[Deck] Zoo

[ZaMo]

I'd play 2 Jitte total (main+side), if I were to expect many creature decks (mirror, goblins, w/e).
Besides that, I play the same creature setup (+2 Thoctar), while having 3 PoP main (due to metagame reasons).

Looking forward to read your experience on 5K.

[Svenyboy]

What do you think about Magma Jet? I think it is outdated in Zoo. Lightning Helix and Chain Lightning is definitely better. For example this build:
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
-> I think Magma Jet isn't strong enough and a very bad burnspell. Furthermore I play with 2 Horizon Canopy in my land base and they do their Job better than Jet.

[Dr.AgOn]

I have to disagree here, bitchtoken. Magma Jet is quite horrible as a burn spell, but it can still handle everythink from lackey to confidant and doesn't concede to countertop that easily as a chain lightning does. furthermore, it's most important ability lets you scry and gets rid of those two lands on top you don't want to see and searches for threats as efficient as library does. Canopy on the other hand is a nonbasic land where we already have more than enough of.
just my two cents.
peace

[TotallySweet]

I would contest that Jet gets countered just as easily due to the prevalence of spells for two to flip, not as much as spells for one, but spell snare hits jet so we calls it even.

@hungryLIKEALION:
I had the same deal, 5 slots left and a lot of ideas on what to put there. I eventually decided on 3x Fireblast and 2x Fork. Call me janky if you wish but it's been amazing for me. Forking a Fireblast has surprised many an opponent at 8, it acts like a more expensive path/bolt/helix #5&6, and it's just incredibly fun to copy shit like fact or fiction and vindicate.

[Snief]

-> I think Magma Jet isn't strong enough and a very bad burnspell. Furthermore I play with 2 Horizon Canopy in my land base and they do their Job better than Jet.

Horizon Canopy don´t do the job better imo. Magma Jet is not the best burn spell - in fact it´s quite horrible for that - but more important it´s a cantrip in this deck. You should look at it as a mix of ponder and shock. Horizon Canopy can´t be countered, but you could always find another land which is quite unlikely with Magma Jet. I would test it before you cut it.

[jimmerz213]

Horizon Canopy don´t do the job better imo. Magma Jet is not the best burn spell - in fact it´s quite horrible for that - but more important it´s a cantrip in this deck. You should look at it as a mix of ponder and shock. Horizon Canopy can´t be countered, but you could always find another land which is quite unlikely with Magma Jet. I would test it before you cut it.

In my playing, Ive found horizon canopy to be way better than magma jet for a couple reasons.

1) its a card in your hand rather than manipulating. Sure, you could draw a land, but you could also draw that clutch burn spell/creature to swing the game in your favor.
2) Knight of the Reliquary. Not only does she find the land, she gets bigger when you use it. Its win win in my book.

Canopy can be stifled too, for what thats worth, but all in all I like it more than jet.

[hungryLIKEALION]

1) its a card in your hand rather than manipulating. Sure, you could draw a land, but you could also draw that clutch burn spell/creature to swing the game in your favor.

And when you do draw the land, it still gets you past that land with a draw you wouldn't have otherwise had.

However, I think comparing canopy with magma jet is kind of silly. If you're going to compare magma jet to something, you compare it to Sylvan Library. Which it's not better than.

[Valtrix]

Somebody said it best a while back in the thread, something along the lines of, "Zoo does not need overcosted burn attached to a poor library manipulation ability." I completely agree with that sentiment.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Now all we need is someone to bring up the STP/PTE debate again. Let's keep this rolling Goblins thread!!! Oh wait, i mean Zoo thread.

[FoulQ]

The funniest part about it was, the whole magma jet was started by a guy who didn't like magma jet.

Horizon Canopy and Magma Jet are two entirely different things, like hungryLIKEALION pointed out. Even with the Sylvan Library comparison, Sylvan Library helps sculpt your hand and focus your strategies against late-game decks, while magma jet..um...

Magma jet is great for burn decks because: They need the 2 damage because of philosophy of fire (they need gas), but the 4/60 in the deck allows the burn player to dig for the finisher (fireblast/PoP), or the third crucial land for flamebreak or a 2cc + 1cc. Burn is a philosophy of fire deck in its purest form, zoo is not, and zoo does not necessarily need to dig for finishers like a combo deck (aka burn). You can call me a douchebag for quoting flores articles (I'm assuming he wrote it), but I think it applies really well to why magma jet is good in burn and bad in zoo.

Okay, I'm done now with discussing something already discussed 400 times.

[Valtrix]

Yeah, well if we learn anything from school it's that repetition is the only way for things to set in. I also don't think it's horrible to have older points brought up again. We'd like people to read the thread, but realistically we can't expect everybody to do that, so it's not hard to give a quick answer. However, bringing up old points can also be useful, since I've found that looking back at old ideas helps me focus again on the purpose of where the deck I'm working on is at.

[crow_mw]

There are three ZOO decks in top 16 of StarCityGames 5k. No reports / observations / thoughts ?

[hungryLIKEALION]

One of those was actually goyfsligj. The other two seemed pretty standard, except for the vines of vastwood in the one list. That's a cool piece of tech! I'm excited to try it out in testing. I'm going to try it in my 3 fireblast slots.

I ended up sleeping through my alarm Sunday, so I didn't go to the 5k >_>

[Jim Higginbottom]

Yea running 2 plateaus for wild nacatl does not a zoo deck make. SCG gives decks the wrong name about a 1/4 of the time. They'll list 2 decks with almost the same list one as fish the other as merfolk.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

One of those was actually goyfsligj. The other two seemed pretty standard, except for the vines of vastwood in the one list. That's a cool piece of tech! I'm excited to try it out in testing. I'm going to try it in my 3 fireblast slots

I thought you said that pumps spells were just bad burn spells?

[quicksilver]

I thought you said that pumps spells were just bad burn spells?

They are bad burn spells. Vines of vastwood is more like a counter for removal spells, with an alternate ability to pump.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Double green seems sucky to cast. I always want to have Plateau and Taiga in play or with my first two fetches.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Double green seems sucky to cast. I always want to have Plateau and Taiga in play or with my first two fetches.

Couldn't you just replace "Plateau" with "Savannah" in that sentence and still be able to play just about everything that you wanted or needed to? I don't see why shifting the mana base slightly towards green mana production would necessarily be bad...

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Couldn't you just replace "Plateau" with "Savannah" in that sentence and still be able to play just about everything that you wanted or needed to? I don't see why shifting the mana base slightly towards green mana production would necessarily be bad...

Idk, i just think that Red is the best color in the deck, especially with the manabase. And i also don't think it's worth it to splash a bad card in the deck. I'd take Chain Lightning or hell even Magma Jet over a pump spell.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Idk, i just think that Red is the best color in the deck, especially with the manabase. And i also don't think it's worth it to splash a bad card in the deck. I'd take Chain Lightning or hell even Magma Jet over a pump spell.

But it isn't a pump spell unless you kicker it, it's primary use is to save your creature from getting Swordsed or Pathed. Sure, it can get 2 for 1-ed if they remove your guy in response to you playing it, but if you use it in response then you can save your goyf, which is obviously very favorable.