[Deck] Zoo

[Soldar]

I'm no expert on the Zoo archetype, but I was playtesting with KrzyMoose the night before he wrecked our local Mox tournament and came to this conclusion about Path to Exile (I was playing 4c Aggro-Loam):

Any of the decks that play a light number of basic lands (2-3) are going to be fetching out their basic lands to play around Price of Progress, since we all know it's coming. Path to Exile quickly becomes ridiculous in those matchups. There will be times when you have to throw one early, but there will also be times where you get to have the cheapest removal spell with no drawback against a Tombstalker or a Goyf.

[Nelis]

I'll try and answer these to the best of my knowledge, since they seem fairly straightforward to me:

The explanation I got was thus: Zoo is a hyper-aggressive deck whose sole consideration is toward the early game. Any cards not fitting that criteria need to offer a disproportionately massive advantage in the mid/late game to offset the opportunity cost of the early game spell they replace.

From that, I would say it's logical to assume 2 is the best number because you're unlikely to draw multiples, you leave maximum space for important early game spells and you will probably draw one by or around the time you need it.

I've always felt that 2 copies of one card is too small a number to reliably draw it when you really need it. I'm inclined to always put in at least 3 copies.

But aside from that, I wonder if it's really problematic with 8+ fetch and the choice not to draw the second copy. I mean, how often do you actually need all three cards you've draw with Sylvan Library or even have enough lands in play to cast those 3 cards anyway.

[Valtrix]

I've always felt that 2 copies of one card is too small a number to reliably draw it when you really need it. I'm inclined to always put in at least 3 copies.

But aside from that, I wonder if it's really problematic with 8+ fetch and the choice not to draw the second copy. I mean, how often do you actually need all three cards you've draw with Sylvan Library or even have enough lands in play to cast those 3 cards anyway.

This is true, but a lot of times 2 is the right number for cards that you like to see, that have a lot of effect, but that you don't really need to see or especially really really hate to see multiples of. Under that extra criteria I would say that library would fit as a 2-of. It's not needed, but the effect can be huge.

[jazzykat]

I see how no qusali pridemage builds have been very successful. However, given that cb has to be the worst thing for this deck besides chalice=1 And shackles all of which it kills I am interested in the reasoning for not including it.

[Svenyboy]

Hello everybody,

that's my RGW Zoo:


Creature:
4 Kird Ape
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Instant:
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Magma Jet
4 Path to Exile

Land:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
2 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

Sideboard:
4 Choke
2 Krosan Grip
4 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Pyrostatic Pillar


Cardchoice:

Knight of the Reliquary: A good Beater. He can be bigger than Goyf and makes a good lategame. Furthermore he gives us a constant manabase and protects for manascrew. Beside he synergies 100% with Fireblast.
Knight>Thoctar.

Lightning Helix: Good Lifegain. That's important for the mirror vs. Price of Progress.

Path to Exile: I try to win the game with Goyf, Nacatl and Knight. Tombstalker and Dreadnoughts are targets of Exile because they defend us and have a easy game. Very important to have a safe game.

I don't play Lavamancer because he is to mana intensely.
I don't play Price of Progress because he makes to much damage for myself. Beside you can play around PoP with Basics.

Choke: The win card about Blue.

Sulfuric Vortex: Landstill! We don't like the wishboard with pulse of the fields. Furthermore good for the lategame.

Krosan Grip: No explanation. 2 because Pridemage.

Umezwa's Jitte: Mirror.

Tormod's Crypt: Fastcombo.


What do you think about my Build?

[sco0ter]

4 Fireblast

If I played Zoo I'd only play 2-3 of them. It's card that you only want to see once in a game as finisher.

[Svenyboy]

If I played Zoo I'd only play 2-3 of them. It's card that you only want to see once in a game as finisher.

But I think 2 in game are good, too. You can pump your Knight and he can finish the game.

[Valtrix]

2 fireblasts are definitely way too much. It is not good, since you may not have that many mountains, and fireblas is one of the last cards you want to play in a game. You need at most 3, but I personally I still wouldn't play more than 2. You really don't want to draw it that much, and since you're playing 4 Knights, you already have things in your hand you may not be able to play. I would cut 1 fireblast for a horizon canopy. Since you're running knight you should run at least 1, and the extra help against mana denial is very useful.

Also, what is the justification for pyrostatic pillar in the board? I feel like you could get more useful things, especially since it hurts you so much.

[MMogg]

2 fireblasts are definitely way too much. It is not good, since you may not have that many mountains, and fireblas is one of the last cards you want to play in a game. You need at most 3, but I personally I still wouldn't play more than 2. You really don't want to draw it that much, and since you're playing 4 Knights, you already have things in your hand you may not be able to play. I would cut 1 fireblast for a horizon canopy. Since you're running knight you should run at least 1, and the extra help against mana denial is very useful.

Also, what is the justification for pyrostatic pillar in the board? I feel like you could get more useful things, especially since it hurts you so much.

Maybe it's just a reflection of how crappy MWS draws are, but I playtested 2 and never drew one in about 10 matches. Zoo has no library manipulation so 3-4 of whatever you think is necessary might be worthwhile to ensure drawing one.

[KrzyMoose]

Zoo has no library manipulation

You should be playing 2 Sylvan Library. That card is bonkers.

To be honest, I'm pretty sure Alix Hatfield's list is 98% optimal.

[MMogg]

You should be playing 2 Sylvan Library. That card is bonkers.

To be honest, I'm pretty sure Alix Hatfield's list is 98% optimal.

But then we're back to the same problem of drawing them. Cards you only run two copies of in Zoo are not easily drawn, including Sylvan.

I'm not to keen on his use of Knight of the Reliquary either, both as a comparison to Thoctar and only running two.

Alix Hatfield placed 4th when he used Thoctar and 7th when he used KotR.

[Manhattan]

But then we're back to the same problem of drawing them. Cards you only run two copies of in Zoo are not easily drawn, including Sylvan.

I'm not to keen on his use of Knight of the Reliquary either, both as a comparison to Thoctar and only running two.

Alix Hatfield placed 4th when he used Thoctar and 7th when he used KotR.

Two results don't really qualify as a statistic.

[MMogg]

Two results don't really qualify as a statistic.

Hence the wink -->

[Valtrix]

(You may be just joking about thoctar, but to reiterate in case)Knight is simply better because he can always become bigger than tarmogoyf, and almost every other creature out there. More often than not he will be almost as big as thoctar to begin with, and if you don't need him bigger then you can just swing with him anyway. As an added bonus he can't be REBlasted and you can do tricks with fireblast.

You may want Sylvan as a 3-of, but personally with this deck I hate playing too much of cards I never want to see multiple of in a game, because I've gotten screwed with that so much in the past and I hate it. There's also a big difference between running 2-of something to running 0-of something.

[KrzyMoose]

Oh, I'm in favor of KotR.

But 2-ofs are fine, especially when they're late-ish game cards, which stuff like Sylvan Library, KotR, and Fireblast are.

[MMogg]

(You may be just joking about thoctar, but to reiterate in case)Knight is simply better because he can always become bigger than tarmogoyf, and almost every other creature out there. More often than not he will be almost as big as thoctar to begin with, and if you don't need him bigger then you can just swing with him anyway. As an added bonus he can't be REBlasted and you can do tricks with fireblast.

You may want Sylvan as a 3-of, but personally with this deck I hate playing too much of cards I never want to see multiple of in a game, because I've gotten screwed with that so much in the past and I hate it. There's also a big difference between running 2-of something to running 0-of something.

Hmm, I'll need to test the Knight. He seems ideal against an opponent playing multiple fetches because Zoo does as well. That's also a good point about REBs.

I find I have difficulty drawing 2 ofs and sometimes even 3 ofs. As I said before, maybe it's Magic Workstation giving me bad draws. I'll try three Sylvans and test her out.

[Valtrix]

Hmm, I'll need to test the Knight. He seems ideal against an opponent playing multiple fetches because Zoo does as well.

Keep in mind that Knight only cares about your lands, so don't think he's a terravore :P It shouldn't matter how many fetches your opponent plays to use him (Except every point of damage does help us.) Also, if you run knight try running a horizon canopy or two. It does a lot of good things by making sure you have enough mana to play things quickly, then drawing you into a threat later. It's extra good with knight because if you need him to get bigger you can go get that and then draw, since you likely didn't need that third land besides playing knight.

[hungryLIKEALION]

I still remember the very first time I posted about Knight on here, and how so many people were against me... I'm pretty happy to see so much of the community has come around to my perspective on it :)

[MMogg]

Keep in mind that Knight only cares about your lands, so don't think he's a terravore :P It shouldn't matter how many fetches your opponent plays to use him (Except every point of damage does help us.) Also, if you run knight try running a horizon canopy or two. It does a lot of good things by making sure you have enough mana to play things quickly, then drawing you into a threat later. It's extra good with knight because if you need him to get bigger you can go get that and then draw, since you likely didn't need that third land besides playing knight.

Hehe, Oops, I totally misread him. Wow, he's even weaker than I had thought. I'll try him out nevertheless, but I'm just not feeling it looking at him on paper. At best he's a turn three 4/4, who may or may not get bigger. As you can probably tell, when it comes to playing an aggro deck I'm more into reliability and stability than tricks and situational cards.

[Valtrix]

Isn't a card that can always outclass most other threats better than something that is a static 5/4? And a turn three 4/4 is not really worse than a 5/4 for our purposes, especially when that 4/4 turns into a 6/6 and then doesn't die to the 4/5 goyf.