[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[rsaunder]

@Draw: I ran a draw package of:

3 Brainstorm
3 SDT
3 Standstill
2 FOF

And it was just amazing all day. I'm considering going back to cunning wish for...certain circumstances which would just be in addition to that package. I seriously urge everyone to try this package out.

@Rockout: I hate you for being able to beat 43-land.dec. I tried soooo hard and failed.

[mossivo1986]

its all about 6 maindeck stp effects rofl. .. .. . all of them...

also not going to say it but remember how I said survival has 0 outs to survival other then bird'sing you to death. . . I'm suprised he just scooped because usually thats there only path once you resolve it game 1. game 2 is a bit clunkier but its still basicly the same approach..


o and I told you so. :)

[whiteshepherdman]

@rsaunder: to beat 43 lands, I run 4 EE's and the rest of my paths from my sb, just make sure you don't get shut out of the game too early by their ports before you'ved amassed some mana and it should be fine

[rockout]

@Rockout: I hate you for being able to beat 43-land.dec. I tried soooo hard and failed.

All you need to do g1 is see wish or crucible to win. G2 I got so unbelievably lucky drawing every stp effect I had and still almost losing. I think I'm 3-1 all time against 43land in tourney. My 1 lost is what knocked me out of contention for day 2 at GP chicago (I beat him game 1 with curcible lock .) Game 3 I let a mage on loam die to tabernacle to cast crucible and he drew his 2nd and final ancient grudge to beat me with the snare in my hand for it while getting my mana base raped.

Oh, t1 ee @ 1 is usually good enough to get you there g1 as well, read the post above mine.

[whiteshepherdman]

and like rockout explained, crucible helps a lot too (forgot about that) since you can bring back your factories to block their factories or nantuko's. Shutting them out with wastelock doesn't always work though since they have loam so i prefer to just to build my manabase and play powerful spells. In the end, you win with a cycled decree and stp effects to get rid of their win conditions since maze of ith can't do much against 5 or 6 soldier tokens all at the same time. The worst challenge for me though is getting burned down by barbarian ring but you can easily overcome that if you're playing wishstill with pulse of the fields.

[mossivo1986]

43 land is irrelevant. It's so often not played and if so it's few in numbers.

Let's bring up some lists and satisfy testing needs. I'll post a couple of lists in a bit when im done with my paper or in a few days with some explanations and invites for testing etc.

Also loam. Whats happening with aggro loam. Survival. etc. Get some of the tier 2 decks out of the way and off the board.

[thefreakaccident]

So... I have a slightly less conventional list... I still don't know if this is an optional design, but it seems interesting:

lands//22
3 mutavault
2 faerie conclave
3 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
4 tundra
2 underground sea
1 scrubland
1 plains
2 island

creatures//4
4 spellstutter sprite


spells//34
2 moat
4 brainstorm
4 sensei's divining top
4 force of will
4 standstill
4 swords to plowshares
2 vindicate
3 bitterblossom
4 counterbalance
2 ajani goldmane
1 elspeth, knight errant

sideboard//
3 enlightened tutor
4 relic of progenitus
2 engineered plague
2 engineered explosives
2 ajani goldmane
1 pithing needle
1 elspeth, knight errant


The concept is simple... You play just like normal landstill, stalling the board with continuous effects via bitterblossom and planeswalkers.

But, you can also change gears pretty nicely with the pump abilities of both walkers, as well as the added permission that the sprites provide the deck, much like other lists use snare to complement their counter suit.

I chose vindicate because unlike other landstill builds, we actually have plenty of permanents that stick around, so vindicate as a 1 sided answer to permanents works a little better IMO.

The build has a few high cc cards, but it runs a good amount of cantrips and may also wish to incorperate some number of ponders in the future.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Could a list like this have merit?

[mossivo1986]

needs more lands?

[whiteshepherdman]

I think freakaccident's list doesn't rely on 4 drops as much so 22 is enough vs the usual 23. He doesn't run decrees which make our lists very mana intensive and uses bitterblossom instead+4 sensei's to filter into lands if need be. looks very interesting

[damionblackgear]

My only concern from a first glance is how many nonbasics you run. You should be able to get by with 5 or 6 duals. I would suggest adding the swamp to insure you can play your vindicates against moons, crucibles, critters... it seems solid though.

Cut the plagues though. With so many lords, they're not what they used to be. I suggest ghostly prison and/or (preferably And) propaganda. They're more versitile and give you a better game against agro than plague. Having both means echoing truth/meddling mage (either played any more?) doesn't get them all.

[mossivo1986]

Rofl. Plague is the nuts dude. . . Still...

Prop is easily blasted and answered to all the other answers that engineered is dealt with, whereas ep actually removes, kills threats.

Prison is meh, neither one of the 2 protect your elspeth.

All in all Plague is just better in most ways.

oh and what the crap is too many lords? are you sliver infested?

[mossivo1986]

I think freakaccident's list doesn't rely on 4 drops as much so 22 is enough vs the usual 23. He doesn't run decrees which make our lists very mana intensive and uses bitterblossom instead+4 sensei's to filter into lands if need be. looks very interesting

I don't think so. Hes more reliant on colors and he is justifying a more conditional gameplan. Also he hasn't made up his mind on wether he's casting bb cb or ss t2 which has got to be funny when it turns out that the best threat he plays get hammered with a daze/ spell snare/ spell pierce. All together I feel like the tempo decks rape him in the tempo game and the control decks if they play him will lose but don't really care because they have a 50/50 shot at locking him out with better control or wastelock.

[LostButSeeking]

oh and what the crap is too many lords? are you sliver infested?

Folk and elves--I don't have the privilege of playing against goblins--both have three quality creatures that say "other elves get +1/+1" on them. This makes up, say, a quarter of their creature base.

[damionblackgear]

Rofl. Plague is the nuts dude. . . Still...

Are you playing in a time loop?! Has your meta not met Gobs, Folk, or Elves past M10? All of them play at least 4 lords to null your plagues. Notice how that lackey that used to die is still on the field? Yeah, Plagues are good.... Against D&T (Human) and that's it. The other tribal decks are almost all lords or x/2's.

Prop can be blasted. Chances are they they'll bring them in, if they're red. But, if their aiming at that at least you can try and counter the blast (I'll admit you have to have it in hand for that strategy to work), but if that's your afraid of play all prisons.

Also, I'm aware it doesn't protect Elspeth. She's too slow for Gobs, Folk, or Elves anyway. Yeah she's a win condition but so are your man lands (especially with Crucible) and they can block the 1 or 2 of whatever's attacking and usually kill it (Must have 2+ lords to have anything survive a pumped factory).

Additionally, it makes things like waste or Port that much worse. Tap my land? OK! that meant you didn't attack with 1 or 2 dudes. I'd rather have to time to find the answer than hope that the lord doesn't A) get vialed in or B) Get cast while I'm without counter (GO Plague!).

[Snip. Verbal warning for flame-baiting. Whether I agree with you or not, don't. - Bardo]

Ok. I'll keep it Kosher.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Now, unless you have something intelligent to say be quite.

Hahahaha. Loves me some well placed typos.

[whiteshepherdman]

lol i love how our thread is always the one getting warnings for arguments. Mossivo vs Hanni, Mossivo v Damion and Lost...

However, moss is right in this argument about the fact that engineered plague is amazing against any tribal deck and even against non-LED dredge. Your going to side in spot removal besides E. plague against decks like elves and what you do is remove their lords and drop E. plague as soon as possible to seal the game. Afterwards, its just smooth sailing

[mossivo1986]

lol i love how our thread is always the one getting warnings for arguments. Mossivo vs Hanni, Mossivo v Damion and Lost...

However, moss is right in this argument about the fact that engineered plague is amazing against any tribal deck and even against non-LED dredge. Your going to side in spot removal besides E. plague against decks like elves and what you do is remove their lords and drop E. plague as soon as possible to seal the game. Afterwards, its just smooth sailing

What can I say, I'm the thread bullshit caller? I guess I should get an award.

The amount of knowledge i've gained by arguing in this thread is probably 10x that of others by sitting here reading and not posting.

FYI if any of you care to be skeptical of me check out the T.C.S. thread (Tezzeret Stax Combo). I need help with it as I'm not at all sold on a great model. Needs lots of help and the thread is in need of a good flame or list or something.

[RogueMTG]

I'm sorry it's taken me so long to reply to you guys, my Internet is out of commission at home unfortunately.

Some questions on your list:
How was humility for you?
Isn't a one-off a bit random? I tried it myself, but I felt that having 1 is just not right. I wanted 2 but then I had to cut something and I never figured out what I could cut.
Either it is a 2-of or maybe even 3, but as a 1-of without means to search for it...
How many times was ruins useful for you?
Why no arid mesa? Ever had color issues with your manabase?

About your sideboard:

Why no plague? Did you miss it at all?
How was meddling mage? Did you feel that 3 was the right number?
Which match-ups is duress for and did they serve their purpose?
Why the lone Ajani Goldmane? Was it enough?

PS: congrats on your result btw

Humility was amazing! Easily the MVP of the day. I used to not play it at all, but the Friday before the event I decided to try it out. I ended up winning every game it hit the table. I would love to fit a second one in the main but I don't really know what to cut for it.

Ruins was kind of awful to be honest, I'm probably going to cut it. It was most useful as a wasteland that only hits other Academy Ruins. I only used it a couple times, drawing new cards almost always seemed better than getting something from my GY back. I'm debating changing it to the fourth Factory or just having another open slot (maybe Humility number 2 or a Path to Exile)

No plague was because I don't really like the card. It has a somewhat narrow application and we should already have a decent match-up against people trying to kill us with small dudes. Granted, I only played one tribal deck (Merfolk) and I did lose to it. In a tribal heavy meta I could see the argument, but it seemed better to use the SB to fight the control mirror and combo.

That brings us to Duress, the theory was that it comes in for the Mirror/Planeswalker Control, Combo decks, and random Burn. It acts as a proactive counterspell in the Combo/Burn matchups, and in the control mirror it can give you invaluable information about when it's safe to be aggressive and go for the win as well as stripping their answers.

It did it's job against combo when I played it. First turn taking his LED, second turn dropping Meddling Mage on the 2 Rite of Flames I now knew he had in hand. Unfortunately I wasn't able to test it much in the other match ups. Meddling Mage at 3 seemed to work ok, I may have just gotten lucky and always saw one when I needed it, but the draw package is pretty good.

The manabase was fine pre-Zendikar, I don't think Arid Mesa is really needed, plus it can't find an Island. I didn't have any color problems.

The lone Ajani was for Zoo/Burn and Combo. It should probably be a 2 of or a zero of, but I didn't know what to cut so I kept the miser's 1.

I wish we'd put 2 landstill builds in the T8, I feel more sorry for the archtype than for my lack of prizes. It trounced everything without question until the last three rounds. Such a strong deck right now. Congrats though, glad you made it the distance!

Anyway, how'd wasteland and academy ruins work out for you? I played a basic-heavy build instead of the utility lands and didn't miss them very much all day while the ability to consistently hit basics for the first 3 land drops helped out a lot. And vindicate SB? Interesting. Other than that, love your list. FOF and SDT together MB is so overwhelmingly powerful.

2 in the T8 would have been since. Landstill is definitely a powerhouse. Wasteland was good, it definitely helped mana screw some opponents early and wastelock is still good even with the new fetches. Ruins on the other hand was kind of bad, and as I said before will probably be cut in the future.

I used to run Vindicate main deck, but I really only wanted it in some matchups. Namely Stax/Stompy decks that run lock peices, and anything playing Planeswalkers. Pulling them from the Main made room for Tops and Humility, which seems generally better.

Thanks for the congrats guys, I promised a report, and it'll hopefully be up soon.

Edit: report is up: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=15554

[thefreakaccident]

I don't think so. Hes more reliant on colors and he is justifying a more conditional gameplan. Also he hasn't made up his mind on wether he's casting bb cb or ss t2 which has got to be funny when it turns out that the best threat he plays get hammered with a daze/ spell snare/ spell pierce. All together I feel like the tempo decks rape him in the tempo game and the control decks if they play him will lose but don't really care because they have a 50/50 shot at locking him out with better control or wastelock.

I honestly dont see how running a lower curve hurts the deck's gameplan at all... I have not been having mana issues with the deck with only 3 lands that dont produce colored mana...

Wastelock is a bitch for anything with a higher curve... Mana denial would hurt a helluva lot more if i added more higj cc spells (i already feel like im running too much)... The additives of both counterbalance and bitterblossom both help the control mu immensely (have you ever had to just deal with the tolens when the opponent wont let you destroy the blossom?) its a pain im the ass for normal control... Especially if they are trying to keep walkers around...

This list was designed to abuse moat, unless nobody noticed... All but 3 of my threats fly, which allows one sided shenanigans.

[whiteshepherdman]

Props on the Moat+Bitterblossom interaction =D i like it, although could bitterblossom become a liability late game? The counter-suite does seem a little light, but if you get cb to land i think you'd have an easy time shutting them out. Moat atm though is also a liability since zoo is liking quasali pridemage. May i suggest -1 standstill, -1 brainstorm +2 spell snare