[DTW] Bant Survival

[beastman]

Jak.-->

I'm usually a BIG fan of Trinket Mage and his package

Heh Heh.

[Jak]

Heh Heh.

Lol.

At Elgoff, I tried Trinket Mage a while back since getting EE gives the deck some nice removal for Counterbalance, Goyf, Mongoose, etc but it was just so mana intensive and slow that it was easier to get Predator or Sower/Drake (Although I am not running either one of these at the moment).

Going for the Spore Frog lock game 1 is interesting but removing Wonder is the wrong idea. One of the only ways to win with the Lock is having creatures that can fly over and beat. Zoo can just chump and draw burn, Goblins will probably put you low enough to SGC you out, and it gives Elves time to find an answer MD. Wonder is so crazy against aggro.

Rhox War Monk is also something good especially Vialing it in. I think it helps in more math ups than the Spore Frog lock, but still, let me know how the games go this weekend.

[Waikiki]

imo the late game is allready heavily on our favor you guys should be focussing on the early game. My newest list is doing really good. It doesn't run any vials tho.

Trinket mage is indeed too slow.

Also going 4-1 at another online tournament. Will be taking the deck to tournament play 30th of august.

[beastman]

In all fairness I don't think elves has an answer MD, but I agree wonder should not be cut, its amazing.

[Jak]

In all fairness I don't think elves has an answer MD, but I agree wonder should not be cut, its amazing.

I thought Survival Elves had an answer or something. W/e it is still such a good card and is amazing with Rhox War Monk and the exalted mechanic.

Waikiki, can you post your list?

[elgoff]

I finished in 10th position this sunday with this deklist:

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Plains
2 Forest

4 Aether Vial
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Rhox War Monk
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
1 Trygon Predator
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Squee
1 Wonder

SB
4 Path to Exile
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Spore Frog
1 Genesis
3 Krosan Grip
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Meddling Mage
1 Gilded Drake
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress

3-2-1 with 33 players, Montreal, Face à Face Goyf-Walk.

[edit]

OK, first of all, I'll go with the list cards choice over the original Jak had done.

-1 Savannah, +1 Plains (there's a lot of Moon effect and Waste in my meta, so Swords is almost MVP)

Sideboard choice:
4 Path to Exile (Nice to having them here!!! I loved to switch Swords for Path when lige gain becomes relevant, also good VS Meddling Mage)
1 Rhox War Monk (Ok slot, some match up you just want them fast, especially Zoo, Goblins, Burn...)
1 Spore Frog (Just love it! Soooo good! Always in Game 2 with Genesis to Fog/Combo)
1 Genesis (Just love it! Soooo good! Always in Game 2 with Spore Frog to Fog/Combo))
3 Krosan Grip (Just love it! Soooo good! Can't go under 3x MVP sideboard card)
1 Gaddock Teeg (No use today, because I didn't face Landstill, nor Ultimate Walkers)
2 Meddling Mage (I'll cut one for sure, I think it's ok for me to fetch it when needed)
1 Gilded Drake (No use today at all, need to go with Waterfront Bouncer or Tradewind Rider or bye bye! I don't wanna play Tradewind, ? about Waterfront Bouncer...I probably wont put him or Sower either in next time)
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress (Just love it! Soooo good! The only thing post Natural Order you can answer to Progenitus, gives a hard time to Merfolks if they don't have an active Vial on the "battlefield ;)")

Before the tournament started I had 2 questions I was asking me...First 60 or 61 cards? The extra was the second Vendilion Clique for me. I went with 2x Vendilion Clique and I was really happy with that. Then, about my sideboard...14 cards, I had 2x Gaddock Teeg and I wanted to put 1 or 2 of those cards: Gilded Drake, Llawan Cephalid Empress, Kira Glass Spinner and Glen Elendra Archmage. I opted for cutting a Teeg and to go with Llawan and Drake. Now that I've played the tournament, Kira would have been a godess over Gilded Drake.

Now the rounds...I'll go with a brief deswcription 'cause I didn't wrote down my starting hands...but I did wrote some notes!

Fight1 vs Faerie Stompy (Seb)
1. I win die roll and keep my hand, I had Fetch + Hierarch and a lot of 1CC. I started with Fetch-->Tropical, Hierarch, go. Afetr that, I think seb went for Chalice for 1 stalling me foreever to finnally get Sea Drake in with 2x Swords of F/I...not much I could do, I scoop!
+ 1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress, + 3 Krosan Grip, -1 Eternal Witness, -2 Vial, -1 Rhox
2. I win drastically with an incredible hand. Accel into Survival-->Llawan for the win!
3. I remember that again I had Fetch + Hierarch and a lot of 1CC and seb had 3x Chalice for 1 in a row...the game took forever and I finally won the game staying at 2 lifes top decking Grips over Grips...
1-0-0

Fight2 vs W/B Weenie (Joshua)
1. It's a kid, he already knows his going to loose, so I don't even have to mindtrick my opponent!!! He start the game...Life total after game1 = -7/41 Damm, a flying Khox + Rafiq it's brutal!! I was abble to block several attacks from him due to Wonder in my graveyard...
-1 Eternal Witness, -1 Trygon, +1 Sprore Frog, +1 Genesis
2. I manage to keep Bob of the board twice. Killed him with an exalted Spore Frog...
2-0-0

Fight3 vs Zoo (Benoit Ross finished 7th)
1. I win die roll and keep my hand, I had Fetch + Hierarch but no other mana source. He bolted the Noble...got some little kitties + burn me to death.
-1 Trygon, -4 Vial, -4 Swords, +1 Rhox, +1 Sprore Frog, +1 Genesis, +2 Meddling, +4 Path
2. I have a hard time winning the game, he Path my Rhox twice...but I eventually win, really close. Lucky for me I named Lightning Bolt with a Mage (second turn) and my opponent had 3 in hand and 1 top deck the turn after!!!
3. Pretty even again...but my opponent his overwhelming me...with a Jitte and 2-3 creatures. I have Qasali on the board but I space out 2 turns before killing the Jitte... after that I don't have anything on the board and he has like 2-3 creatures still there!! Life points are 8 for me and 4 for him...he removes the extra counters on his Jitte to gain 4 lifes, then after that he cast Price of Progress, killing both of us at the same time (both players with 4x nonbasics)!?!?!?!? Bascally, he gave me that DRAW!!!!
2-0-1

Fight4 vs Merfolks (FX)
1. I got wrecked game1 pretty fast with Lord of Atlantis, Needle and Jitte.
-4 Vial, -2 Vendilion Clique, -1 Eternal Witness, +4 Path, +1 Llawan, +2 Grip
2. Llawan did the job...and a Grip on a Vial...
3. Close game but I eventually die over a smurf swarm, my opponent is at 5 lifes dying next turn...
2-1-1

Fight5 vs Survival-Progenitus GWB (Alex Hayne)
1. I guess I had a very good hand...my opponent scoop after I Forced his Natural Order!!
-4 Vial, -1 Rhox, -1 Eternal Witness, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Sprore Frog, +1 Genesis, +1 Llawan
2. Again I have a very nice hand but with a lot of removal this time. He Thouhtseize me and take 'Goyf, I draw Survival next turn!!! I get the engine going third turn, get genesis/frog...and I killed him with a flying exalted Spore Frog...BANT Survival his just plain better.

Fight6 vs Canadian Thresh (Francis finished 4th)
We can't draw into Top 8 because he wont pass if we do. I would have made Top8 with that final draw (only me from the 4 players at 10 points before last round).

I don't remember any plays!!?!? I won game1 and couldn't close the others. Actually, Nimble Mongoose did all the job for him. He also Fire/Ice pretty often my Hierarchs...
3-2-1

After playing the deck, I found I was missing something in the deck. I needed more control spells, I don't know some counters, tutors, Spell Snare or even Daze would do. I didn't make the overall thinking to choose between all, it will come. I also didn't really like Aether Vial in here, the deck gets going way faster than the time it takes to put some counters on it. I think it's a little win more... I rather have some spells to protect or even fetch Survival... Sure it's gets you free critters online but it didn't help me win... it just added to the injure!

[Jak]

I like the list :). What did you play and how did you lose/tie?

[Waikiki]

yeah I would like some more detail ;)

[elgoff]

I updated my last post with a little resume...

[Jak]

SBing Vial out against Merfolk is the wrong play. I would have gone -1 Rhox War Monk, -4 Spellstutter Sprite, -1 Eternal Witness, +4 Path to Exile, +1 Llawan, +1 Grip or something. It sounded like you played against a Merfolk list with Needle, Jitte, and Vial which is weird all maindeck.

Canadian Thresh sucks with the burn and mana disruption. I have found that if you can get a solid mana base, you should win. This isn't easy though but Vial helps tremendously with the "mana" issues and getting rid of Nimble Mongoose.

I'm glad you liked the deck but Vial should have helped in the MUs you lost.

[XiaN]

Long time reader and finally i managed to register to discuss my new favourite deck.

I played Bant Survival for some month on our weekly legacy tournament now and i allways did 2:2, 3:2 and stuff like that. I really like this deck. I'm a big fan of toolboxes and the UGW shard :D

So i registered to share some thoughts on this deck.

My current list

Creature [22]

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Rafiq of the Many
2 Rhox War Monk

1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Wonder
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Cephalid Constable
1 Eternal Witness
1 Phyrexian Dreadnough

Instant [15]

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stifle

Enchantment [4]

4 Survival of the Fittest

Land [19]

4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
2 Tundra

1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard

4 Krosan Grip
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Genesis
1 Spore Frog
1 Meddling Mage
1 Gilded Drake

My meta is defined by Counterbalance/Top and a lot of controll.

StifleNought was a try. Never made anything, but looked good on the paper ^^
Cephalid Constable never did anything, too. Goes out.

I never boarded in Sporefrog and Gilded Drake. So maybe they are open slots too.

But now my questions :

- Ever list plays 4 Spellstutter Sprites. I tried them and they never did anything. I simply hadn't the mana open to use them and if i had, i never hit any spell. I simply used them as Forcepitches and moved them out soon after.

- In comes Daze. Never did anything either. But i personally never liked Daze since i play magic. Maybe i simply can't play them or i'm just pissed that they are such a bad draw in the mid/lategame. So they moved out.

- In comes Stifle. I love this card, but they didn't made well as well.

Maybe i should move in the Bant Charm. Against all the Eva's and Landstills in my meta sometimes i simply die to one creature big creature. Maybe Bant Charm helps there.

But now the reason i post this post :D

I'll do the "Never do it!" ... I will suggest to move Force of Will to the sideboard and play more pridemages and Bant Charm over the Force

With Bant Charm, Swords and Quasali we have more then enouth outs to preboard threads. We don't really fear anything other then combo preboard. And for matchups where we really need the force, we have it in the sideboard.

The problem i had with force is that we have no "I like to pitch you" cards in the maindeck.

Lets see what we can pitch, based on my list

Force ( Hum yeah ... don't want to pitch you )
Brainstorm ( No i wan't do pimp my hand )
RWM ( I want to play him )
Rafiq of the Many ( No i want to win fast )
Wonder ( ;) )
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner ( Maybe, but Kira fits better on the battlefield )
Cephalid Constable ( Yes i wan't to pitch you )

You allways remove a good and valuable spell. I know you allways have to remove "good" spells, but i feel that i don't want to remove any cards to force in Survival Bant. Simply because they are better on the board.

[Waikiki]

I think your list is trying to do too much.

Faerie is a really tricky card to use. You do not really keep mana open for it if you could also land a goyf or survival or anything.

@ moving fow to the sb because you dont want to remove a blue card because they are too good. Maybe you are fowwing the wrong spell then.

If the spell your countering isn't that gamebreaking you want to pitch a rafiq for it,you shouldn't fow it at all and fight it some other way.

I play 3 spellstutters myself. I used to test daze but the landdrop is just too much.

[Goblin Snowman]

I'd be interested in seeing how having effectively no Countermagic works out for you. I'm still at 4 Sprites myself right now, as my latest list ran something like 8 Faeries total, but since I ended up hating that list, I'll likely be cutting back. Also, I hate Daze. Hate hate hate hate hate. It always looks good when you have a Survival protected by it, but this deck is incredibly mana intensive, especially with Survival down.

[XiaN]

Funny fact : I never had problems with taking a land back My deck ran good, when it hits 3-4 lands and the daze drawback never hurts on that land count. But yeah well ... daze didn't hit anything either

Here is the list. I'm going to test it on a bigger ( 100 people up ) tournament next weekend. We'll see how it works out.

Creature [21]

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Rhox War Monk
2 Rafiq of the Many

1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Wonder
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Eternal Witness

Instant [15]

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
3 Bant Charm

Artifact [2]

2 Umezawa's Jitte

Enchantment [4]

4 Survival of the Fittest

Land [18]

4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Tundra

1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains

I think 18 lands is very hard. Of cause, you have Hierarch and Vial, but ... duh ... i don't know

[elgoff]

With 18 lands the deck runs pretty good.

There's only 2 or 3 decks that gonna hurt you for having that many lands.

For exemple Canadian Thresh with Wasteland on your duals and Stifle your fetches, Merfolks with the same spells but this is not our real problem with the 'Folks... Eva-MBC-Dead Guy and the like with Discard effect, Wasteland and Sinkhole will attempt to ruin you. Also White Stacks that gonna choke your ressources with Wasteland, Sphere, 'Geddon... That pretty much it about decks that hurt the mana base! That's why I prefer to have a couple of basic land in the deck, there's random dude playing those deck everywhere.

[Black Mass]

Never thought I'd say it, but vial pleases me in many ways.
It keeps tempo going and can do neat combat tricks. I love it. I only play three though. 4 seems like overkill and I'd hate to draw it a lot late game.

[XiaN]

After a talk with a friend yesterday we came up with the following list :

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Rhox War Monk
2 Rafiq of the Many

1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Wonder

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Counterbalance

3 AEther Vial
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Land [19]

4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
2 Tundra

1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains

Or you can cut the vials and add another top and Vendillion Cliques.

The problem i have with this list is ... its very proactive, but i like the top in here. With all your shuffle stuff ( 8 Fetchies, 4 Survival ) you will have a decent quality output of threads. And of cause we have nearly the perfect curve for CB

[Waikiki]

imo CB doesn't go together with sotf. These 2 engines require alot of mana and then your stuck with wanting to do too many things.

[Goblin Snowman]

imo CB doesn't go together with sotf. These 2 engines require alot of mana and then your stuck with wanting to do too many things.

I would agree here. Also, it's rather hard to cast Counterbalance reliably without changing the manabase around, and dropping some key green sources.

[HPB_Eggo]

This is, at the moment, my favorite competitive deck in the format. I could use some help with my list, though, as I'm having trouble fitting certain cards in...

Main
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Tropical Island
3x Savannah
3x Forest

4x Noble Hierarch
3x Tarmogoyf
3x Spellstutter Sprite
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Rhox War Monk
2x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Rafiq of the Many
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob

4x Survival of the Fittest
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Aether Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares

Side
4x Tormod's Crypt
3x Meddling Mage
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Eternal Witness
2x Krosan Grip
1x Genesis
1x Wonder

I really like my list. The main problem is trying to fit in cards that I think would go really well, because it is very difficult to cut anything. Specifically, I am continually rotating out certain cards in an attempt to fit Ponder and Quirion Ranger, both of which work very well in the deck. Any ideas as to what could/should be cut, or just ideas in general, would be very appreciated.