[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[Wasteland]

Well, i never lost to an enemy counterbalance having the spell snares and the dazes + mana disruption-plan...
For the new fetchlands: Wasteland will get a bit worse while stifles are getting stronger^^

[pippo84]

For the new fetchlands: Wasteland will get a bit worse while stifles are getting stronger^^

Not sure about this. Wasteland will get a bit worse because people will put a few on color basics more, but stifle will stay the same. I don't think people will play more fetchlands, they will play the same amount, the only difference is that they will play the on color ones.

[FoolofaTook]

Not sure about this. Wasteland will get a bit worse because people will put a few on color basics more, but stifle will stay the same. I don't think people will play more fetchlands, they will play the same amount, the only difference is that they will play the on color ones.

I think playing basics or not is kind of independent of the fetchlands at this point in most decks. 3 color decks tend to play basics to cover two of the colors if they have 16-17 colored lands in them. They play basics to cover one color if they have 14-15 colored lands.

Having a U/G fetchland isn't going to make a 3 color Ugr deck put a forest in if they only have 14-15 colored lands in the deck. That would make the chances of getting blue too low and the vulnerability that not having green causes is not worth that sacrifice. If that deck would put a forest in they'd already have put in a couple of wooded foothills to fetch trops, volcanics, and forests. That they haven't done that tells you that the cost of the Forest is too much to support in a deck with that few sources.

The enemy fetches might push people to include an extra land or two to make the manabase really solid in 3 color decks. That would be an interesting change, and you might see some basic forests in those lists.

[pippo84]

I think playing basics or not is kind of independent of the fetchlands at this point in most decks. 3 color decks tend to play basics to cover two of the colors if they have 16-17 colored lands in them. They play basics to cover one color if they have 14-15 colored lands.

Having a U/G fetchland isn't going to make a 3 color Ugr deck put a forest in if they only have 14-15 colored lands in the deck. That would make the chances of getting blue too low and the vulnerability that not having green causes is not worth that sacrifice. If that deck would put a forest in they'd already have put in a couple of wooded foothills to fetch trops, volcanics, and forests. That they haven't done that tells you that the cost of the Forest is too much to support in a deck with that few sources.

The enemy fetches might push people to include an extra land or two to make the manabase really solid in 3 color decks. That would be an interesting change, and you might see some basic forests in those lists.

Great thought. I was actually thinking of adding 1 Basic Forest in my list, but after reading your post I'm not sure of it anymore. Even though I would like 1 Basic Forest, blue is the most important color. I'll try and see what happens with 1 tropical less and 1 forest in it's place. Do you think it will cause problems with the manabase?

[J.V.]

Great thought. I was actually thinking of adding 1 Basic Forest in my list, but after reading your post I'm not sure of it anymore. Even though I would like 1 Basic Forest, blue is the most important color. I'll try and see what happens with 1 tropical less and 1 forest in it's place. Do you think it will cause problems with the manabase?

I've been doing a lot of testing with U/G fetches and basic forest, honestly my conclusion has been that I'm not going to be running one... having your U producing sources lower is worse in more situations, than the number of times having a basic forest is better.

[pippo84]

In what place did you try the forest? Because I agree that if you play 3 wasteland, 4 mishra and a forest you don't have enought blue, but if you cut a mishra for the forest it seems ok to me.
Just my thoughts without testing, so they aren't worth anything. As soon as I'll test I'll let you know my opinion..

[keys]

3 Mishra
3 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Forest

This seems manageable to me.

[pippo84]

3 Mishra
3 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Forest

This seems manageable to me.

I would cut 1 Tropical for the 3rd basic island.

[neckfire]

il be honost i probably will only add the Ur fetch and only if i cant finish getting the regular fetches i need.i have no need to run on color fetches.i will though mix it up some so that extirpate and needle on fetch gets worse.i mean it has never come up but its the same reason why i run pyroblast and reb so they cant mage it.i know its all being situational but should that problom ever arise i will not sit there with a sorry look on my face like oh shit what now.

[pippo84]

il be honost i probably will only add the Ur fetch and only if i cant finish getting the regular fetches i need.i have no need to run on color fetches.i will though mix it up some so that extirpate and needle on fetch gets worse.i mean it has never come up but its the same reason why i run pyroblast and reb so they cant mage it.i know its all being situational but should that problom ever arise i will not sit there with a sorry look on my face like oh shit what now.

A genius! You really made me laugh, but if I won't add different basics (which I'm still not sure), I'll copy your idea and continue playing 6 fetches, just of 4 different types!

[Shimi]

I would cut 1 Tropical for the 3rd basic island.

I'm testing this and find it the best way to splash an basic forest.(3 islands rocks!)

About the Ur build what about playing 3 Volcanic + 1 Mountain which help in merfolk and goblin matchup(because they have alot of mana denial)??

At the weekend i'm going to play an tournament here in São Paulo-Brazil and I hope to bring in some new thoughts.

[J.V.]

I think for the Ur Version I would run the following mana base post Zen:
Lands:21
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
5 Island
1 Mountain

[ForceofWill]

3 Mishra
3 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Forest

This seems manageable to me.

Playing a forest huts more than it helps. You don't need it like thresh because you can still cast dreadnought under a moon unlike threshold. Also you don't run many blue sources because of waste-factory so removing another basic island only leads to more mulligans and wasteland hurting even more than it should.

[FoolofaTook]

I think for the Ur Version I would run the following mana base post Zen:
Lands:21
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
5 Island
1 Mountain

13 blue sources scares me in a deck playing stifle, brainstorm and daze.

[godryk]

Agree. The basic mountain should be in the place of a Mishra. Or be the 22nd land. I like the basic mountan more than the forest. If you fetch a Tropic to get a Goyf in play and it gets resolved, then it doesn't matter if it gets wasted. But against Goblins or Merfolk, getting your Volc wasted can make loose games.

[pippo84]

So most of you suggest not to put any other basic and leave the manabase as it is? I still have to try..

[Wasteland]

I think too that you cannot afford to put a non-island-basic into the deck (since the UR version is mainboard MONO U)

[FoolofaTook]

Maybe the on-color fetch lets the UR list play a mountain in the sideboard? I have like 11 red cards in the sideboard right now and the one thing that really worries me is that I can't keep a volcanic island in play when I really need to, like against Merfolk or Landstill.

I'm thinking maybe something like this:

4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
2x Trinket Mage

4x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Flooded Strand
3x Volcanic Island
6x Island
1x Academy Ruins

2x Crucible of Worlds
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Counterbalance
3x Standstill

4x Brainstorm
4x Stifle
1x Trickbind
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
2x Spell Snare

Sideboard

1x Mountain
3x Firespout
3x Lightning Bolt
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroblast
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Relic of Progenitus

Then the tune against Merfolk becomes -4 Force of Will (borrowing from J.V. because I think he's right on this one), -3 Standstill (too easy to get it pinned in your hand by Aether Vial and we don't care about blue count any more), -2 Spell Snare, -1 Counterbalance, -1 Sensei's Divining Top, +1 Mountain, +3 Firespout, +3 Lightning Bolt, +2 Red Elemental Blast and +2 Pyroblast. Loaded for bear, or fish as the case may be.

I'm thinking to try the 2nd Crucible at this point too and that makes Blood Moon not in the sideboard. Can't really afford both concepts, too much value put on a limited number of matchups.

[J.V.]

Then the tune against Merfolk becomes -4 Force of Will (borrowing from J.V. because I think he's right on this one), -3 Standstill (too easy to get it pinned in your hand by Aether Vial and we don't care about blue count any more), -2 Spell Snare, -1 Counterbalance, -1 Sensei's Divining Top, +1 Mountain, +3 Firespout, +3 Lightning Bolt, +2 Red Elemental Blast and +2 Pyroblast. Loaded for bear, or fish as the case may be.

I'm thinking to try the 2nd Crucible at this point too and that makes Blood Moon not in the sideboard. Can't really afford both concepts, too much value put on a limited number of matchups.

Keep in mind I DON'T recommend pulling out FoW on the Draw... As for Mountain out of the board, this may be the correct way to approach this in the Ur Version, It definitely can't replace a Mishra's Factory as your threat count is already so low...

[FoolofaTook]

Keep in mind I DON'T recommend pulling out FoW on the Draw... As for Mountain out of the board, this may be the correct way to approach this in the Ur Version, It definitely can't replace a Mishra's Factory as your threat count is already so low...

Yeah, I'd sideboard out 3x Daze and a Wasteland on the draw instead of the Forces. There's an argument for siding out 1 Wasteland and keeping 1 Spell Snare on the play also and I might do that also. The Wastelands are just there for Mutavaults basically and I don't know that I need 3 of them game 2 if I'm bringing a mountain in with all the red. Crucible stays in for the Mishra's in game 2 and siding out a Wasteland wouldn't make me want to pull it.