@Cyrus: For more Knesis, cut Pillar. Combo do not fear it anymore how they used to do. They win trough it.
And againsīt Zoo, I think is better to side out like, 2 Piledrivers (usually Squire), 2 Incinerators (to few goblins usually), 2 Instigator. Then bring in Relics aswell, to stop Goyf and Grim Lavamancer. I wouldnīt take out Stingscourer, because they buy you a shitload of time, specially coming out a Vial.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
How has the Goblin Instigator been treating you guys?
Better than the options. Sometimes he's pretty wicked, like turn 3 win vs combo.
How does Instigator help T3 kill, if he only connects turn 3?
Best way to deal with combo is lackey into turn 2 Warchief + Earwig Squad. True Story.
Nevertheless, Insigator is a house.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
He beats a lot with 1 or 2 Chieftains. Maybe that's just me hyping the card, but it is awesome.
Turn 1 Cast Lackey.Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Turn 2 Cast Instigator; Lackey's trigger in SGC.
Turn 3 Cast Goblin Chieftain, Swing team, Instigator's First Strike trigger in a 2nd Chieftain.
Granted this scenario is rare, but in this case Instigator helped with a T3 kill by not connecting til T3.
TPDMC
And why does it matter if it's a turn 3 kill (in the majority of matchups)? If he hits at all the opponent is probably fucked.
Storm Combo matters.
Getting them down to 15 is probably the same result as getting them down to 20 (so your point about instigator hitting is valid) but still and all, turn three is around the time protected combo goes off.
Turn 1 Cast Lackey.
Turn 2 Cast Piledriver; Lackey's trigger in SGC.
Turn 3 Cast Goblin Chieftain, Swing team.
Turn 1 Cast Lackey.
Turn 2 Cast Mogg War Marchall; Lackey's trigger in Warchief.
Turn 3 Cast Goblin Matron for Piledriver, Cast Goblin Piledriver, Swing team. Lackey trigger into Crafter.
Turn 1 Cast Lackey.
Turn 2 Cast Piledriver; Lackey's trigger in Chieftain.
Turn 3 Cast Goblin Chieftain, Swing team. (19 dmg)
And all the double Piledrivers T3 kill possibilities.
Donīt get me wrong, I love Instigator, just donīt see it helping T3 kills much, thats it.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
All of those scenarios involve you choosing to drop Goblin Lackey on the first turn over Æther Vial. If I'm on the play in the first game and I don't know what they're playing, I'm dropping Vial over Lackey.
Why does everyone ignore the Kiki-Jiki wins? I don't mean FCG wins, or combo wins, just good old fashion Kiki tricks.
aka:
Turn 1 Cast Lackey.
Turn 2 Cast Piledriver; Lackey's trigger in Kiki-Jiki, Opponent's EoT Copy Piledriver.
Turn 3 Cast Anything you damn well want; Copy Piledriver, turn sideways for 22.
Not to mention over-complicating all the previous ones where:
Turn 1 Lackey
Turn 2 Piledriver; trigger in SGC
Turn 3 Turn sideways for 17, throw a goblin for 2
would suffice.
Instigator often won't build itself into a turn 3 win, but it does it's own job of building into the later game similar to Vial.
We were talking especifically about the Combo MU.
And we were also just discussing how Instigator help T3 kill, which I donīt think it really does.
@Eseph: totally forgot Kiki there. Does the "copy piledriver eot" thing still work?
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Always, just assume the text on Kiki says: "Until the beginning of the end of turn step" and go from there. Works wonders with just about everything, and only gets better with Chieftains kicking around.
Nice! Will remember that!
Bringing back the Zoo subject, does Green offer something good againsīt the MU? What abount White?
I'm looking at Steely Resolves, but it seems to junky.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Is there something specifically in the match that you're having trouble with? My general strategy was to try clog the board and buy time the first 4 turns or so, then do as Goblins does and explode turns 5-8. Obviously to do this you need to soak up as much of the creature damage as possible to keep your life total out of burn range. In testing against the Hatfield list I haven't found the match up to be super lop-sided, but I was having slightly favorable percentages.
Stingscourger is really good in this match up, as it will often set them back a drop and an attack step. Not quite Time Walk, but a ton of tempo if you bounce a Turn 2 Tarmogoyf and chump an Ape or Nacatl. Stingscourger is also bomb against Thoctar or Knight of the Reliquary, since both those plays tie up so much resources negating the play or forcing them to do it back to back turns can be breaking.
If you're using an Incinerator aim it at the sure targets, aka, if you have 4 Goblins on board and they have Pridemage, Thoctar, and mana up, go for the Pridemage. The risk of them killing a Goblin and negating your Incinerator is often too risky, and the fact of the matter is you just need guys off the board. You can chump a 5/4 or swing into it with a huge Piledriver, to beat Zoo you just need to keep the ground from getting over crowded, knocking off 2-3 power guys is fine.
Post board Pyrokenesis can be really good, especially if you expect Volcanic Fallouts. A post Fallout 'Kenesis can often turn their one-sided Fallout into a symmetrical Wrath of God. 'Kenesis is also a big tool on the defensive, the deck often has a lot of expendable 1/1s, so it can be completely acceptable to put some Matrons, Mogg War Marshals or Tokens in front of a few attackers then post combat finish off a few of their guys. In these cases you're still probably ok on card advantage since Matron pulled you a card with citp, and Marshal will bring an additional token in dying.
TPDMC
If you're going to play a splash, and you want to beat Zoo, White seems pretty good to me. The ability to play Swords or Path (I'd lean toward Path, because I prefer not giving my opponents life, but your mileage may vary) on a Goyf/Thoctar/Knight is a pretty powerful effect. The only problem is that Path/Swords isn't a Goblin, so it's unMatronable and unRingleaderable (that's right people, unRingleaderable, tell your friends, this is how we roll from now on).
Black has Warren Weirding, which has been previously discussed, and is, shockingly enough, a Goblin. Hell, I'll even go so far as to evoke the eGhost of True Story by noting that it allows you to play Terminate. I suppose in some ways Weirding + Terminate is a similar removal combination to Gempalm/Stingscourger + Path/Swords, in that one half is a Goblin and the other isn't. The strong point on Weirding/Terminate is that either half can remove Tarmogoyf permanently.
But I think I'll stick with Mono-red for now, myself.
It has been proven: you want to beat zoo, play mono red.
More removal is not the answer, unless it is free like pyrokinesis. You need to get goblins onto the field and then build up your card advantage and save up for the late game inevitability.
It is also build dependent. Some goblins builds are more suited for the aggro matchup. Some are not.
You should never leave home without 4 pyrokinesis in your sideboard in today's metagame. I don't care where you are.
As Eldariel said: you are the aggro deck with more lands. This is a big advantage, and why cards like stingscourger are HUGE. He saves you one turn of them having to recast, and he also saves you one turn of being able to chump block, and he ALSO saves you the turn that the bounced creature has summoning sickness. Run more of them if you want to improve the matchup, and postboard bring in 4 pyrokinesis. Once you get to 5-6 land and a much larger hand than them, the game is over. I board out x3 piledriver (only running 3), x4 instigator, and bring in 3 chieftains and 4 pyrokinesis. Does anybody else think this is a bad idea? My build is somewhat standard: 3 SGC, 4 instigator, 1 chieftain, 3 gempalm, 3 sting, 3 piledriver, and the rest are 4 ofs. And then 23 lands. Is it a bad idea to board out instigator against zoo, as I do believe it is a somewhat bad idea to board out lackey against them.
I've found relic to be not that great as it doesn't directly affect board position.
Are Piledriver and Instigator less desirable than Lackey? Zoo is pretty much 20 land and 40 answers to Lackey. I can't see him ever getting through removal and dorks and he doesn't contribute to an alpha strike much. The only time I can think of is when Zoo might swing with their early guy and if you have a Vial at 1 you could bring him in and try to connect, but even still they will often play out a blocker 2nd main phase or if not then they have mana up for removal. I usually board them out over Piledrivers, while Piledriver isn't incredible it usually still trades with something, be it removal or a blocker, where Lackey will sometimes lightning rod removal, but never trades in combat.
TPDMC
You sir are not running enough Stingscourgers... Zoo would much rather build a board position than remove something early on like lackey, so they will often lay out blockers rather than remove him. Stingscourger steps in and voila Lackey has just done his part. Granted he's still less than stellar late game, but there are few instances where I don't want a lackey in my opener.
Yo, you guys have been talking a lot about splashing black and I'm on the fence about it. I need definate answers to goyf and I think warren wierding will help (maybe terminate). Is it a good idea?
Unfortunately I can't afford the dual lands, so what's a good cost effective replacement?
6x Mountain
1x Swamp
4x Wasteland (I already own them)
4x Auntie's Hovel/Graven Cairns/Dragonskull Summit/Pain lands?
4x Auntie's Hovel/Graven Cairns/Dragonskull Summit/Pain lands?
4x bloodstained mire (I'll proxy for them at my local fnm)
Which of these combinations would be the best? I looked at deckcheck and RB gobs look to be doing pretty solid.
Auntie's Hovel
Graven Cairns
Dragonskull Summit
Pain Land how about shock lands?
Can I fetch these with Bloodstained Mire? Whats the best combinations of these?
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