: ESG is used because it can enable a turn 1 Argothian Enchantress or turn 2 Enchantress's Prescence. These two plays are, in my experience, the sole reason to run ESG (its a good reason). This means that I have upgraded Chrome mox to the old "card I will never play" slot that ESG once held, as neither ESG or mox are really useful post turn 1-2 and for all intents and purposes, chrome mox seems worse (unless you are mana screwed, or kept a one land hand, or some other invaribly bad situation).

Mirri's Guile is a good card, I ran it for awhile (still might). You kinda have to decide which one you want to use, it or Sylvan Library. Both have their pro's and con's and its sort of up to you to decide which one to use.

Like GreenOne said, you want to keep your opponents relevant cards to a minimum. I've never tried SB'ing one of the other Enchantress creatures, but it seems to me that it would be a purely game 2 sort of thing (they could SB out all removal, but then bring it back in game 3).

@GreenOne, holy crap, your right, Enchantress is good for you meta. If you were the only good combo deck there, it could of been the right play to just play Enchantress. You are also right on your +side points of Enchantress, I'm glad someone who has good experience with the deck took up the positive points while my post was mostly about the negative (two halfs make a whole!). The thing I like the most is the "fundamental turn slower" part, as this is true. The card in the deck that first comes to mind when I think of this is Elephant Grass. It basically stops Ichorid cold and greatly slows decks like Zoo and tribal. But yeah, if I lived in Italy I would play Enchantress in whatever large gatherings (such as nationals). I live only about 2 hours from where GenCon is every year, but cannot go. If I would go I would either play Enchantress for fun, or if I really wanted to win, Ichorid.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

After playing Enchantress for the better part of 6 years, I figured it was time to change stuff up. To play something that I told myself was silly, and probably not as practical as it seemed on the internet. But I did it, I finally brought myself to play Elvish Spirit Guide and Gaea's Touch. Actually, after a while I went full balls to the wall and started running Spatula's list minus 2 Kirtar's Desire for 1 Oblivion Ring and 1 Moat. As I played and tested (irl, not that MWS shit) I realized a couple things about the cards I was using, and about Enchantress itself, some old some new.

1. Enchantress cannot win without an Enchantress effect in play. Other people have said it many times before, but if it hasn't sunk in yet, let it now. Barring the wild Moat lock down coupled with a Sigil of the Empty Throne, you are probably going to lose without Argothian or Presence. With this in mind, you have to ask yourself; what does Enchantress wish to accomplish?

2. Most deck lists are not focused. I am going to pull a percentage out of my ass and assume 80% of all Enchantress decks go for the "toolbox" approach. Enchantress does not control games (unless it plays Words of Wind) it just merely limits interaction; thus this thread is called "Solitaire". Solitary Confinement does not control games in a fashion that silver bullet ridden toolbox decks wish to do, but cards like Standstill control games. Every silver bullet you put in your deck dilutes your gameplan; to burn your opponent to death with WoW, or if your win is Sigil and your bullets costs decent mana, to overwhelm your opponent. Look at Spatula's list on page 64 of this thread, look at the cards used in the MD, it is designed to burn your opponent to death with WoW.

3. The deck is insanely metagame dependent. The last time I played Enchantress in a serious tournament was a GP Columbus qualifier in Columbus Ohio, 2007 (GP Flash). I didn't build my deck and SB to beat flash (LOL to that, seriously, don't even bother SB'ing against combo, its a waste of time, you scoop) but to beat the dozens of decks built to beat flash (Enchantress has a great matchup against thresh). I went 3-2, losing to flash and beating not flash. If you use the toolbox approach, you MUST be able to meta game correctly (the biggest decision is probably whether to even play the deck). The SB is almost always 100% metagame dependent (except maybe x amount of Choke).

4. The deck is too slow. The fundamental turn of this deck (which I define as having x2 enchantress effects + Solitary Confinement) is turn 4. On the draw, a lot of today's decks have either already killed you, or are just about to. With no other cards in hand, SC is a fog. With no Sterling Grove, the opponent will use Pridemage or Krosan Grip. This is why I like ESG and Touch so much; they speed up the fundamental turn of this deck. Even this isn't enough sometimes, because with even the slightest of permanent disruption or early counterspells, this card house falls down. No card is strong enough on its own (except Replenish, which is hands down the best card in the deck) to really propel this deck to the top. Something drastic needs to be done.

5. Finally, this deck is waiting and has been waiting for years. Waiting for a better Enchantress effect to come along, or what I would rather see, a much improved Cadaveous Bloom that costs G and has "Sacrifice an Enchantment: add x amount of mana to your mana pool, draw a card". Since drawing cards is "blue", I doubt this will happen.

Thats about all. If you expect to play this in Gencon (you wont be alone, there are always tons of Enchantress players there) know that you will probably win against janky aggro decks, but good aggro decks like Zoo will probably beat you more times than you would think. I recommend playing Choke and Sphere of Law in the sideboard, because you will face blue and you will face burn/goblins. Don't expect to win though, unless you are lucky and never face combo all day.

As for budget lists, the only cards you NEED are: 4 Argothian and 4 Presence. Everything else is metagame dependent. I REALLY recommend Replenish (3), Moat (1), Ground Seal (at least 2) and some type of kosher removal like Oblivion Ring, Seal of Primordium, or Seal of Fire. I personally like to have 2 other win conditions SB'ed, such as Sigil of the Empty Throne and Dovescape. I usually rotate them out every game to keep the opponent guessing (unless one or the other is clearly the right play).

As for Enchantress being a beginner's step into Legacy, its not that great of a deck. Even fully powered its pretty underpowered, and if no one has mentioned it yet (for shame) about 99% of the cards in this deck are only used in this deck. You would be better off building a bad Threshold deck, any deck whose cards are almost wholly interchangeable with other decks (again, threshold) or a good deck that can actually be bought on a budget (Ichorid without Lion's Eye Diamond).

I hope this sheds some light on Enchantress myths and helps all deck players, vets and noobs a like.

Good post.


A couple solutions that I was brainstorming before real life sucked me back out;

Verduan Enchantress in the SB (MD?). Is it really better than, say, Exalted Angel or some other fatty?

Living Wish in the MD. Previously I'd dismissed it as too slow, but the format seems to have slowed a turn or so (I mean our winnable match-ups have).

[Meister_Kai]

Good post.


A couple solutions that I was brainstorming before real life sucked me back out;

Verduan Enchantress in the SB (MD?). Is it really better than, say, Exalted Angel or some other fatty?

Living Wish in the MD. Previously I'd dismissed it as too slow, but the format seems to have slowed a turn or so (I mean our winnable match-ups have).

@ line 1: I don't think either is a good idea. Maybe the Verduan Enchantress could be ok in the SB (against combo, lol, or a deck that would SB out removal, like perhaps thresh/zoo?) but only in game 2, as in game 3 they could bring it back in (you taking the VE out in game 3, which could reset both decks to game 1 status, which could be good).

@ line 2: You might remember that when I first started posting back in 2007 about my deck I played U and living wish. My wish targets were a land, Akroma, Squee, Cloud of Faeries, and Eternal Witness (I think). I think if any wish targets would be in the board it would be a Serra's Sanctum, a V Enchantress or whatever today's Akroma Angel of Wrath equivalent is. I don't think its necessary, especially because all it would do is, as you said, make the games we already win win-mores. I'm up for testing almost anything at this point though.

Enchantress really needs a card like the one I described though. Until then it will be a tier 2-3 deck, depending on where you live (unless that place is Italy apparently).

[Gibbie_X]

I had posted a comment earlier about not giving in, fighting to be able to beat the decks we can't. I didn't want to believe that certain match ups were hopeless. I hate admitting beat, but even more I hate admitting when I'm wrong, even if it is frequent. I played in the GenCon Legacy Championship, and had to learn this lesson hard. I knew the meta was going to be heavy blue, it always is, so I played Choke main. The combo match up is winnable, you have to have the god hand and they have to have shit, but we know that won't happen in the later rounds. I had Root Maze and Runed Halo in my SB for Ad Nausem, because I wanted to fight til the bitter end, and it was sour, bitter, and foul.

Just a little extra info. After waking up at 6 to get there on time, my car blew a part and took a shit 15 miles from GenCon. Should have taken that as an omen....

Round one was against 43 land, one I think I wasn't really prepared for, but was confident about. He took game one with Factory, porting me to death. Second game I brought in my tech, not necessarily against this deck, but a card I have come to like. It stopped his Ports, scooping to game three. After he Grips two Presences, one of which I search with a Grove, I Replenished to get my engine online. I searched out Ground Seal to stop his Loam. He drops Chalice for 3, preventing me from dropping Confinement. I was stable enough, and had Pandemonium in hand, so did what Enchantress does best, drew nearly all my deck until I had the Burst to kill him. I found out later that it was Owen Turtenwald. Pity it was my only win, because I am sure it was his only loss.

Round two was Dredge, a match-up I enjoy, because Grass is good. I didn't even get to drop a third land first game. Second game he saw his Rays, even though he had no land for most of that game. Nailing both Grasses I had, I promptly died to Ichorid and zombies. I swear I thought he was off first turn game one, it was fubar.

Round three was Ad Nausem, but not the blue-black version. This one had Wild Cantors and Kobolds. I sided in Root Maze, hoping to hold him back. Seeing that he didn't have much artifact mana, he nailed me 2-0.

Round four, finally run into a Thresh, a game I was looking forward too. First game I kept a 1 land hand, the got bashed in the face with goyf and mongoose. Game 2 I started strong, getting my engine rolling, holding him off a little with Grass. He had goyf knocking for 5 a turn, so I didn't have time to make mistakes, but I did anyways. I forgot to Guile twice, and made a really risky move with my Guile and Tutor. It worked out, but not enough. He did also use 3 FoW, his last one getting my replenish to win the game. I had Choke in hand, and never cast it, which was also a HUGE mistake. That is a card that needs to be countered or destroyed, and I could have forced him to Force it, saving my vital Replenish.

After my friend and I dropped, we proceeded to fix my car, then I went back to Cincy, and drank two steins of margaritas.

Some tech for thought, I have seen the new Zoo, and it is rather nasty. My sideboard contains a Sphere of Law and Aegis of Honor, both of which I didn't get to play. Getting a Grass is vital against this as well, keeping Natacl and goyf from running a sunder,

@ Meister_Kai

I liked the post, but some I feel is incorrect, in my opinion. I've been working on my Enchantress deck since Replenish was unbanned, and I have to say I have never been more focused on a single deck archtype or strategy, ever, but Enchantress is such a challenge to play and play against. You are right, We fold to combo, and that can include burn, because the fact the deck is so slow. But I think you underestimate the versatility and longevity of the deck. I have beaten Ad Nasuem, against a really good player I play with all the time. I had the right stuff at the right time, and he didn't kill me first turn. When playing Enchantress, you should giggle at ANY aggro deck, good or bad, Goblins especially. They have to string the perfect goblin chain, which can happen, but rarely does. Grass is your saving grace, which is why you run 4x, cause even dropping it third turn against goblins can slow them down from the lethal swing. so what if lackey poops out 2 Gang-Bangers, they can't attack with much if they don't have more than 3 lands. Personally, I think the critical turn for Enchantress is the second, because, here I agree, as would everyone else, You have to drop an Enchantress effect or at least something to slow them down. Dropping the right 'tool' instead of a draw effect can slow them down to your game, giving you the advantage, because you will out draw them once the engine is online. I have won with out Confinement hitting the board. Your opening hand is too critical, which can be said for many decks, but too many rely on top decking. Aggressive mulligans can be stressful, especially if you run a low land count. Lastly, you are right about us needing another Enchantress effect that is worth playing, but blue doesn't have all the card draw, Harmonize being a newer green draw effect. Green's drawing has stipulations for the most part, where blue you just draw.

With Verduran, she is just too weak and vulnerable. We can't afford to loss a fresh Enchantress, and Swords is too prevalent. A new one would have to be an enchantment, but a draw when you play effect, possibly one that is for every player.

(1 or ) Enchantress Aura
Whenever any player plays an enchantment, that player draws a card.

(1), Sacrifice Enchantress Aura: (Here I want to put destroy target enchantment, but that seems too good. Or how about this, 'Target player draws cards equal to the number of enchantment they control.')

Does that seem to too good?

[Shawon]

With Verduran, she is just too weak and vulnerable. We can't afford to loss a fresh Enchantress, and Swords is too prevalent. A new one would have to be an enchantment, but a draw when you play effect, possibly one that is for every player.

(1 or ) Enchantress Aura
Whenever any player plays an enchantment, that player draws a card.

(1), Sacrifice Enchantress Aura: (Here I want to put destroy target enchantment, but that seems too good. Or how about this, 'Target player draws cards equal to the number of enchantment they control.')

Does that seem to too good?

Here's something cooler that I've been thinking of:


Jace the Cross-Dressing Enchantress
Planeswalker - Jace

+1: Whenever you cast an enchantment spell this turn, draw a card.

-2: Search your library for an enchantment card and reveal that card. Shuffle your library, then put the card on top of it.

-5: Return all enchantment cards from your graveyard to the battlefield. (Auras with nothing to enchant remain in your graveyard.)

3

(I am serious about the abilities and loyalty, mind you)

[Meister_Kai]

@Gibbie X: You live in Cincinnati? I have friends there and if you ever go to knob creek for the gun show and/or the Louisville KY convention center for the Zendikar prerelease, maybe we can get together and talk shop (I actually briefly talked to someone who was trying to get the parts together for a G/W version of Enchantress at the M10 prerelease in Kentucky). About Gencon, dude it sucks I know. When I played in GP Flash, I went about it with a "damn the odds fuck ya'll playas here I come" attitude and ended up losing to what I thought I would and vise versa. It's hard to lose even when you know its almost inevitable, and even harder to lose to decks you think you should win against (threshold).

There are three things you bring up in your post that I actually forgot to put into my mega-post, that (1) Enchantress has to mulligan a bunch (although not as much as Ichorid, you basically mull if you don't have an Enchantress or a lot of hate) and (2) the critical turn for the deck. I talked about the fundamental turn of the deck because that's when this deck starts doing what its more or less built to do, while the critical turn is more like when this deck starts to do stuff that actually starts limiting interaction, or if you don't play ESG (which I suggest you try) when you start dropping your engine.

The last thing is point (3), or that this deck is surprisingly hard to play. Especially in the late game, there are A LOT of things to keep track of and remember, for a rather embarrassing example during GP flash I both forgot to pay for E grass and Sylvan library two turns in a row, which I myself noticed and pointed out, calling a judge, getting a warning, and basically making an ass out of myself. Definitely the low point of my magic playing career. Things like activating Guile are the things that get decks like this out of messy situations, and forgetting them usually have terrible consequences.

I also don't think you should just giggle at any aggro deck. Pridemage is just brutal, seriously. It is usually paired with Grip, and if they end up getting one or more of both, that could be game. However, I have lost more than one game to aggro decks by just forgetting I could block with Argothian Enchantress.

The only thing I can say you really did wrong besides the obvious mistakes is keeping a one land hand against threshold. If they don't outright stifle a fetchland (royally fucking you) then they will just flat out Daze or probably Spell Snare everything you play until they kill you. Actually unless you play ESG and have a opening hand of Argothian, land (1), ESG and other G costing enchantments, you should never keep a one land hand. I know its hard to mulligan, especially in a tournament when you think you have the nuts, but I guess its something that's best learned the hard way.

I have been trying to fit U back into the deck since I took it out. Every time I see Attunement or Hatching Plans I want to put them in the deck. There was a time when I was trying to fit Counterbalance in (which would of been awesome if you could somehow recur Sterling Grove every turn, but what I really tried to do was break it with Soothsaying). I really want that enchantment I explained earlier to be made, it would make Hatching Plans AWESOME.

[Gibbie_X]

@ Meister_Kai

I'm not sure if I'm going to any pre-releases anytime soon. I, in all seriousness, loathe T2 right now. I am waiting for extended to rotate, and maybe play that, but for the most part it's legacy or EDH. But I am totally down for talking shop anytime...

Hatching plans looks sick as hell, thought of pairing it with Phantatog or Auratog? Phantatog would be the better one, since you can pitch the cards you just drew as well. I thought of an idea of extended, but that's not for this forum....

I think one of the reasons I like playing the deck is that it is hard to play, hard to beat if you aren't ready for it, and almost a goldfish deck. When playing this deck, you aren't playing Magic, you are trying to stop the other person from playing Magic, or that's atleast how my friend described it. At the beginning of the match, we don't care what they are playing, we just need to start drawing cards. We do just shut off any interaction, and that really makes me giggle.

I had actually just posted in Zoo about pridemage, and it is sick