I'll test it as a 1-of, replacing the Fact or Fiction that I was trying already. I don't care about the UUU in the cost because I almost always have that down by the time I'd be casting it anyway. Against the decks that worry me the most it's not speed that bothers me it's the ability to take overwhelming control of the game with threats that I only have a limited number of ways to counter and no way to remove after the fact, like Elspeth.Originally Posted by pippo84
Cryptic Command actually deals with Elspeth in 3 different ways: as a 4cc I can flip with Counterbalance, as a hard counter that says no, and as bounce for when she's already landed and I need to get her off the board. That's better than Fact or Fiction which only serves the first purpose usually.
What I cut to put Fact or Fiction in was the 4th Standstill. I'm not regretting that choice, just not happy with the overall effectiveness of Fact or Fiction.
In my UGR list the way I deal with planeswalkers is counters if I can and if they land I stick a Pithing Needle on them poast board.
Cryptic Command on the other way seems very versitile and solid so give it a try!
Dreadstill top 8'd the SCG Charlotte 5k.
Team Hammafist
Good Job! What's the list played, UR or UGR or some other splash?
I'm not sure.
Edit:Ur Dreadstill
Last edited by J.V.; 09-13-2009 at 08:57 PM.
Team Hammafist
Some kind of report from my testings yesterday: As i said after my 4:3 "success" i had the feeling of changing some stuff of my mainboard and tried some games on apprentice (yes i dont usw mws). I wanted to test out some other/more draw and tested with following cards:
thirst for knowledge
+1 trinket mage (set to 3)
3/+1 Standstill
Ponder
Fact or Fiction
I only tested 2-3 games (till 2 wins for one side each game) against Baseruption, UGW Countertop, Landstill, Elves and Survival.
I think a friend was right by recognizing that the Dreadstill builds don't run enough or even solid CC3 spells so i wanted to try the thirsts for knowledge but as i only could discard 2 cards or a second divining top for it i feld to risky with it, same for fact or fiction as it was just to expensive.
Noticed that Standstill isn't worse even if i wanted to cut it yesterday after the tournament i tried out if theres a difference between playing 3 or 4, as we can't play them to many times without playing full sets of factory/wastelands i think 3 is still the correct choice, i had many situation i only could pitch the standstill into force of will cause other like the normal Landstill builds where you draw from one standstill into another we want to play spells 80% of the games where a standstill triggered for us. I think after the results from yesterday i feel like 4 top 4 brainstorm 3 standstill is the right way to dig through the library.
I also tested some other changes as i wanted to play the lightning bolts and some other removal on the mainboard, i also got addicted to trickbind as i never really needed it before i found out that focusing on drawing the trickbind is the save way to get the dreadnought on the table as my opponents always try to play around my stifle but never counter the nought.
After i played 2-4 Lightning bolts in the maindeck i really loved them as they also do very good against Baseruption/Countertop decks but i found no card that could be cut for a playset of the bolts (either in the sideboard) and most times i boarded them out for Submerges as those are awesome against every matchup i can play them. So i don't agree anymore to the plan of boarding Bolts as 4 slots are to much and every count lower than 4 doesn't really help as 1-2 burn spells are pretty random.
Last change i took on my mainboard where the trinket mages as i said some days before there where situations i could't usw them but about 90% all the time i got better things to play or just dont need the trinkets at all, i never have the problem beeing in a hurry to draw my dreadnoughts and also i had rar situations where trinket on explosives saved my day as it takes around 2-3 turns till the explosives does the job, i also never had to search for the diving tops which keeps me playing trinkets only for the explosives.
After long long time testing last night i came up with following build and i really feel familiar to it:
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trygon Predator
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Trickbind
2 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
4 Senseis divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
Lands
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
3 Wasteland
3 Mishras Factory
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
Sideboard
4 Submerge
1 engineered explosives
3 pyroblast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Firespout
2 Threads of disloyality
For the Sideboard there where a few changes i took just in case of the matchups on the tournament i had and saw on the sidetables, for submerges i never wanna play less than 4 anymore, as every deck on legacy which runs green (belcher is dead) runs it for creatures like Zoo,Baseruption,Survival,ITF,Team America etc i almost thought of playing 1-2 on the mainboard at all ^^
The Ancient Grudge, Explosives and Grip on the board performed very good beside the Predator i almost play on the mainboard now cause only boarding grips was to simple as the opponent expects grips he will try to play around them as far as possible, but by playing predator,explosives,grudge and a grip i have a strong mix along to find solutions.
The threads of disloyality are placed for the control magic/sower i also tested but in most cases i wanted to steal quick and mostly its tarmogoyf,confidant some time the opposing dreadnought. I also would like to play the threads in the mainboard as the give me +2 CC3 spells and are quiet good on most matchups.
The Trygon Predators where as much amazing that i want to play them on the mainboard (the 2 trinket slots) as Predator wrecks the Baseruption/Countertop matchup also it removes more than one Artifact/Enchantment normally and as i know how good it is i won't play it randomly as it will catch counter/spot removal. I also like it as 2/3 flying beeing able to beat, thats why i cut 1 factory for the 4th wasteland.
As i never won against dredge (without having look 1-2 games) and didn't see much Loam decks the last tournaments i don't play graveyard removal anymore, i hope that Loam is a winable without the 2 slots of graveyard hate i had before just by locking loam with the counterbalance, if its not i wouldn't win with crypts/relics anyway.
So, i played at the Milano 285 man Legacy event with UR Dreadstill and ended 7:2 being 12. and taking 4 Bayous home (was unlucky in round 8 with 3 mishra's loosing vs. 1 spellstutter sprite cause of needle on mishra^^)
Perhaps i will post a report soon...
Greetz, Marius
What was the final build you played? I ordered 3 Blood moon today and wanted to know how good they are on the U/R list if we play wastes+factories.
Congratz Marius! Hope you'll post a report soon..
So the build was:
4x flooded strand
2x polluted delta
4x mishra's factory
3x wasteland
5x island
3x volcanic island
//Creatures:
4x phyrexian dreadnought
3x trinket mage
//Other spells (blue):
4x brainstorm
4x stifle
2x trickbind
4x daze
4x standstill
4x force of will
3x counterbalance
3x spell snare
//Other artifacts:
2x sensei's divining top
1x engineered explosives
1x crucible of worlds
//SB:
2x blue elemental blast
3x red elemental blast
3x lightning bolt
2x pyroclasm
2x blood moon
1x engineered explosives
2x relic of progenitus
Having one rating-bye i did not have to play round 1.
Round 2: 5C-Zoo
My Opponent wins the Dice but did mulligan. He starts with Taiga Nacatl, Round 2 Goyf, which i could spellsnare but since i have Nought, Stifle Spell Snare and Force (no other blue card but only lands) in my hand, i let it resolve and play turn 2 Nought, Force-protected. My opponents puts another land into play and plays tribal flames, then scoops.
Game 2 he again has fast creatures before and my blind counterbalance does not hit a single time. I can handle all his creatures via bolts / blasts / spellsnare for goyf but die in round 9 or 10, not having found a trinket mage, nought OR top...
So i'm on the play in game 3, being able to bolt his 1. creature and playing a counterbalance and a standstill in the round after, which my opponents krosan grips (lol^^). Since he has only 3 duals in play and no creatures, blood moon wins. He discards 6 times having played 2 bolts that put me on 11 and then dies to my Nought.
=> 2:0
Round 3: Elfball
I win the dice but had to mulligan. My hand contained 4 lands (1mishra, 2blue, 1wasteland), Force and explosives but i did not want to mulligan again.
After all, the hand turned out to be great, as my opponent plays 1. turn Fyndhorn elves. I draw a Daze, say go and he puts his whole hand into play (5 elves + a Glimpse, that i counter). After Explosives kills 5 elves the game is over quite soon.
Game 2 he plays 1. round needle on trinket mage (wtf?) and says go. I play land, go, he answers with LLanowar elves, go. Eot i bolt them and put a Standstill over it. He has no other land drop and puts anoter Llanowar into play which i bolt again with the card fount in standstill. Counterbalance and turn 6 or 7 nought then wins that game.
=> 3:0
Round 4: UGR Faeries
I manage to get a blind counterbalance into play turn 3 without any creatures from my opponent but it does again not hit a single turn. In round 5 i play Nought, which he answers with a Spellstutter. I spell snare it but he has 1 more Sprite... I then loose the game to theese 2 Sprites and a Ninja of the deep hours. Dreadnought /stifle is to late, since i get it online at 2 live but he has 2 beaters.
Game 2 we have a Stifle / Wasteland War which leaves him with 3 Mishras and me with 3 blue / blue-red lands and a trinket mage in play. I find the Blood Moon and simply win.
Game 3 i'm terribly screwed and do not manage to get a red mana into play while he steals my trinket mage with a sower of temptation. I play counterbalance just to take his force from his hand and force his stifle on my finally drawn fetchland. Bad for me, that he has another stifle and so i die to Sower, my own trinket mage, a Spellstutter Sprite and a Mutavault having 2 Red Blasts, 2 Bolts and a Blood Moon in my hand...
=> 3:1
Round 5: Goblins
Game 1 i only see mountain and a wasteland from my opponent, then he scoops to a fast Dreadnought. Since theese 2 cards are enough for me to know he plays goblins, i board in bolts / blue blasts / pyroclasms but no blood moons, not having seen any non-red mana.
Game 2 he has a lackey which i cant handle but he brings only warchiefs / a shusher. I bolt the warchief since he has only 1 card in hand. in my 3. turn i waste his plateau, he floats white. 2. main Dreadnought ends the game.
=> 4:1
Round 6: RG Survival
Game 1 i spellsnare a survival, have a fast Standstill and my opponent looses then fast to a Nought, having only crappy creatures like birds / Rofellos.
Game 2 he gets his survival online while i have Counterbalance + top in play. He then survivals for a shusher and plays goblin welder. I play stifle+nought seeing 1 inkwell leviathan in his grave. But eot he survivals again and gets a platinum angel which i cant handle and so i loose this game.
Game 3 i win over a counterbalance keeping cc3 and 1 on it. It counters a Choke and a Krosan Grip while i manage not to let a survival enter the game. While my opponent is still on 4 Lands in round 10 or so, my finally drawn Nought ends the game.
=> 5:1
Round 7: Tempo-Threshold
Game 1 i keep hand with: Volcanic, Mishra, Nought, Stifle, Daze, Force, Daze. I play the Volcanic, he wastes, so i have to use the stifle. He forces my Stifle, i daze. Then i play toe volcanic again and he has another wasteland. After 3 round i have 1 blue and a mishra in play while he has 1 tropical and a mungo. But my opponent finds land after land and manages to get a goyf into play while i trade the factory for his mungo. Having still the nought and a trickbind in play i have 3 rounds to draw a land, which i do not, so i loose.
Game 2 i have a early relic that keeps his mungo on 1/1. Round 4 or so i play a crucible (did not board blood moons cause i saw a basic forest game 1) and shredder his manabase, while mungo is still 1/1 and Goyf 0/1 cause i sacced relic. In round 12 or so i have standstill, crucible + wasteland, counterbalance + top in play and i'm on 4 but my opponent has no lands in play. So i decide to break my own Standstill and play Nought with double stifle and force-backup. This is enough for this game and i win.
Game 3 he has a mungo and plays goyf which i spellsnare. I decided to board the blood moons in now and this wins in round 5, cause trinket mage on relic is enough for the mungo and a 2. goyf, that my opponent got into play. He scoops after i play a 2. trinket mage, bringing explosives while he has 6 "mountains" in play.
=> 6:1
Round 8: UBR Faeries:
If i had won this match now, i would have entered top8 since i had great oppscore and could draw in round 9.
But game 1, my opponent hast a ridiculous draw, bringing a tombstalker round 4 while i play nought round 5. He plays terminate on it (lol), i have Force for it but his last 2 cards are force+pitchcard...
Game 2 i draw ONLY lands and a single spellstutter sprite kills me while having quadrupel Mishra's Factory (1 got wasted) in play that are needled -.-
=> 6:2
Round 9: Ichorid:
I win the dice, have island go. My opponent plays City of Brass, go. Eot i play Brainstorm, find the nought to my stifle and play it round 2. Instantly my opponent scoops but i saw a dredger that fell off his hand. Game 2 it is again a massacre, i have a fast relic + a red blast for a maybe-breakthrough and the Nought goes all the way home in Rounc 5.
=> 7:2
As i said before, i was 12. at the end and took a playset Bayous home to Germany.
Greetz,
Marius Hausmann
Congratz again Marius for the finish, the UR list seems very solid.
Nice report, just a question now..
Don't you miss the fourth Counterbalance and the third Top?
Or at least the third top, it seemed to me from your report that you tried several blind flips..
The Blood Moon seems really solid, I would love to test it, but I'm a bit reluctant to swap from UGR to UR, but probably I'll give it a try..
Never missed the 4. CB but the 3. top would have been useful sometimes, yes
Blood Moon just cripples so many decks at this point, and since it is a sideboard card it is hard for it to hurt you.
@Wasteland - How did the crucible feel to you in the deck? I added one to make the deck a little bit more control-ish and I love it when it shows up most of the time but I have a hard time finding it when I really want it. I've been trying to figure out whether it is too random to be really good and I should either double-down on it or take it out. I do like seeing it in my hand most of the time when I draw it though.
so i just got back from the scg legacy 5k in north carolina i unfortunaly only went X and 2 :( so i ended up 21 dammit i had game vs the top 8 but congrats to all who made it.see you all in philly rodney you had better be at that one i missed not being able to play you.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=29838
Here yo have the Dreadstill list that top8'ed at Charlotte. I assume "Engineered Plague" means "Engineered Explosives". How do you see the 22-land setup with Seat of the Synod and Academy Ruins?
And the random Mystical Tutor... I don't know.
The only thing I liked but I never found room for was Academy Ruins.
We tried to copy the Source, but then we realized we're spanish
If my post results dumb or offensive, it's probably just me miserably failing at being ironic in a foreign language
Mystical tutor is synergistic with counterbalance, it creates card quality but card disadvantage. Dunno, never tried it.
I tried Academy Ruins and liked very much, but since I don't want to many non U sources I cut it, but it's quite strong.
Seat of the Synod? Used to get it with Trinket Mage. Wtf? If I play trinket Mage I am most likely to have enought lands/blue sources.
@Wasteland - Congratulations with your 12th place.
Your Ur list seems very manabase estable so your could abuse from stifle + wastes + bloodmoon.So that's why you play 4 daze x 3 spellsnare?And what do you think about the new fetchs which able players to splash basic lands and ruin blood moon plans?
Also do you ever fell a lack of threats or 1 turn answers?
And how do you deal with an enemy CB/Top without KGrips?
Im not sure if they meant it to be engineered plaugue or explosives i wathced the top 8 but he went up against the goyf sligh guy and got demolshed basically hosed by stifle and his seat of synod got blew up it was rather embaressing to watch.
He has no black mana in the deck and thus no way to play Engineered Plague. It had to be Engineered Explosives.
The other thing that makes no sense in that list is the 3x Leyline of the Void in the sidebar. I'm sorry but you cannot put a 3-of in a deck when you have no way to cast it and will have to mull to it to get it in play. Even a 4-of is extremely shaky in that situation but a 3-of is suicide.
yeah the deck he borrowed from a guy i met.i went to go watch him i just saw his decklist for the first time.the leylines look horriable.I Played against ichorid round 5 and beat them with relics and pithing needles..not to mention a very lucky t2 dreadnought.t1 needle t2 nought gg? lol it basically went like that.
oh and the mystical tutor i really dont agree with.and why do a tundra?why not a tropical island that way out of the board you can bring in kgrips.i can understand not wanting to use goyfs i dont use them but still dont use a land and then not have anyreason not to use it other than a ee for 3
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