I'd run all Sensei's, Tops and then if you have open slots, fill in with Ponder. Honestly, Ponder isn't any better than Top when you are running a D-Day in the MD and 2 in the Board; in fact, it really puts you at a disadvantage due to the fact that it's a card good against only what you are already good against, i.e. aggro and etc like what you played against in the tourney. It makes no sense to run 3x D-Days and only 2x Top. Blue Cantrip piles are significantly more difficult to pull off as LED isn't an option prior to cantripping into your 5 card stack.
That's my opinion.
Pce,
--DC
Schadenfreude is the most genuine kind of joy, since it doesn't include even a drop of envy.Why can't we just admit it?
Exactly what I was thinking, going down to 3x Top will substantially weaken DD, but my thought process was it might speed the deck up a little with less Top and more Ponder, but I might be trying to solve problems that aren't there. In just regular ANT without DD I really like 3x Top and 2x Ponder but .. didn't run DD, and in the hopes of making the aggro matchups even better it would weaken the blue matchups.
@FredMaster: I have played Mox Diamond in TES Hybrids with 13 lands and really didn't like it, but with 15 that is a different story. Do you think Mox Diamond or a 3rd Chrome Mox would be better? Cause in the opening hand Chrome Mox can always be used and Mox Diamond seems a little situational.
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
I'd go with the Mox Diamond (you might have guessed it) because I think there are less situations in which you are willing to sacrifice a spell than those in which you find yourself with a "useless" land in hand.Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
On a minor note Mox Diamond can be better with AN, if you don't flip that much cards (very rare).
I have a general question about the gameplay of magic . no one i know is acually 100% certain on the answer. Here is the 1st part. Say I play an an AdN and in response to my own AdN i play an Angel's Grace. Can the AdN be countered by my opponent? if that answer is no it cant be countered, Say now my opponent has a Counterbalance in play and happens to have a 1 mana CC Spell on top. If the Counterbalance counters my Angels Grace and he still has the mana up to play a counterspell on my AdN, Can he or has his chance for priority been taken by my Angels Grace...?
My assumption is that once the Angels Grace resolves priorty then passes to my opponent, and he or she at that time can counter my AdN. But if someone could confirm it would be much appreciated. Thanks Enigma for responding but as you said i want someone to confirm...
Once Angel's Grace resolves, it is no longer on the stack. At this time, since there is no longer a split second card on the stack, your opponent can counter AdN.
I went 6-1 in a tournament with 78 attendants, becoming 2nd.
I hardly had any bad matchups all day, the deck did a good job though.
First of all the 75:
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [B] Tundra
1 [B] Scrubland
2 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Tropical Island
1 [B] Island
// Spells
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [TE] Meditate
1 [WL] Doomsday
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
2 [M10] Silence
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [B] Dark Ritual
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [TO] Cabal Ritual
2 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [WL] Doomsday
SB: 2 [M10] Silence
SB: 1 [TO] Cabal Ritual
SB: 1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [SH] Mox Diamond
SB: 2 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [B] Plains
SB: 1 [AQ] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
The matchups I won't add any comments to were:
2x Zoo/Sligh
1x Affinity
1x BG (Aggro?)Rock
I also won against Solidarity (8 Chants ftw, in game 2 he wins against 3 of em -.-) and Progenitus Threshhold due to the lack of Counterbalances in his hand. My loss was against Merfolk, because I'm apparently not able to win against Merfolk with any deck.
My opponents always go berserk, after they've showed me some of their mana denial and disruption package. I hate it...
Props:
- Deck
- Team L.A.
- Lack of Sleep and Doomsday Piles
Slops:
- Lack of Sleep and Doomsday Piles
- long way there/home
- Price Payout (three wb nonblue Duals for the winner??)
- throwing away one game against Affinity (without Hate), due to inattention
Last edited by FredMaster; 08-24-2009 at 01:54 PM.
That has to be Dülmen, right?
First off, I'm playing your maindeck with -1 Tundra, -1 Tropical, -1 Krosan Grip, -1 IT, -1 Cabal Ritual, +1 Swamp, +1 Wipe Away, +3 Ponder. My SB is a bit different:
SB: 2 [M10] Silence
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [U] Tropical Island
SB: 1 [UL] Rebuild
SB: 1 [PS] Rushing River
I got some questions:
- Why no Ponder? Only 8 draw spells aren't great with 1+2 Doomsdays in the deck, and also with the cabal rituals.
- Why 2 Slaughter pact? isn't 1 + Bounce spells enough? You can also mystical for it, play it, and put it again in a Doomsday stack.
- Why 3 Doomsday, but no Helm+Grapeshot? It's indeed a solution against almost every hate bear and if Tendrils gets exiled.
- I did never test Extirpate in the 8 chant versions, how is it? what are siding it against?
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
Well, it's about time this deck hit DTW status. I have a question about the price of this deck as I was interested in making it at some point.
Depends on what you already got.
Duals and fetches aside, the really costy part of the deck are Chants (10€) and LEDs (15€). The rest is below 5 Euros a piece.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
Correct.
I never liked the card in this still fairly tempo-oriented Deck (that's the reason why I posted it in the ANT-thread and not in the one for Fetchland Tendrils). I often had the problem that I held a too slow hand with a bunch of cantrips. If I'm sideboarding in my 2nd and 3rd copy of DD, I'll have a reasonable amount of time more to build I my comboturn, and therefore finding my drawspell/Top. Ponder always felt almost as weak as Chrome Mox to me or Cabal Ritual.
Also:
The sideboard was more or less thrown together, at least looking at the last 2-3 slots.
The last time I saw a Meddling Mage was ages ago and cards like Gaddock Teeg can just be handled by Slaughter Pact much easier.
That's mainly the reason (as I claimed a few posts earlier) why the alternate combo is not the way to go for me anymore.
Having my Tendrils exiled has actually never happened to me, since Extirpate is an (luckily) underplayed card and Leyline of the Void/Relic + Discard is something you will rarely find. Plus you will not often be holding a Tendrils in your hand or at least you will be trying to get rid of it by Brainstorm+shuffle effect or the like.
Therefore it's rather unlikely that they will have you discard it and then remove it as well.
Well you know, it's not really that much of a difference since you will have your Chant forced/counterspelled even more often than you have the chance to actually pick a Force with your Duress (Brainstorm).
I've been siding it in against Solidarity, Merfolk, Treshhold and the like. Almost any deck with a Force should be right. You obviously don't side it in if there are more important things, like more Chants or Krosan Grips.
The other kind of Archetype I side it in against is the one that disrupts you with either Manadenial or Discardspells (Eva Green/Dead Ale/etc.).
I will mark the slots in my sideboard that I am unsure about (even if it's just the number).
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [WL] Doomsday
SB: 2 [M10] Silence
SB: 1 [TO] Cabal Ritual
SB: 1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [SH] Mox Diamond
SB: 2 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Plains
SB: 1 [AQ] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
Oh and Chrome Mox should also be above 5 Euros, Green One.
You're right about Mox!
What's your plan against CB decks? I usually go with -2 Mox, -1 Cabal Ritual, -3 Ponder, -1 Wipe Away, +2 Tropical, +3 K.Grip +2 Silence. I'm unsure about the Silences and if keeping AN or not post SB: the cmc of the deck is way higher, and I don't have moxes anymore.
Against the other decks the plan is pretty simple: if they're playing counters then side silence, if not then take aout the silences and chants and bring some serious number of bounce.
I played for some time with the SB plains too, but found myself wanting it only if I'm playing Serenity in the SB.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
I'd board roughly this:
-2 Chrome Mox
-1 Ad Nauseam
-1 Infernal Tutor
-1 Cabal Ritual
-1 Lotus Petal
+1 Doomsday
+2 Krosan Grip
+2 Silence
+1 Extirpate
Boarding out Moxes and keeping in AN is not the way to go. In case you board out more tempo like Cabal Ritual or slowing yourself down with more lands, AN becomes more and more useless.
Why do you board it in favor of -2 Cabak Ritual?
Additional Cabal Rituals let you pursue the Infernal Tutor->IGG plan easier than Lotus Petal. Given that they're both pretty bad postboard against CB, the one that helps one of your two win conditions is likely the better choice. I'd also board in the Plains against CB.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I find many people boarding Relic of Progenitus when there's nothing better, I don't believe Cabal Ritual becomes better post SB, and even more better than Lotus Petal, that it's an effective Green source and 3rd mana for K.Grip, and helps against Daze.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
hey everyone...I am new to this deck and had a few questions:
1. for those who use doomsday, what do you typically doomsday for
2. what is the iggy plan?
3. how do you usually win out?
What's the matchup ratio vs CounterTop? 40/60? 30/70? (In CounterTops favor)
@FredMaster: Good job man, glad to see the Hybrid DDFT lists putting up results :) Can we get a short tournament report about a few individual matches or get a little detail about what happened with Merfolk?
@lilrikki2000: Please read the thread, I am not sure how many times I have actually described to people what the IGG loop is. In short: LED + LED + IT + IGG is a loop that usually generates enough storm to win, nowadays we only have 1 IGG so you have to play some shit beforehand to reach lethal storm.
If you do not know what the IGG loop is I would strongly suggest you NOT play Doomsday. Go onto deckcheck.net and look at the Spanish ANT lists that win by casting Ad Nauseam, and that alone, that would be a good place to start if you want to learn combo. Doomsday is ridiculously hard to get the hang of playing and even worse while playing people when the opponent is pressuring you to hurry up, I take my time because ... fuck them, but still, it is very difficult, especially if you don't play combo.
@drago: Give us a list instead of saying "how does this deck do against .....". This is not productive, there are numerous different builds for ANT so simply post a list you like or play around with on MWS and we will tell you how it will do or what you should to do improve the matchup.
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
I don't have a specific list and wasn't aware if variations would make a difference in the matchup. I was simply trying to get an idea of how favorable/unfavorable CounterTop matchups are.
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