[DTW] Bant Survival

[Jak]

I would consider running only 3 if you have 7 cantrips.

What's your reasoning? As I have said, Vial is best early, no cantripping into it on turn 3.

What reasons would they have to run it?

Uncounterable threats
Instant speed threats
Acceleration
More mana for Survival

There are reasons to run it and trying to ignore them by saying flash is the same thing or playing cards with a higher cmc makes them uncounterable is bad reasoning. I don't run it because it just sucks to draw it late and to maximize when you want to see it, running 4 is the answer.

No, he just drew normal. 1 Stifle, 1 Wasteland and 1 EE is no god draw
And he played the EE after i vialed in the hierarch. Think i drew RWM, Clique and Rafiq on my turns.

So how did you lose? If you still had a land and good cards in hand, what did he draw to make the game just end? I'm guessing Goyf, which means you saw no Swords, no second Land, no Vial, no Hierarch in 5 turns (Goyf being a 4/5). Sucks hard man.

I disagree here. Kira does the same as the mage simply better if you face spot removal.

Exactly, so why not run a card that does the same thing as Kira but can come in to help other MUs?

And S.Assault. But maybe you're right, shutting down loam should slow them down enought to develop a good board position against them. However the game is far away from being over. They can get rid of the mage with many maindeck weapons.

That's why Mage is great. It slows them down while you can still do your stuff and beat for two. I left out Assault because I've never seen it come down early.

Missed that one again ? Lets try it once more, what was your question again

Okay, again, how did Mongoose get in the list? I thought you tested versus Counterbalance Threshold which Mongoose isn't present in. Did you just randomly throw in advice for Tempo Thresh or something?

Maybe in an aggro heavy meta? They might be to slow against a lot of Burn, Zoo and Goblins?

I honestly don't think you should. Playing it as a surprise blocker, taking the Price of Progress/Fireblast/Siege Gang Commander, and then getting rid of their Nacatl/Warchief/Chieftan is still pretty awesome.

And one question i'm always asking myself : If you have a sprite in hand and your opponent plays SDT. Do you counter this one? I normally don't, but SDT seems worth it. I don't know. Do you / would you counter SDT this way?

YES. Sure it can be used as protection, but countering things like SDT are what you dream of.

[XiaN]

So i went to a local PTGSTW qualifier with 24 player and i took the list i posted above.

1 [P3] Plains (3)
1 [P3] Forest (2)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [A] Tropical Island
1 [A] Tundra
3 [A] Savannah

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
2 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
1 [ALA] Rafiq of the Many
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [JU] Wonder

// Spells
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [LRW] Ponder
3 [DIS] Spell Snare

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Path to Exile
SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
SB: 1 Genesis
SB: 1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 1 Trygon Predator

Round 1 against Belcher

I kept a hand of Force, Cantrips and RWM. At this point i didn't know i was playing against Belcher.

Game 1

He wins the roll and starts with Land Grant. My face rapidly becomes -.-#. So he fills his manapool and i forced this belcher. I played an exalted RWM and beat him down to 6 while digging for another Counter, Clique or a faster clock. Found non of them and lost to another belcher.

I boarded -2 RWM -4 Swords -1 Ponder +2 Grip +3 Teeg +1 MMage

Game 2

I forced a first turn belcher again, but only played a teeg as thread. He played the XSwarm and refilled his hand while i had no real dmg on the board. After rounds of drawing nothing but land i got a survival online and finally started to throw out threads and getting sprites to my hand. ( I'm an idiot here. I should have get out the MMage naming Burning Wish to lock him out of the game ). So he attacked with the swarm, Wish into Pyroclasm, gets rid of my teeg and comboed with belcher. But he fizzeled in the combo and scooped, because my gofy would be leathel next turn. Puuhhh

Game 3

Its a mirror of the 3. game. I forced, get survival and teeg and lost him to a pyroclasm, but he fizzled and scooped.

After the game we small talked and while presenting my sideboard plan he pointed out the MMage error. Lucky me

Round 2 against a homebrew GoofySlight with Skyshroud Elite, Berserk, Nacatle, Ape, Goofy and burn. ( This deck won the swiss rounds )

Game 1

I had a creature heavy hand with survival. He starts with Land, Lotus petal, Ape and Elite. Uh ok

After rounds of trading Sprites, Forces, Swords vs. Burn and lots of dudes we came down to the following situation.

Me at 1 life with a fresh RWM, an online survival and no cards in hand. Him at 7 life with no creatures on the board an no hand. I would win this ( Mana for Rafiq next turn ) if he don't draw direct damage. Of cause he did and i lost. Quick note : there where no more Sprites in the deck, so i had to take the RWM.

I boarded in Path and RWM vs. Pridemage and Spellsnare.

Game 2

Again we traded Paths/Swords vs. his dudes and i overwelm him with an active survival and 2 RWM in play.

Game 3

I had to muligan an zero land hand and keeped a 4 land 2 cantrip hand.

He had the nuts and after brainstormed 2 Path and 1 Sword he still had 4 creatures on the board. Not much i can do there.

Round 3 vs. Moxeruption ( Which won the tournament and one of the two slots to Rome )

Game 1

We got deckchecked and i got an gameloss for having 3 Spellsnare proxies ( on the back of 10 mana do nothing spells ) in my deck box.

Game 2

The game went on in my favor, but it comes down to the following :

I had 3 lands in play ( one untapped ), a survival in play and only one gofy in my hand ( with 2 more lands ). He had 3 lands open and 3-4 cards in hand. Everything in my head screamd "DON'T DO IT!. You take no advantage, survivaling for Squee here" ... and of cause i didn't hear to my head and survivaled for Squee. He tapped 3 mana and V.Clique in my face. I drew nothing but more lands the following turns and he beat me down with the clique.

Its ok to loose because of such a dumb play.

Round 4 Dredge

Game 1

He dredged 4 bridges into his grave, i took them out with a Qasali on my Survival and lost to Ichorid beatdown.

I boarded in Teeg and MM. Don't remember what i took out, i think RWM and something like Spellsnare.

Game 2

I beat him down to 6 and he creates Zombie token. But i can not find a creature to survival wonder, allowing me to fly over them for the win with one ponder ( shuffle ) and one brainstorm.

Round 5 Dredge again

I got beaten down, with no relevant action on my side. Sprited his break throughts, sworded the discard outlets and played Teeg. Its not enough :S

So i ended up 1-4 with a meta full of combo ( at least 8 belcher/ANT + 2-3 dredge decks on 24 players ). I want the new ClearGraveyard and ComboYouSuck traps in my sb

Uncounterable threats
Instant speed threats
Acceleration
More mana for Survival

Uncounterable ... yes def. a good reason.
Instant speed threads ... in which mu is this relevant? Nice to have, but not needed imo.
Acceleration ... but don't we have enough? 4 Noble fit this role perfectly.
More mana for survival ... like i said before : You win anyway with survival in play. No need for the vial here.

There are reasons to run it and trying to ignore them by saying flash is the same thing or playing cards with a higher cmc makes them uncounterable is bad reasoning. I don't run it because it just sucks to draw it late and to maximize when you want to see it, running 4 is the answer.

I've posted numerous other reasons why not to play it in this deck. And being able to play around CB without it was one of the weakest points. You may consider rereading the others as well.

So how did you lose? If you still had a land and good cards in hand, what did he draw to make the game just end? I'm guessing Goyf, which means you saw no Swords, no second Land, no Vial, no Hierarch in 5 turns (Goyf being a 4/5). Sucks hard man.

No, i had no permanent in play after the EE. I had 1 Trop, 1 Vial, 1 Hierarch. He EE's for one and wasted away the Trop. I lost to 2 Gofys with me sitting on swords with no land

Exactly, so why not run a card that does the same thing as Kira but can come in to help other MUs?

Because against spot removal, kira does way, way more then the mage.

Most likely you'll play the mage on Swords most times you'll use him against spot removal. So virtually you trade 5 ( the mage and your own playset ) of your cards vs. 4 of his.

Kira on the other hand reads : "Creatures you control gain protection from Threads of Disloyality, Swords, Path, Ghastly Demise, Smother, Shackles, Lightning Bolt, the anti blue blasts, Vindicate, Maelstrom Pulse ..." and you can still use your own swords. Of cause, they can get rid of her with multiple copies of their removal, but you have Sprites, Force and Spell snare in this case

Okay, again, how did Mongoose get in the list? I thought you tested versus Counterbalance Threshold which Mongoose isn't present in. Did you just randomly throw in advice for Tempo Thresh or something?

This note about the Mongoose wasn't related to the matches against Thresh before. I just randomly throw that in

[Jak]

Uncounterable ... yes def. a good reason.
Instant speed threads ... in which mu is this relevant? Nice to have, but not needed imo.
Acceleration ... but don't we have enough? 4 Noble fit this role perfectly.
More mana for survival ... like i said before : You win anyway with survival in play. No need for the vial here.

Me at 1 life with a fresh RWM, an online survival and no cards in hand. Him at 7 life with no creatures on the board an no hand. I would win this ( Mana for Rafiq next turn ) if he don't draw direct damage. Of cause he did and i lost. Quick note : there where no more Sprites in the deck, so i had to take the RWM.

I had 3 lands in play ( one untapped ), a survival in play and only one gofy in my hand ( with 2 more lands ). He had 3 lands open and 3-4 cards in hand. Everything in my head screamd "DON'T DO IT!. You take no advantage, survivaling for Squee here" ... and of cause i didn't hear to my head and survivaled for Squee. He tapped 3 mana and V.Clique in my face. I drew nothing but more lands the following turns and he beat me down with the clique.

Not always. Sure, Vial might not have helped in these situations but assuming you will win because you have Survival in play is a bad mentality.

I've posted numerous other reasons why not to play it in this deck. And being able to play around CB without it was one of the weakest points. You may consider rereading the others as well.

Dude, stop arguing against Vial! I am with you in not running it! There is no need for us to discuss it anymore.

No, i had no permanent in play after the EE. I had 1 Trop, 1 Vial, 1 Hierarch. He EE's for one and wasted away the Trop. I lost to 2 Gofys with me sitting on swords with no land

I recall you saying you had 2 lands in hand. Still, a one time thing doesn't mean a whole lot.

Because against spot removal, kira does way, way more then the mage.

Most likely you'll play the mage on Swords most times you'll use him against spot removal. So virtually you trade 5 ( the mage and your own playset ) of your cards vs. 4 of his.

Kira on the other hand reads : "Creatures you control gain protection from Threads of Disloyality, Swords, Path, Ghastly Demise, Smother, Shackles, Lightning Bolt, the anti blue blasts, Vindicate, Maelstrom Pulse ..." and you can still use your own swords. Of cause, they can get rid of her with multiple copies of their removal, but you have Sprites, Force and Spell snare in this case

Most of the time when I bring Mage in to name Swords, I board mine out. You wanna know why? Because it is against control decks. I don't bring Mage in against something like Threshold.

What you said about Kira is true. I might try one in the board.

Sucks about the tournament.

[HPB_Eggo]

Instant speed threads ... in which mu is this relevant? Nice to have, but not needed imo.

This is actually quite relevant. Being able to hold back using Survival until the end of your opponents turn has a lot of advantages. You get to see what they play, so you can tutor for what you actually need, rather than what you thought you needed. You can hold back tutoring so you can grab a Sprite to protect your guys if you have to, but you can still vial in that 'goyf even though you waited. You can wait to tutor up a guy to pitch to FoW, but still play out a threat with vial if you don't have to.

While this aspect of vial doesn't absolutely dominate any matchups, it makes the deck generally more flexible, especially with Survival out. I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure flexible is better, and doing things at the end of your opponents turn is almost always an improvement over doing things during your own turn.

[XiaN]

Not always. Sure, Vial might not have helped in these situations but assuming you will win because you have Survival in play is a bad mentality.

Yes, sure. Never say "always" or "never", but most time it lands and sticks its a very, very big game advantage. But thats the reason we play it, so no reason to mention it again

Dude, stop arguing against Vial! I am with you in not running it! There is no need for us to discuss it anymore.

I hoped we could come up with a new section in the primer featuring when to play Vial and when not.

I recall you saying you had 2 lands in hand. Still, a one time thing doesn't mean a whole lot.

The first one was stifled away on my first turn. And sure this does not happen very often, but mana denial is still a very strong strategy against this deck.

Sucks about the tournament.

The result was bad sure, but i learned some new plays with the deck so it's not that bad. Like a friend of mine said afterwards : "It was simply the wrong deck for that meta".

A thing to mention : A friend runs much better results very tournament we both attend with this bant list. In this tournament he made it into the top8, but then lost to a homebrew UGw Grindstone in the quarter finals.

The question is .. why And i wished for 1-2 EE in my MD quite often lately.

And how is the Goose test going?

[Jak]

Yes, sure. Never say "always" or "never", but most time it lands and sticks its a very, very big game advantage. But thats the reason we play it, so no reason to mention it again

Okay, good.

I hoped we could come up with a new section in the primer featuring when to play Vial and when not.

I'll probably be updating the primer a little tonight so I could add more about Vial since it is the most talked about/disputed card.

The first one was stifled away on my first turn. And sure this does not happen very often, but mana denial is still a very strong strategy against this deck.

Land destruction like that will knock any deck off of its feet and then get trampled by Goyfs the exact way you did. Do not think this happens often with the deck since most people run about four or more basics. Misty Rainforest will also help a ton at stabilizing under a Wasteland assault.

The result was bad sure, but i learned some new plays with the deck so it's not that bad. Like a friend of mine said afterwards : "It was simply the wrong deck for that meta".

Yeah, two Ichorid is tough, but the deck still has a shot against anything really. However, the deck check error and the few play mistakes do hurt. I am going to a tournament today and I think Ichorid will be there. I hear there have been two people playing it lately so in go Crypts :).

A thing to mention : A friend runs much better results very tournament we both attend with this bant list. In this tournament he made it into the top8, but then lost to a homebrew UGw Grindstone in the quarter finals.

Not the same deck at all. Most people communicating in this thread have had great results with Bant Survival.

The question is .. why And i wished for 1-2 EE in my MD quite often lately.

Why what? EE is pretty slow and what do you need to hit?

And how is the Goose test going?

I am pretty happy running 2-3 in the deck. I'll keep going with them today because the last time I played the deck, they were amazing.

[Jak]

Went 3-1 today beating TES, Zoo, and Wg Armageddon Stax (the one with Knight of the Reliquary). Lost to Eventide block BW. Sucks. He ran 4 Sqords, 4 Path, 4 O Ring, and 4 Unmake or something. Then he ran creatures like Nightsky Mimic, Restless Apparition, and Nip Gwyllion. To make those tic, he ran Edge of Divinity. Oh and Beckon Apparition. The games were me not drawing removal at all and him removing all my creatures. Meh, at least I beat the decks that are tiered in Legacy.

Playing today does make me want Sower again since facing Knight of the Reliquary or a 7/7 flier sucks. I want tutorable removal.

[Waikiki]

you can give the coatl a try (1UG 1/1 flying deathtouch)

[Jak]

you can give the coatl a try (1UG 1/1 flying deathtouch)

Yeah, I don't know what I want to do with it. That seems to be better than Sower since it is hard to protect her at times. I'll try to squeeze one in the next time I play.

Edit-

Maybe this???

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
3 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains

4 Brainstorm
4 Survival
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Rhox War Monk
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
1 Trygon Predator
1 Winged Coatl
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Squee
1 Wonder

I don't know how much I like it. I want to add a couple Mongeese. Ponders also could do some good.

SB
4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
3 Krosan Grip
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Genesis
1 Rhox War Monk

I really want to add 3 Crypts but I also really want 3 Teegs. Mostly depends on what I see in my meta that day I guess.

[losada]

Went 3-3 yesterday beating MonoU Control, TES and CounterTop, and losing against Gobblins, CounterTop and Enchantress. Against gobblins 2 mulligan, to 5 and 6 cards. I want more swords, maybe I include 3 path to exile. Countertop made me a Top turn 1 and CB turn2 in both games, with fow in hand, and i dont see vial. Enchantress was a very difficult mu, with the green/white enchantment who gives shroud to the rest of enchantments.

[Black Mass]

I went 4-3 yesterday.
Won't go into details with matchup because I didn't take notes.
Lost against merfolk, didn't draw any of my removal pre and postboard, that sucked like hell. I tested against it and had a perfect score. So first match was lost.
Second against zoo. Drew shit in 3 games but in the 2nd he got stuck on 1 land, that helped. This should have been won, the MU is not that bad.
Third against Ubg landstill. Survival got active, should say enough.
Fourth against B/R Goblins: Crushed it completely. When they have a slow hand, you can control them. I ended game 2 with no lands, but 3 hierarchs and a active survival. RWM is golden here indeed.
Fifth against R/G aggro: Weird build, no problems.
Sixth against Ichorid: first I lost because of a god hand from him. In the following 2 games I had my Tormod's crypt and a force in my openings hand. That way I could controll him.
Seventh and last match vs UW Countertop/Landstill: First one I win on too much beats for him to control. Then I probably make some sideboard choises that were bad for me. Prolly should have gone more aggro, but he had me in a wastelock in the first so I was a little afraid to overextend with my mana. He just had answers to everything I played in the 2 following games, never had a real chance.

The meta was swarming with Merfolk and Zoo, for Ghent, the next tournament on my list I'll probbaly make some changes.

I played a alternate list than the one I posted, but don't have much time right now. So I'll try to post later.

[Waikiki]

Yeah, I don't know what I want to do with it. That
Edit-

Maybe this???

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
3 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains

4 Brainstorm
4 Survival
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Rhox War Monk
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
1 Trygon Predator
1 Winged Coatl
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Squee
1 Wonder

I don't know how much I like it. I want to add a couple Mongeese. Ponders also could do some good.

SB
4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
3 Krosan Grip
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Genesis
1 Rhox War Monk

I really want to add 3 Crypts but I also really want 3 Teegs. Mostly depends on what I see in my meta that day I guess.

For the sb I think 3 war monk are sufficient between md and sb.
4 path maybe is overkill? 2 grips are sufficient if you add ponder main deck.

For the MD id only play clique if you expect a controll meta which would lead to less rhox war monks maindeck. I also think witness is not needed. and 3 sprites should be sufficient since you wont use them T1/2/3. those could be replaced with ponders/goose or whatever suits you.

[Jak]

For the sb I think 3 war monk are sufficient between md and sb.
4 path maybe is overkill? 2 grips are sufficient if you add ponder main deck.

For the MD id only play clique if you expect a controll meta which would lead to less rhox war monks maindeck. I also think witness is not needed. and 3 sprites should be sufficient since you wont use them T1/2/3. those could be replaced with ponders/goose or whatever suits you.

My meta is so aggro right now. I face Zoo and Goblins every week.

I'll think about Witness for now and focus on it when I test. How much I survivaled for it, how much it mattered, etc, but I always love it because it is just such a powerhouse.

I'll cut Sprites back and maybe a land for 2 Ponder... or two Goose. Probably the two Ponder though since I am seeing less control.

[Black Mass]

I'm thinking about adding 1-2 quirion rangers to the deck. I got screwed against goblins, landstill and the fact that merfolk islandwalk couple of times yesterday, so protecting my manabase wouldn't be all that bad and making extra mana off Hierarch and not missing landdrops seems cool too.

[Jak]

I'm thinking about adding 1-2 quirion rangers to the deck. I got screwed against goblins, landstill and the fact that merfolk islandwalk couple of times yesterday, so protecting my manabase wouldn't be all that bad and making extra mana off Hierarch and not missing landdrops seems cool too.

A better mana base would probably serve you better. It does give a creature Vigilance, which is neat, but the deck is so tight. What do you plan to cut? Can you post your list?

[Black Mass]

Don't know what to cut yet. I guess it'll be toolbox creatures, probably Kira will get the kick and the second one I don't know.

As fo the more stable manabase: I play 18 lands at the monent and I played 7 cantrips (not playing vial like in my last list), which should be enough to find land. It's not like I was screwed, but ranger can serve as extra protection without having to play 2 or more extra basics and returning your island to your hand so you can block Merfolk. I play 2 basics at the moment and it seemed enough, but extra protection is never bad I guess.

[Jokemon]

Hey! Another small success for this deck :)
I played this list in a small tournament that i arranged (only 11 peeps but some quality players where participating), finished 2nd in the swiss but got beaten by Team America in the semi-final (Extirpate on Swords was a bitch, going to put in 2 Path in the board I think)

CREATURES (21)
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Gilded Drake
1 Wonder
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Trygon Predator

ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Survival of the Fittest

SORCERIES (2)
2 Portent

INSTANTS (14)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare

LANDS (19)
3 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
3 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Tundra

SIDEBOARD
3 Krosan Grip
1 Genesis
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Meddling Mage
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Pithing Needle

Portent was a small test, this card has potential but in a different deck so i'm going to stick with Ponder. I liked having Venser in the deck, a tutor able answer to everything (not an all that bad draw either). And for Gilded Drake, he was MVP in the TA match (where 2 of them in the meta). Spell Snare is really nice but i didn't draw a single one during the whole tourney :S

The meta was:
2 TA
2 Landstill
1 Stax
1 Reanimate
1 Chains-Anvil lock homebrew called Denied
1 Merfolks
1 Faeries
1 Random Sliver.deck (very sub-optimal build)

[XiaN]

I want tutorable removal.

There you go.

Why what? EE is pretty slow and what do you need to hit?

Most likely token generators ( belcher, ichorid, enchantress ), but Zoo ( all these 1 drops ) as well.

Lost to Eventide block BW. Sucks. He ran 4 Sqords, 4 Path, 4 O Ring, and 4 Unmake or something.

That's exactly the BW-"I hate your deck" i mentioned above. This is where CB shines.

Second against zoo. Drew shit in 3 games but in the 2nd he got stuck on 1 land, that helped. This should have been won, the MU is not that bad.

Def. not. This MU is really even and depends a lot on the pilot and draw/hands. Against a good Zoo player the MU is 50:50 ... at best

I'm thinking about adding 1-2 quirion rangers to the deck. I got screwed against goblins, landstill and the fact that merfolk islandwalk couple of times yesterday, so protecting my manabase wouldn't be all that bad and making extra mana off Hierarch and not missing landdrops seems cool too.

This happens for me a lot, when the deck is insufficient shuffled. Try to reshuffle your deck from scratch. 18 lands fit very well ... at least for me.

I'll think about Witness for now and focus on it when I test. How much I survivaled for it, how much it mattered, etc, but I always love it because it is just such a powerhouse.

When was EWitness more than a "Skip your turn:return a card from your graveyard to your hand" for you? ( in the first 10 turns, when you don't have 10+ mana on the board )

I thought for some time about the 2 QPM main. I'm considering to change it to 1 QPM and 1 Mangara. But again, Mangara is such a toolbox creature . Slow, but good and a bad topdeck. And whats up with the Predator in all you lists? Isn't he simply to slow?

And because Zendikar is new : What can be considered as choice for our deck? Ok, the UG Fetchie, but what else? I'm thinking about the "ClearGraveyard" and of cause the "FUCombo" trap. Is the ClearGraveyard better then the Crypt? Imo it is, simply because the enemy don't know you have a option to clear his graveyard. On the other hand some times you got beaten down by ichorids and they are not muling sth. in their grave.

*Confused*

[Jak]

There you go.

Mangara is terrible. Double white, only a 1 for 1 trade, and it is slow. I would rather run Intrepid Hero.

That's exactly the BW-"I hate your deck" i mentioned above. This is where CB shines.

I was doing fine, but not drawing removal for his Aura'd up dude sucked. It should have been an easy win.

When was EWitness more than a "Skip your turn:return a card from your graveyard to your hand" for you? ( in the first 10 turns, when you don't have 10+ mana on the board )

What? I am paying 3 mana to get back a needed card and a body that can chump or go offensive. How is that anything like giving the opponent a Time Walk? What you just said didn't make any sense.

I thought for some time about the 2 QPM main. I'm considering to change it to 1 QPM and 1 Mangara. But again, Mangara is such a toolbox creature . Slow, but good and a bad topdeck. And whats up with the Predator in all you lists? Isn't he simply to slow?

Predator is to get around CB while being good against Stax. It is also blue. Mangara is weak when you can't do tricks with it.

[Misplayer]

I played an Aether Vial build to a 3-1 finish at a local event last night. I lost to RGW Zoo, and beat Canadian Thresh, Domain Zoo and UGbr CounterTop. I have never played any Survival list before so I made some dumb play mistakes that the deck bailed out.

Thoughts: Vial was very solid all night. Survival came online about half of my games. Witness was very very good (props to J.V. for advising me to throw it in at the last second). Rafiq was the stone-cold nuts and won me at least 1/3 of my games. I got mana flooded 3 times with only 18 lands. I essentially lost to Jitte both games 2 and 3 against RGW Zoo. Almost all my games were VERY close.

When sideboarding against Zoo-style aggro, I usually brought in RWM #4 and 3 Path to Exile subbing out 1 V. Clique and some combination of Force of Wills and Aether Vials. Boarding out FoW felt wrong but I figured I wanted either removal or men all game. What's difficult is that nearly all of their creatures outclass ours, especially when you're on defense. I couldn't drop an early Goyf for fear of it getting burned down. Creatures like Spellstutter Sprite and Qasali Pridemage are really weak against their threats. By the time I could get RWM online it would usually get Fireblasted or Path'd. What is a good boarding strategy for this matchup?

For reference, my maindeck creature base was:
4 Goyf
4 Hierarch
3 RWM
3 Spellstutter
2 Pridemage
1 Gilded Drake
1 Vendillion Clique
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Wonder

And my SB looked like this:
3 Krosan Grip
3 Path to Exile
2 Meddling Mage
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 V. Clique
1 Trygon Predator
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Genesis