Alright it took me a while but now I am a believer in elspeths power. On the other hand I love humility and WoG so its really hard for me to find space for the 4 drops. All three cards have tremendous power and I cant decide where to split. So I think for now wrath stays a 2 of and humility and elspeth can split 1/1. I would love comments for different splits considering my deck. And no I dont want more 4 c cost like FOF. I like the flow of my deck (when my spells dont get countered of course :)
1cc// 2 sensei's
4 spell snare
4 swords
4 brainstorm
2cc// 3 standstill
3 counterspell
3 e explosives (likely)
3cc// 1 crucible
2 cunning wish
4cc// 2 WoG
1 humility
1 elspeth
5cc// 4 force of will
2 decree of justice
land // 4 tundra
3 polluted
3 flooded
1 scrub
1 underground
4 islands
3 plains
4 mishras
1 wasteland
Maybe I could squeeze 1 more 4 drop. Maybe drop a DoJ?
side// 2 extirpate
2 pulse
1 tormods
1 path
1 enlightened tutor
1 aura of silence
1 echoing truth
3 engineered plague
1 cop red
1 wing shards
1 return to dust
Obviously you still don´t understand the true power of her as you ALWAYS want her. She´s just win. Always. I´d probably cut 1 Counterspell or the Crucible since it´s pretty random to get 1 CoW and 1 Wasteland going.
Just go for 1 DustBowl or cut it completlty in the favour of Academy Ruins as you will rarely play control mirrors.
DCI: 68 10 43 34Originally Posted by Mordel
won a small local event this weekend.
same basic list as before. changes as follows:
mb:
-1 crucible
-1 counterspell
+1 spell snare (fourth)
+1 path2 exile
sb:
-1 path (down to 1 in the board again)
+1 tormods (1/1 split. heavy dredge meta)
+1 e plague (not sure what i cut.)
r1. bloodghast dredge (obv led-less)
g1. force removing wish to counter a breakthrough. he goes off slow from there. top into humility wins it with an ee popping a soldier token during a draw step to destroy 3 bridges at a crucial point.
i side in 4 plague 1 tutor 1 path 1crypt 1 relic 1 pate
g2. he mulls to five. still gets a decent starting hand but lacks dredgers. sees double bloodghast die to e.p. which he chains eot into therapy on his turn. then therapies double force out of my hand. i p2e both ghasts and crush my way in a tempo strategy. barely finish him by popping disk at his eot. killing his narc. pumping a fac with elspeth and swinging for lethal.
r2. 8manland faerie/wizard.dec (with vial)
g1. dustbowl and steady control wins this match-up.... in fourty minutes on a regular basis. spell snare is golden as well. and so i ended up drawing that hand. and win. decree for four tokens and then for five wins the matchup at 3 life.
g2. were 5 minutes away from time so all i have to do is stall. i side in normal plagues path and tutor, but since its close pulse and pate. i am succesfull.
r3. eva green (maindeck x4 pate)
g1. he sinkhole and wastelands me to oblivian leaving me with a basic island and a top in play. from there he misses creature drops and i turn a 3rd pate (mishra, decree, elspeth) into a plus by ripping the next 9 land drops one by one with a standstill break and top. eventually his threats mean nothing and i set up win condition 8/8 (eternal dragon) and pummel him dead.... fuck u michael. fuck u...... (i hate that its sooo good.)
g2.
my deck performs better and i draw basic lands/ spell snares/ and stp effects. he casts choke for which i eot fetch scrub, plainscycle dragon fortundra, mainphase ee3 wipe. elspeth seals it several turns later.
r4. 4c thresh UGwr splash (very much like supreme blue)
g1. he obviously hasn't played the match-up because he sounds ill of confidence. he casts shackles. i cast still. he breaks it a few turns later with a top. i respond to top with wish for ray of distortion. counterspell his top as hes low on cards (hes mana flooded) 2-3 rounds after establishing true board control i cast elspeth + disk in the same turn. protect it and eot opp. turm 8 divinity cycle decree, elspeths final, pop disk, scoop.
side in 1 path 1 blast
g2. he plays less then stellar by casting double ee @2. i am ok as ive sided 2 standstills. i answer some stuff. snare a balance and land an elspeth. for which he has no outs. gg.
r5. mono red gobbos.
g1. he gets a smooth start on the play. vial piledrive r chieften ringleader. i freeze him with humility. solve the board situation at 4 life with elspeth mishra. slow roll win.
i side in 4 plague 1 tutor 1 blast 1 path
g2. he gets a slow hand but catches me off gaurd with blood moon. which takes him all the way as i dont see ee in time. i end up getting stuck with 3x plague in hand.....
g3. i lead with top. he plays piledriver but is stuck on 2x badland. i dustbowl them away. he gets the other 2 and ends up in an aweful board position of mountain piledriver meeter < 5 land (2 basics) and a plague. triple plague elspeth wins it outright in the end. ( he was playing the 5/3 and i had nothing else to play?
final thoughts:
- counterbalance has no place in my meta. (in landstill sideboard)
- 4 plague is oh soo good. 1 pat/ tutor is also excellent)
- used every card in my sideboard besides pate and counterbalance.
- dragon is too good in the 3rd decree slot. it stays.
- 4th snare 1 path was much stronger for me then 3 snare 3 counterspell.
The top 8 looked something like this:
1st UWb Team Awesome's Wish Still
2nd Mono Red Gobbos
3rd Buzzys 8 man-land faerie sly
4th Supreme blue
5th Bloodghast Dredge
6th ?
7th ?
8th ?
Last edited by mossivo1986; 12-07-2009 at 01:51 PM.
I basically agree with everything you said mossivo. Counterbalance in the side is weak, 4 spell snare is super good, and engineered plague rocks (humility main doesnt hurt either) I am going to play one dust bowl and a second humility for now and cut back to one senseis. Still, I would like to squeeze 1 more elspeth because 2 would be nice but I think 3 would be over kill. I dropped eternal d. completly not because its not a good card but because 24 lands is good and I think everyone will drop him eventually for new cards (elspeth) and because I cant find space for the monster. Landstill is hard to play but when you comback from 2 life and win it feels pretty awesome.
Exactly my thoughts. I too play 2 Humility, 2 Elspeth, 4 Snares, and 4 plagues in SB. I use Tolaria West as my 24th land, it doesn't hurt to assemble explosives/ruins lock, or get Dust bowl more consistently :)
Its only weak because the decks that counterbalance sides against arn't present in my meta-game. You might not realize this because you weren't there but my meta is very much in developement and as players start fine tuning their style and skill, counterbalance might later become a neccesity. I did enough testing to know that it's simply too good not to play period, but it might be alittle too advanced right now for my current meta. The only deck i'd side it in against is eva green, but I dont even know if that holds warrent. I'll have to test against it and find out.I basically agree with everything you said mossivo. Counterbalance in the side is weak.
In my testing humility is only needed as a 1 of. Top is almost a mandatory 2-3 of (I recommend 3 because its top and it's just so damn unbeatable.)4 spell snare is super good, and engineered plague rocks (humility main doesnt hurt either) I am going to play one dust bowl and a second humility for now and cut back to one senseis.
Two has been perfect for me. I've done incredibly well with 2. and trust me the first time you indestructable disk lock your opponents out of a game, youll see why two is the perfect number.Still, I would like to squeeze 1 more elspeth because 2 would be nice but I think 3 would be over kill.
23 plus 3 top and e dragon is perfect for me. The only thing i'd really warn on is do not play tolaria west. I tested the card for two years. its not worth it.I dropped eternal d. completly not because its not a good card but because 24 lands is good and I think everyone will drop him eventually for new cards (elspeth) and because I cant find space for the monster. Landstill is hard to play but when you comback from 2 life and win it feels pretty awesome.
Sweet music to my ears. You and I have been fighting over dragon since GP Chicago.
I love when my sb is spot on.
Co-Founder of Team Awesome - I heard Randy Buehler say a while back that good players give themselves the most number of turns to find the answer.
The Source on MTGO - Predator8785 and RockOut
@Massivo
r1. bloodghast dredge (obv led-less)
g1. force removing wish to counter a breakthrough. he goes off slow from there. top into humility wins it with an ee popping a soldier token during a draw step to destroy 3 bridges at a crucial point.
Is ritgh that bridge says creature nontoken?
You re my heroĦ
A question:
My plan vs merfolks come from the 4 E.Plague from the sideboard and taken out some 1 standstill, 1 Elspeth(having 1 left), 1 decree, 1 cunin w.(having 2 left).
Well which are your merfolks siding plan.?
Thanks
Bridge reads as follows:
The non-token portion is only for the dredge player's creatures.
directly from my player notes
hope that helps
Well, yes it helps, but do you play another draw engine apart from landstill, because althoutgh its better for them to take advantage from standstill it's stilll aour unique provider of card advantage, at least in my build,
also disk + elspeth is they key or the goal? and no humility + elspeth?
the idea is that counterspell is as useless as standstill with vial in play, however standstill is potentially much more strong. maybe the unique reason you prefere to keep them is because it can handle standstills from them, i that reason enough?
you obviously have never had an indestructible disk....
What does it mean?
and the other answer?
Yeah, indestructible disk is your goal in a deck where you run one copy of a disk, two copies of elspeth and most things are decided before you can even cast the mentioned spells, let alone assemble Elspeth's ultimate. Its certainly a 60-40 match now, because you know the secret of the disk. Thank you Captain Obvious! And Humility+EE locks Mutavaults, didn't I mention that already?
Tinefol I expected so much better from you. If you want me to walk you through the matchup with my model i'll gladly do it. Give me a call. Sent the phone number to u via pm
I've never lost a tournament game to merfolk. Just play tight... if there's one thing the deck can't handle it's a deck with a ton of removal drawing a ton of cards and that's what we do. Counter their standstills game 1 unless you have a trick up your sleeve and you should be fine. It's like any other aggro matchup but with fewer relevant creatures and more counterspells.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
How is that goal even realistic?
Have YOU ever had an indestructible disk against Merfolk in tournament play?
I full-heartedly agree with Tinefol here.
I agree that Disk is no argument at all. If you have an indestructible elspeth (technically, all but Elspeth), you should have won the game already, or do so very soon. I really can't think of a situation where an indestructible disk solves problems that Elspeth cannot handle. Why on earth are we even discussing this?
DCI L1 Judge, admin of www.BeNeLegacy.nl and member of Team Nijmegen (T.N.T.=Team Nijmegen Tendrils).
Moss loves the indestructable disk. I've never had a use for it (strictly a win-more play imo), but it seems to work well for him.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
I know I used disk for about a month worth of tournaments and my general thought was it was just another artifact I could recur with ee. When I was able to get both disk and elspeth in play I was so far ahead it didn't matter if I had disk because I was on the path to victory regardless. It was also very nice to go eot wish for e tutor for disk and set up a "wrath" effect when I had enough mana/life to do so. I currently run crucible where the disk slot used to be and I couldn't be happier.
Co-Founder of Team Awesome - I heard Randy Buehler say a while back that good players give themselves the most number of turns to find the answer.
The Source on MTGO - Predator8785 and RockOut
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