[Deck] Zoo

[DCTopTeam]

Thanks for the report, and congrats! I was about to ask if you've thought about dropping Ape, since he's generally considered the worst 1-drop we have. However, from your reports he seemed to be consistently awesome. Was the power of 2 not an issue as the game went into turn 3+?

Other questions: What would you have taken out if you had the third Knight? How often did opponents blow up your libraries, given that they're your only ench/art?

Especially since you run Apes and Libraries, I think cutting the canopies may be worth a shot.

I tried the Lynx but did not like it. Im a fan of the one-drop so IDK if id drop the Apes really. The power 3 was not an issue I swing him regardless and I Bolt the opponets bigger creatures. Even if it is 2-1 its fine with me as long as a fatty gets out of the way.

-1 Chain + 1 Knight given the chance.

Re the Libraries. They didnt blow the Library, maybe they underestimated the card

[DCTopTeam]

Maybe id try cutting the 1 Canopy for another Mesa. IDK maybe. Ill try.

[keys]

I can see Canopy being cut in a meta without land destruction, but where I play about half the games I see Wasteland or Stifle, and Sinkhole is played by a dedicated few (Eva Green got a bone thrown its way with Nighthawk). So many games I would've had to mull a 1-lander but the Canopy saved it. Often my white source gets wasted and I topdeck Canopy to cast a game winning Path or Helix (which has surpassed Fireblast as the best burn spell after Bolt/Chain, imo). Other times I'm just as happy to start popping them as soon as I hit the 4 land mark.

At a local tourney yesterday I went 5-0 then scooped to my friend round 6 (he was playing gobs) so he could place higher in the swiss+1. My matchups were Merfolk, Full English Breakfast, Survival Elves w/ NO, Eva Green, and Burning Bridge.

Here's the list I played:

1 Figure of Destiny (seemed okay as a 1-of but nothing spectacular, this deck has harsh tempo requirements already)
3 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Grim Lavamancer (MVP creature)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Woolly Thoctar
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix (MVP burn spell)
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
1 Windswept Heath
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest

SB:
4 Price of Progress (expected to see Lands.dec and lots of Supreme Blue)
3 Krosan Grip (expected Stax, CBTop, and some chalice aggro decks)
2 Jitte
2 Choke
2 Relic
1 Crypt
1 Gaddock Teeg

[sauce]

ive replaced 2 library with 2 magma jet for testing purposes, so far ive been liking it... has anyone else tried this before?

[Gibsonmac]

yeah, a long time ago... thought it sucked, library is a card that i'm always happy to draw

[Valtrix]

The ability to play library, get three new cards next turn, then see three more new cards the turn after is absolutely game breaking. Magma jet does not compare at all to that.

Also Lion, thanks for starting to test some cards I've wanted to see for awhile :P

[Curby]

Yeah Library does a lot more than Magma Jet does. To even try to pull close you'd probably want to run 4 in place of some other burn. If you're like jazzykat they may make an on-color stand-in for Lightning Helix. But ultimately Scry 2 isn't the same as Draw 2 (you're drawing one anyway), and the mana commitment and loss of draw power isn't worth the 2 damage when we'd rather have a more stable way of drawing into our more efficient damage sources.

[memnarch]

Also a splash of black for DC run with vial has been working well for me. It gives you engineered plague for the side as well.

[Curby]

DC is used in Domain Zoo along with Tribal Flames, but it pretty much instantly folds to nonbasic hate. Vial seems to be more suited to a slower deck than Zoo, and therefore doesn't belong. In the end an on-color Confidant would be better than Library, but stretching the manabase so far is too dangerous for many players. Out of curiosity, what's your full list?

[memnarch]

19 land total
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Bayou
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Savannah

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Neacatl
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path To Exile
3 Chain Lightning
4 AEther Vial

side:
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Gaddock Teeg
3 Krosan Grip
4 Engineered Plague

This deck is such a low curve its made for DC. Also I haven't found vial to be bad in the least. It can surprise an opponent forcing worse decisions. And an early trump to control magic. Not to mention if you do get mana screwed its another option. Its something that gives you outs against otherwise tougher match ups. Merfolk is tough and it helps with that to a degree. Vial is one of those cards over the years you just kind of know through experience how good it is. And in this deck it works you set it to 1 or 2 its real simple and quick and makes sure DC hits the board too. Its part of what makes Merfolk a GREAT deck its part of why goblins is a GREAT deck why not use it?

[Curby]

Vial certainly has its uses, but I still don't think it belongs. The loss of a full turn seems too significant. Others probably have more well-considered explanations.

Wasteland is part of what makes Merfolk a great deck, and Siege Gang Commander is part of what makes Goblins a great deck, but we don't run those even though we could. Burn is made much more consistent by Magma Jet yet we don't use it either. Your closing arguments are irrelevant, as decks have different goals and therefore have different expectations when considering cards.

EDIT: Ever consider a Doran or two? Helps Goyf and Ape which overcomes its hurting Confidant, and takes the place of big beaters #5-6 in the RGW decks.

[memnarch]

@kirbysdl: AEther vial evens itself out tempo wise most of the time though, depending on if you happen to get a near creature-less hand which rarely happens. This deck takes 4 or more turns to kill usually. So you invest one for the vial and by turn two you already get that investment back by being able to drop a 1CC for free so it empties your hand more quickly. It can even be a tempo increase at times because you are able to drop twice as many creatures as normal. I find that the benefits it gives me in versatility against otherwise tougher match ups is worth it to run. Although the original function was for DC and not having to splash too heavily to support him.

[Tacosnape]

Vial only makes Goblins and Merfolk good because card draw is what makes Aether Vial good. And don't even begin to attempt the argument that Dark Confidant provides the card draw. Relying on 4 creatures in your deck that only have 1 toughness and have to live a turn to even cantrip at the price of life loss doesn't even remotely hold a candle to Goblins' Matron/Ringleader engine or Merfolk's Standstill/Silvergill setups.

I see the argument for Dark Confidant, but Vial's a weak link in my opinion.

[Valtrix]

I've played with vial before, and it's just not worth it. You really don't get any benefit, because unlike merfolk we don't have other cards (standstill) to break it and unlike goblins we don't curve out the same. In addition, it really doesn't increase your tempo. As such you get nebulous gains like having more options against wasteland and making opposing standstills less useful...However, those minimal gains do not compensate for the fact that drawing vial replaces drawing another creature, land, or other spell, all of which are much more useful than vial.

[Curby]

I've played with vial before, and it's just not worth it. You really don't get any benefit, because unlike merfolk we don't have other cards (standstill) to break it and unlike goblins we don't curve out the same.

And unlike Slivers and D&T we don't have critters to Vial in at instant speed to counter removal, pump creatures, etc. There aren't alternative casting requirements like those of Serra Avenger or Silvergill Adept to cheat. There are plenty of reasons to run Vial, but they don't really apply here.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

I top 8ed a 33 man last Wednesday. I had to keep Sylvan Library in because my meta is becoming more control oriented. I wanted to put Jitte back in the maindeck but i guess it'll just stay in the side for now.. after i just got a foil one too :(

Also my deck is almost foil now. Pretty freaking sexy. The only maindeck spells not foil are my bolts and they're foreign blackbordered.

But yeah, Aether Vial sucks in this deck I'm pretty sure it's been established since last summer or so. Jeez i remember those flames haha.

I wish this deck had more outs to RWM other than 2for1ing yourself or PTE

[MMogg]

I top 8ed a 33 man last Wednesday. I had to keep Sylvan Library in because my meta is becoming more control oriented. I wanted to put Jitte back in the maindeck but i guess it'll just stay in the side for now.. after i just got a foil one too :(

Also my deck is almost foil now. Pretty freaking sexy. The only maindeck spells not foil are my bolts and they're foreign blackbordered.

But yeah, Aether Vial sucks in this deck I'm pretty sure it's been established since last summer or so. Jeez i remember those flames haha.

I wish this deck had more outs to RWM other than 2for1ing yourself or PTE

Depending how prevalent RWM is, you can try secret tech like Char or even Vines of Vastwood/Giant Growth/random pump spell. If he had just one more power you could Reprisal. I know those are suboptimal choices normally, but if you find the games you're losing are because of RWM in particular, you can try out some of the options and see if they work.

Please post your deck in the pimp Legacy thread.

[from Cairo]

I wish this deck had more outs to RWM other than 2for1ing yourself or PTE

One can always run a few additional Swords to Plowshares, main or SB, if the amount of 4+ toughness creatures dictates a need for more non-burn removal. Swords can be more counter productive than Path, but stalling out on the ground because of a bunch of 3/4s and 4/5s is much more of an issue than them gaining a few life.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Depending how prevalent RWM is, you can try secret tech like Char or even Vines of Vastwood/Giant Growth/random pump spell. If he had just one more power you could Reprisal. I know those are suboptimal choices normally, but if you find the games you're losing are because of RWM in particular, you can try out some of the options and see if they work.

Please post your deck in the pimp Legacy thread.

Yeah i took swords out of the sideboard because i don't really need it anymore. RWM doesn't get run in my meta at all, i was just speaking for a more general perspective. The few games I've had to play against it was pretty much miserable especially when they just get Exalted from a Noble Hierarch.

I've thought about posting it sometime, but it would just get laughed at seeing as it's all English copies of cards. Even though i prefer English foils because i like being able to read them, plus financial issues pimping things, most people just dump a grand into their deck or jap foils.

[jandax]

I scanned through most of the thread, and have something to throw out there:

since Zendikars spoiling, has anyone done any playing with Goblin Guide in for Kird Ape? I think the drawback is huge in this format, and against a Top deck it isnt worth the 2 damage. Maybe Ive answered my question already, but then again I havent done anything with it so I dont know for sure.

Also, from personal experience, having 10`-12 burn spells is better than not. I scrubbed out of a ~60 man tournament, mostly do to poor play, but I often found myself wishing I had another set of burn in the deck to finish off. I lost three matches with opps under 6 life, wishing I had chain lightning or fireblast or something for those final points.

One more question, is domain zoo even more suseptable to wasteland than normal zoo? Or does one simply get Bob out and play through wastelands on their black sources?