Allies is kinda like Mercenary or Rebel Cards that seems to be spilling into all colors.Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
But yeah, this card is awful in Merfolk, but in a Standard Allies deck it might be ok (I'll stop here because it's speculation and this is Merfolk, not Allies).
At this point, I'm hoping that Merfolk is still viable after Zendikar. We just need cards that are undeniably good. I can't imagine replacing anything in this deck right now though. Well, except the last 4 slots.
I dunno, with goblins getting the big boost plus enemy fetchlands making wasteland less than stellar now I think things need some reworking to say the least.
The question becomes does stifle become any more powerful now because of enemy fetches. The answer, I believe, is no. People won't run more fetches now, they'll just run ones that can fetch them basics in both of their colors.
My thought is that Wasteland will continue to be a stellar card, so I think you're going into hyperbole here by a little bit.
On the other hand, the fear of Goblins becoming a bigger part of the meta-game is real, and I think we have reason for it. Warren Instigator himself is not too terrible for us, but if he means that a bunch of people start playing Goblins, or pick it back up again, then admittedly that's veeery bad for us Merfolk players.
I agree with you that Stifle doesn't really gain any foreseeable power though, since the same reasons not to run fetch-lands in the first place still apply. They are just going to offer decks that do benefit from fetches more flexibility as far as including a basic land to match their splash colors.
Where your Wasteland argument fails, however, is that there are also still the same reasons not to run basics in the first place. So it's a trade-off for any deck that does pack one or two extra basics because of the enemy fetches, because they are still sacrificing a small amount of flexibility and having to mulligan a few more hands away in order to run that extra off-color basic.
So basically, the question is: how many people are going to start playing Goblins now?
Last edited by DukeDemonKn1ght; 09-14-2009 at 08:24 PM.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
I hate to admit it but the more i read merfs threads the more i believe its really just a meta deck and shouldn't be in the decks to beat section, maybe its place is in the established decks.
I hope merfs would have something new to play with in zendikar.
crossing fingers..
As for the rise of gobs, yeah im pretty sure alot of eternal players or standard players that wants to try there hand on the format would pick gobs as a starting deck...
Would we see a rebirth of the angelstompy ?
....
maybe or maybe not....
I swear, the Goblins deck is like a sleeping giant, just waiting for some hapless Merfolk player to awaken it.
I'm curious as to how many Merfolk players have tried tinkering with Counter-Top combo alongside Stifle/Wasteland.
If you honestly think that's how it should go, Countertop should probably be in the Established Decks forum. It's only good against decks with low mana curves. And while we're at it, Tempo Thresh should go, too. It's only really good when other people are playing fetches and non-basics.I hate to admit it but the more i read merfs threads the more i believe its really just a meta deck and shouldn't be in the decks to beat section, maybe its place is in the established decks.
I hope the sarcasm was duly noted. Merfolk is a good deck, and it belongs in DTB, maybe even if Goblins becomes more popular. It will adapt, it may even end up splashing a color in most builds, but it will still be a good deck.
Has anyone tried Steely Resolve in the sideboard of lists splashing green? ...I kinda forgot that card existed, but it seems better than Absolute Law in the white splash.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Steely Resolve does address quite a few problems that the deck faces. Further more, in a green splash we need not to worry too much about Goblins since our Goyfs outsize all of their critters (minus an attacking Pile Driver). Resolve this card with Pithing Needle and our 'Folks become quite unstoppable.
To Needle what? Goblins share Vial and Waste with us. A lot of lists dropped Port. That leaves the possibility of Fanatic, Sharpshooter, SGC in more common lists to Needle. I don't follow.
As a long-time Angel Stompy player, let me say that towards the end of the glory days of AS, it basically stopped beating goblins regularly. Sure, you could go 50/50, but so can most decks. Goblins have since then gotten numerous good cards. Angel Stompy, not so much. White (mono) creatures have gotten a major short end of the stick recently.
If AS returns, my guess is that it'll splash green, and run cards other than Angel. Probably some goyfage as well as Knight of the Reliquary. The blue splash is really no longer valid. The red splash, with enemy fetches now, deserves some exploring.
But alas, this is a merfolk thread :-P.
[QUOTE=_erbs_;381457]I hate to admit it but the more i read merfs threads the more i believe its really just a meta deck and shouldn't be in the decks to beat section, maybe its place is in the established decks.QUOTE]
DTB status is earned by performance. In the months on May, June, and July, Merfolk had the third most top eights of all decks in the format (behind only CounterTop and Thresh). Even if it is somewhat of a meta-deck, most metas play a lot of blue. As long as this is the case, Merfolk is likely to remain a deck to beat.
Against decks like zoo their only out to this would be Quasali Pridemage and Grip. Keeping them off their green mana source, while having needle naming pridemage would tip the MU greatly in our favor. Furthermore, S. Resolve + Needle on EE vs Landstill (UWx) stops them in their tracks as they have no way of dealing with our 'Folk other than Wrath, Humility, Disk. The only bomb we have to stop from resolving would be Wrath. Even then, Stifle + Waste + Daze + Cursecatcher will make reaching 4 mana quite difficult.
Goblins just got another potential bomb. Goblin Bushwacker. Does anyone else find it rather annoying that they print 2 pretty stellar goblins, yet give us a lord that's pretty close to strictly worse than other lords and some Merfolk that costs 5...?
The trick with this deck is to avoid decks that are more or less dangerous for you.
;)
Team Legal Actions.
So, have we all agreed that Steely Resolve would be good in a green splash then? Can I go ahead and give myself a cookie?
Seriously, I'm really not so sure it is any better than Absolute Law though... I mean, shroud for the whole team really helps some match-ups, but I suspect it might not actually help our "problem match-ups" as much as pro-red for the entire team.
Also, there's this inherent problem: You're splashing green if you play Steely Resolve, which means you're pretty much inherently using 4 Tarmogoyfs main-deck. Steely Resolve would do absolutely nothing to prevent him from eating spot removal (unless you find yourself in the awkward position of naming "Lhurgoyf" rather than "Merfolk" as your creature type). In fact, it would make Goyf automatically eat whatever spot removal they played. So this basically keeps the Merfs safe, but at the price of putting an even bigger target on Goofy's forehead... Hm.
I guess my question is, would Steely Resolve actually help out a fair number of our aggro match-ups, despite the fact that it does way less against Goblins than Absolute Law? I mean, it literally does next to nothing against most Goblins lists, and I'm convinced Gobbos is our worst match-up right now.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Yesterday evening I took Mono U Merfolk to a medium sized tourney @ Face à Face (25 people with 3 rounds of swiss, no T8), going 3-0-0 and finishing 2nd.
BR Vial Goblins (1st), Merfolk Mono U (2nd), D&T with green splash (3rd)
Meta Breakdown:
4x Merfolk
3x Landstill
2x UGW Fish
1x Ultimate Walker
1x Mono U Control
1x Bant Survival
1x Canadian Thresh
1x BR Goblins
1x Death & Taxes with Green Splash
1x BGW Rock
1x Dragon Stompy
1x Ichorid
1x 9-Land Stompy-esque Aggro
1x The Cure
1x JankyElvesWithWellwisherNoPriest.dec
1x UGW Dreadstill
3x (I can't remember)
This is what I sleeved up:
4x Cursecatcher
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Merrow Reejerey
2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4x Aether Vial
4x Standstill
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
3x Stifle
3x Spell Snare
1x Rushing River
1x Echoing Truth
4x Wasteland
3x Mutavault
4x Polluted Delta
7x Island
SB:
4x Submerge
4x Hydroblast
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Pithing Needle
2x Back to Basics
Round 1: Yan Lampron with Ultimate Walker.
G1
I remember beating him with Cursecatcher, stifling a fetch, resolving a standstill, finding a Mutavault (which bought his life down quickly) and wasting a Factory. He eventually breaks the standstill in response to my attack phase with a Helix targeting the changeling manland and STP for my Catcher. I force through an Aether Vial. During the next few turns he finds 2 more Factories and proceeds to hit me for and brings me down to 13 while he's at 5. I vial in Kira, Great Glass-Spinner EOT, and win from there.
SB:
Out:-4 Standstill, -1 Spell Snare, -1 Island
In: +2 B2B, +2 Relic of P., +2 Pithing Needle
G2
Not much I can do here. Force for all my Stifles on Ancestral Visions and has removal for every single 'Folk I play + EE for Kira. Reoccuring factories via Crucible go all the way.
G3
I chip away at his life points with a Cursecatcher. I bait a counter (Forbid) with an Aether Vial, then resolve B2B, preventing him from untapping 3 of his 6 non-basics. We play draw go for a bit, while Cursecatcher pokes him once a turn. He taps out and drops an Elspeth for which I have no Daze. I proceed to top deck a Daze next turn and play a Vial. I take a total of 8 dmg from the soldier token. He later plays EE @ 1 with his only basic land (plain). I let it resolve so I could back-up the EOT Rushing River (with kicker) targeting the plainswalker and EE. EOT vial in Kira and win from there.
Round 2: Etienne (aTn on TheSource) with Canadian Thresh
G1
I win the roll and keep a hand that is counter heavy (2x Spell Snare, Daze, Polluted Delta, Stifle, Cursecatcher, Island) I stifle his T1 fetch, waste his volcanic beat him down with my Cursecatcher. I end up drawing no threats and he manages to stabilize after dropping a threshed Mongoose. A goyf (which managed to get through 2 Spell Snares) and the Goose finish me off.
SB:
Out: -1 Spell Snare, -1 Daze, -1 Echoing Truth, -1 Rushing River, -1 Standstill, -1 Silvergill Adept, -1 Cursecatcher, -1 Aether Vial
In: +3 Submerge, +3 Relic of Progenitus, +2 B2B
G2
Stifle + Waste keep him off his R source. Resolve Relic and Snare a Goyf. I safely resolve a B2B with him tapped out. He can't find a Volcanic Island for Pyroblast. I win a few turns later.
G3
He plays a Goose on his first turn. I on the other hand start with Aether Vial, which resolves.I proceed to waste his volcanic. I Daze his Goyf T6 forcing him to tap out. I play B2B. He fetchs, I stifle. I play Relic of P., then Submerge his Goyf a few turns later. His Mongoose is no longer a threat and I win shortly after on the back of Kira.
Round 3: Philip (I think) with Mono U Merfolk
G1
We both resolve a T1 vial. I completely blow him out of the water with my threat heavy hand (Catcher, Reejerey, LoA, Mutavault, Delta, FoW, Adept).
SB:
Out: -3 Stifle
In: +2 Pithing Needle, +1 Relic of P. (at least it cantrips)
G2
He mulls to 5, no Islands. He plays a Mutavault and leads with a T1 Vial, which I force. I play Cursecatcher, followed by an Adept and a few turns later a LoA. He concedes.
The list I played that day was unconventional. The deck is geared to beat control, which is one of the main archetype played over here. Although we do get the occasional goblin and zoo players, they are kept at bay due to control being so dominant over here. Counterbalance is almost non existant.
Congratulations on your finish. Pretty weird of a 25 people tournament to only have 3 rounds, yeah, that way you win everything and still end up second. That's just weird.
Did you run enough Merfolk for Silvergill Adept? Also, if you chose to run fetches, why no Brainstorm?
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Here in Montreal there are about 2 stores (Valet du Coeur and Face a Face) which offer weekly (Tuesday and Thursday) sanctioned Legacy tournaments . Since the stores close early (9pm), the tournaments are quite short (time wise) considering that they start at 6pm.
(I came second due to Tie-Breakers. We were 3 ppl at the end of round 3 with a 3-0-0 record)
Throughout my MU I did not once, have to hardcast an Adept. He always came into play via vial. The list I played was tweaked on the spot and was hardly play tested. In consequence, I wouldn't be able to tell you if my Merfolk ratio would affect Adept without further testing. If we look at older Mono U list's pre-M10, most of them ran only 16-18 Merfolk and still managed to place well.
Now that I think about it, Brainstorm would have been a great substitute for Silvergill Adept. It didn't cross my mind to include them in the deck. The fact that I run Kira MD would make up for the lack of threats, since I can passively protect the few I have.
Independent of the discussion about including / excluding Brainstorm I would like to point out that Brainstorm instead of Silvergill Adept is not a good idea. In my opinion, Silvergill Adept is the best Merfolk you play next to Lord of Atlantis. That one card he gives is great and he often beats very hard. I would always play 4.
Silvergill Adept is the best Merfolk, as long as you play enough Merfolk. Trust me, as soon as you have to payfor Silvergill Adept, he isn't that glorious all of a sudden.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
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