[Deck] Pox

[Nekrataal]

This deck went 2nd in a large tournament in Germany. Meta: Surviving Bant, Enchantress, Canadian Thresh, Merfolk, ANT, Some UB Sui List

http://www.is-magic.de/

=> Click "Turniere" on left menu bar
=> In second row "14.11.2009 Legacy-Cup" click on "Legacy-Cup" below the term Siegerdeck (winner decks) in the third column. Click on the "Deck" Link from the deck placed second in the tournament.

Sorry but I feel remorse dragging someone's good work into the open. However for those really interested, the list is a Bgw Pox list which is quite intriguing. At first sight I would play it a great deal differently. On second sight the deck did just that what I thought of some time ago: Adding w and g => and obviously it seems to work out. What also is special about the build is the reduction to just 2 Winconditions (Gigapede, Worm Harvest). I would lie if I say I like it but the result shows that it was sufficient for the games played. At least Gigapede is hard to get rid off except for GY hate. But GY hate seems to wreck the decks Winconditions hard. Worm Harvest never did it main in any of my builds so I really have to go back testing it. I like the usage of EE and StoP for the slots that are freed of winconditions. I also like Tops and Moxes (although I don't play the latter). I also like the Zurans Orb SB.

[neckfire]

has anyone here tried bloodghast?it is very very good.I play dreadstill and it gets around landstill and conterbalance decks.seems like a good inclusion.just an idea.

[Cthuloo]

has anyone here tried bloodghast?it is very very good.I play dreadstill and it gets around landstill and conterbalance decks.seems like a good inclusion.just an idea.

Honestly standstill is definitely not a problem for pox. The deck usually plays 3-4 factories and 3-4 wasteland, in addition to 1-2 Nether Spirit. Changing spirit for ghast can even be for worse, because ghast can't block opponent factories.

However, I tried ghast and was a bit disappointed. The fact that it can't block is not a minor detail, and I often lost to aggro decks where a spirit would have saved my ass. On the other hand it works very well with Cabal Therapy, with a fetch you can easily rip your opponent's hand apart. I am still undecided about it.

[carnifex]

I run 2x ghast alongside nether spirit and necroplasm. I have 1 spirit, 2 plasm, and 2 ghast as my creature base and it's rediculously smooth. It probably helps to mention that there is also 2x entomb in the MD to increase my selection.

The ghasts serve their purpose perfectly - pushing extra damage and keeping the race going. Thus far it has not adversely interfered with nether spirit. Even if they have died simultaniously, landfall is not a remote issue for a crucible pox build and bringing back hasty ghasts is delicious.

It's not meant to replace spirit IMO. And if it begins to clog my GY too often, I'd undoubtedly remove it before spirit. For now though, the function they're meant to serve is being fulfilled quite well without impeding on nether spirit's recursion (maybe a few turns here and there it's return is delayed but my position has been advantageous in all these scenarios anyways).

This is just my experience though, I was VERY wary of trying out 'ghast initially.

[e=mc^2]

I have been interested in Pox for a while and I finally threw together the following janky list:

4x Bloodghast
3x Tombstalker

4x Mox Diamond
4x Innocent Blood
4x Thoughtseize
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Hymn
4x Smallpox
3x Diabolic Edict
3x Pox
3x Crucible

4x Wasteland
4x Factory
4x Urborg
8x Swamp

Mostly I have just been beating up my friend's 'Geddon Stax and BG Deathcloud lists. I feel like I may have a little too much creature destruction and possibly I should replace some of my 2cc spells with sinkholes. On the other hand sink holes are expensive and I could just replace come creature destruction with The Rack since I have so much discard already. I would like to hear what people know Pox think about the deck.

[AcidFiend]

Emc2: with 7 pox effects and bloodghasts you really should run 24 land. Perhaps add 2 swamp and 2 Urami. I think swapping out edict for the Rack is a good idea too.

[Cthuloo]

Well, Stax and Deathcloud are not known for their overwhelming hordes of creatures, however, looking at the list, you still should be fine without the edicts, assumed you don't have to deal with an aggro meta. In that case you could also swicth to duress instead of thoughtseize.

20 lands are definitely not enough, since you also have to support the moxen. I would play no less than 23.

As for the sinkholes: you can definitely play without, focusing your strategy more on hand and board control.

[Illissius]

This looks interesting, and very close to the ways I've been trying to build the deck, except that he managed to cut it down to a coherent set of 60 cards and make top 8 with it. I'd cut something (probably a Crime) for the fourth Top, but that's about the only obvious change I'd make.

[Nekrataal]

This looks interesting, and very close to the ways I've been trying to build the deck, except that he managed to cut it down to a coherent set of 60 cards and make top 8 with it. I'd cut something (probably a Crime) for the fourth Top, but that's about the only obvious change I'd make.

Well substract Spellweaver Helix and you have the deck I already posted some weeks earlier and made 2nd in a large german tournament (> 70 players). Check out post #1341 .

[dorsch]

@Nekrataal and Illissius and anyone else interrested:

I came during testing, more or less independent from you, to a very similar list:
In a nutshell: no top, no helix and less raven's crimes and added Duress, Hymn to Tourach, 2 Entomb as well as 2 Mishras Factories.

I might understand the cutting of hymn, but don't you miss first turn Duress? Is a playset of Raven's Crime really necessary?
When i play versus some type of Aggro or Aggro-Control my main goal is to survive the first 3-6 turns and stabilize. Neither Raven's Crime nor Top help me early game, but Duress and Hymn do.

[Nekrataal]

@Nekrataal and Illissius and anyone else interrested:

I came during testing, more or less independent from you, to a very similar list:
In a nutshell: no top, no helix and less raven's crimes and added Duress, Hymn to Tourach, 2 Entomb as well as 2 Mishras Factories.

I might understand the cutting of hymn, but don't you miss first turn Duress? Is a playset of Raven's Crime really necessary?
When i play versus some type of Aggro or Aggro-Control my main goal is to survive the first 3-6 turns and stabilize. Neither Raven's Crime nor Top help me early game, but Duress and Hymn do.

The problem is if you are going to play 3 colors you have access to much more valuable cards and it is hard to not play everything which is good. I agree that one should play at least 2 Mishra's and less Raven Crime. I think 1 or two is OK. But personally I wouldn't play Duress, not even Thoughtseize necessarily. I would still play Innocent Blood and maybe Thoughtseize SB. Right now I haven't managed to put in Mox and Tops although both are good. Yeah thats the problem too much good stuff. Also Entomb is sick because it searches for almost everything that is valuable: Lands, Finishers (Gigapede), Loam and Top makes you less flinch when you dredg with Loam.

[Cthuloo]

@Nekrataal and Illissius and anyone else interrested:

I came during testing, more or less independent from you, to a very similar list:
In a nutshell: no top, no helix and less raven's crimes and added Duress, Hymn to Tourach, 2 Entomb as well as 2 Mishras Factories.

I might understand the cutting of hymn, but don't you miss first turn Duress? Is a playset of Raven's Crime really necessary?
When i play versus some type of Aggro or Aggro-Control my main goal is to survive the first 3-6 turns and stabilize. Neither Raven's Crime nor Top help me early game, but Duress and Hymn do.

I agree with you. In my experience the deck lives or dies on a first turn thoughtseize/duress. In some versions of the deck I even played a total of 6 duress effects.

As you correctly stated, the deck struggles to stabilize for the first few turns, and needs duress to fight for survival.

Looking at the list above I would probably cut 2 crimes, the helix and one top to fit in 4 duress. Anyway, the list looks interesting, especially the transformational sideboard. I think it's worth a try.

[Illissius]

Another. Very similar to the previous one. 2nd out of 83 ain't bad.

[Nekrataal]

Another. Very similar to the previous one. 2nd out of 83 ain't bad.

That's the list I meant earlier. I didn't know it was on deckcheck.

[Illissius]

Because it only just got on there :).

[Brot_Ohne_Kruste]

Hi guys,

if you are interested in reading a primer about the Bgw Loam Control, here is one: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=15846 . I wrote a german one too, which is twice as long, but I think that this short primer is okay.

Thanks for the interest in that deck :).

Brot Ohne Kruste

[Nekrataal]

Read the primer. It is worth it :D Liked it very much. Since I am from Germany and I actually think we played each other in Bochum (at least I played against this very deck) I am also interested in the german post. If you could point to it this would be great. However, there are a lot of card choices I would like to questions or ask in more detail how others played out. So I really have to prepare a lengthy first reply ;)

[Mr. Fantastic]

I have been interested in Pox for a while and I finally threw together the following janky list:

4x Bloodghast
3x Tombstalker

4x Mox Diamond
4x Innocent Blood
4x Thoughtseize
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Hymn
4x Smallpox
3x Diabolic Edict
3x Pox
3x Crucible

4x Wasteland
4x Factory
4x Urborg
8x Swamp

Mostly I have just been beating up my friend's 'Geddon Stax and BG Deathcloud lists. I feel like I may have a little too much creature destruction and possibly I should replace some of my 2cc spells with sinkholes. On the other hand sink holes are expensive and I could just replace come creature destruction with The Rack since I have so much discard already. I would like to hear what people know Pox think about the deck.

I would definitely play Cursed Scroll over The Rack. Cursed Scroll was an integral part of the deck when last I played it; that was a while ago however.

Beyond that, the only criticism I have of your deck is the criticism I have of a lot of mono black decks using Mishra's Factory—you need BB and BBB early and often and will suffer for want of it. I'd cut at least 2 Factories, preferably 3-4 as well as all 4 Urborgs since you're just opening yourself up to Wasteland for no real reason. Sure, you have Crucible but do you really want to lose access to BBB on the crucial turn against aggro? Also, if you're using Crucible and Bloodghast, why not use Swamp fetches?

[Temanaras]

Ok, I have two questions:
1) why Thoughtseize? I know everyone loves it, but with pox, small pox, innocent blood, and edicts, is the 2 life really worth it? I feel like in this deck evey life counts. Would duress not be better ion those spots?

2)Megrim, I have not seen it anywhere and I am wondering why. This makes smallpox go from 1 to 3 damage, you duress/thoughsize become a 2 damage nuke, cabal therapy if played right becomes at minimum a 2 nuke. In a deck where you opponent is going to be loosing alot of cards, why not make them loose health in tandem.

[Droxis]

Ok, I have two questions:
1) why Thoughtseize? I know everyone loves it, but with pox, small pox, innocent blood, and edicts, is the 2 life really worth it? I feel like in this deck evey life counts. Would duress not be better ion those spots?

2)Megrim, I have not seen it anywhere and I am wondering why. This makes smallpox go from 1 to 3 damage, you duress/thoughsize become a 2 damage nuke, cabal therapy if played right becomes at minimum a 2 nuke. In a deck where you opponent is going to be loosing alot of cards, why not make them loose health in tandem.

Thoughtseize is rather handy in fighting swarming decks since it can keep their creature level manageable for your non-targeted removal.

Megrim costs too much for too little. It does nothing to disrupt your opponent and does not even come on-line until after some of your starting discard. We want everything in the deck to dick with the opponent, keeping them off balance long enough to make a kill.