[Deck] Belcher

[jimirynk]

Has anyone else tried Demigod of revenge in the board?

[elgoff]

As a member of Team CRET creator of Cret Belcher, I can talk for us about this sideboard plan...

Deus of Calamity is used in our side deck right now. Deus first turn is terribly back breaking for you opponant. Better than Demigod and far better from Red Akroma.

[jimirynk]

As a member of Team CRET creator of Cret Belcher, I can talk for us about this sideboard plan...

Deus of Calamity is used in our side deck right now. Deus first turn is terribly back breaking for you opponant. Better than Demigod and far better from Red Akroma.

Deus is outdated tech.
The only real answer for it is one white.
So its effect is useless.

[Phthisisity]

you shouldn't be losing to zoo, spoils or no. you have so many more turns to kill them that you shouldn't even need to cast the spoils. just sit back and kill them the turn before they kill you. we beat any deck not playing blue....end of story.

[Damoxx]

you shouldn't be losing to zoo, spoils or no. you have so many more turns to kill them that you shouldn't even need to cast the spoils. just sit back and kill them the turn before they kill you. we beat any deck not playing blue....end of story.

Truth right there. Even if zoo chant's you, you should have enough time to reload and win.

[beastman]

I just got back from the Star city games 1,000 dollar open, losing 1 game all day, to merfolk when he had force daze and cursecatcher. I still managed to make 10 goblins, but he had 3 lords and other guys to beat me.

My list was:

4 Land grant
4 Simian spirit guide
4 Elvish spirit guide
4 Rite of flame
4 Seething song
4 Desperate ritual
4 Tinder wall
4 Dark ritual
4 Lotus petal
4 Lions eye diamond
4 Chrome mox
4 Burning wish
4 Goblin charbelcher
3 Empty the warrens
3 Manamorphose
1 Taiga
1 Bayou

SB:
4 Xantid swarm
4 Ingot chewer
1 Empty the warrens
1 Duress
1 Infernal tutor
1 Shattering spree
1 Deathmark
1 Diminishing returns
1 Tendrils of agony

[Ozymandias]

2 questions:

1) What were your matchups?
2) Is the IT in the board for those games where you can make 3BR, have burning wish in hand, and two LEDs on the board, so you can fetch Belcher and 1-shot? If not, what is it for? Building 1 storm?

[toor]

2 questions:

1) What were your matchups?
2) Is the IT in the board for those games where you can make 3BR, have burning wish in hand, and two LEDs on the board, so you can fetch Belcher and 1-shot? If not, what is it for? Building 1 storm?

Seconded, plus
3) How good was diminishing returns
4) did u miss not having more duress effects in the board

[beastman]

My MU's were eva green, Zoo, Merfolk, Dredge, and Gearharts latest deck featuring hymns gerrards verdicts, thoughtsiezes and more badness.

Infernal tutor is stupid good, as it builds storm up, to make your goblin wall unstoppable.

I had a game against gearhart where I went off for 8 goblins, and he played double goyf and got a jitte going. I stopped attacking to give myself time to rebuild, and built up about 4 rituals, and B. wish. He hymns me the next turn, and hits 2 rituals. I rip LED, play Rite with 2 in the yard, play seething song, play LED, play wish, crack LED for 3 blue, find returns, draw a fresh 7 with 4 or 5 floating, I have an LED and a wish in hand, play a few more rituals, into wish, crack LED for three black get Infernal tutor tutor for my last B. wish, wish for tendrils, and tendrils for 28. Gearhart was at 24 from jitte life so nothing else would have worked.

So yeah, there are definetely times where you need returns.

[jimirynk]

I had a game against gearhart where I went off for 8 goblins, and he played double goyf and got a jitte going. I stopped attacking to give myself time to rebuild, and built up about 4 rituals, and B. wish. He hymns me the next turn, and hits 2 rituals. I rip LED, play Rite with 2 in the yard, play seething song, play LED, play wish, crack LED for 3 blue, find returns, draw a fresh 7 with 4 or 5 floating, I have an LED and a wish in hand, play a few more rituals, into wish, crack LED for three black get Infernal tutor tutor for my last B. wish, wish for tendrils, and tendrils for 28. Gearhart was at 24 from jitte life so nothing else would have worked.

Was on the edge of my seat reading this post.

[toor]

PLayed in the Mox Tournament Yesterday (50 People. 5 Rounds)
Played:
4 Land grant
4 Simian spirit guide
4 Elvish spirit guide
4 Rite of flame
4 Seething song
4 Desperate ritual
4 Tinder wall
4 Dark ritual
4 Lotus petal
4 Lions eye diamond
3 Chrome mox
4 Burning wish
1 Infernal Tutor
4 Goblin charbelcher
3 Empty the warrens
3 Manamorphose
1 Taiga
1 Bayou

SB:
4 Xantid swarm
3 Ingot chewer
1 Empty the warrens
2 Duress
1 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering spree
1 Deathmark
1 Reverent Silence
1 Tendrils of agony

Went 3-2 facing 5 blue decks:
Rnd 1: COuntertop/Bant/Natural ORder.
2-0
Rnd 2: URw Faeries (daze, FoW, Spellstutter, Vendillion)
2-0
Rnd 3: Landstill
1-2
Rnd 4: Eva Green
2-0
Rnd 5: Countertop 4c
1-2

While the deck was fun, it felt more matchup dependent then anything else I have ever played. Dissapointing finish but I enjoyed myself.

[AcidFiend]

Was on the edge of my seat reading this post.

Same man, that play was epic I loved it :)

I built this deck a couple of years ago and have been playing others since it seemed to stagnate during the the Countertop & Merfolk era. With all the aggro running around I wouldn't mind resurrecting it again. Seems the most common difference between builds is whether to run Spoils/IT MD or not.

Sorry if DoC is old tech, but can anyone post their experiences with it? Seems pretty cool, but when would you bring it in? Does it replace Empty the Warrens when you fear Pyroclasm/Plague/Fallout/etc?

@ toor & beastman:
You both played against a number of blue decks while having 4 Xantid Swarm in your board. Can you elaborate on how it played out for you?

[beastman]

I never drew a swarm. I think the key to getting around blue decks is to go for ETW. They need to counter the exact right ritual to keep you off it, and even then, you sometimes can just make enough extra to go off regardless.

[Blitzbold]

Belcher is one of the decks where Diminishing Returns really shines as a wish target.

[toor]

Long story short this deck is terrible if you expect a decent amount of blue decks.

What I sided in depended on what exactly their blue deck has and if they were competent. Against competent players I would never bring in 4 swarm since they should be expecting it. Instead I bring in a mix of swarm and duress. Against bad players who auto sideboard out their removal I bring in the full set of swarms.

If your opponent has daze but no spell snares, then I take out seething songs. If my opponent has spell snares but no dazes I tend to take out some number of wishes/infernal tutors.

Empty post board is only a really good strategy for merfolk or faerie stompy. Most other blue decks (thresh, landstill, countertop) will have a bunch of sweepers (pyroclasms, ee and deed). In that case you have to try and gauge what answers will be good enough (for example deed on the draw doesn't do it versus 10 goblins, but deed + swords will).

I find the best strategy versus blue decks is often to just hold for a few turns until you can basically go off twice in the same turn if you don't have the disruption early. I especially like any hand with a land.

[kinda]

I was wondering if someone could explain how lion's eye diamond is abused in here...seeing as you can't respond to it with any of your win conditions. Is it just used to activate belcher?

[mogote]

I was wondering if someone could explain how lion's eye diamond is abused in here...seeing as you can't respond to it with any of your win conditions. Is it just used to activate belcher?

You can play Burning Wish and in response activate Lion's Eye Diamond (with the tutor still on the stack). Then, you can use the mana from LED to play whatever you tutored for (Tendrils, EtW, Diminishing Returns...).

[Mikeleroi]

Or in response to a Wish, while it´s on the stack.

Edit: Ops, faster than me :p

[beastman]

It allows you to activate belcher, meaning that you only need to make 4 mana off of rituals in order to go off.

[Ozymandias]

So I guess the sideboarding for blue decks is to cut seething song for Xantid Swarm, and against Chalice decks to cut dark ritual/manamorphose for Ingot Chewer?