[Deck] Survival

[beastman]

In short, Surival decks are becoming a "deal with me now or you'll be hurting" card.

I'm stoked.

As opposed to how they used to be, if I untap I win.....

[hungryboi]

Played yesterday at SCG LA with Survival. I lost to Goblins, Aggro Loam, (piloted by Luis Scott Vargas level 5 judge), and Storm. I may have had some misplays against Storm which cost me game 3. Ended with 4-3-1 record which was pretty bad. Bad job on my part not anticipating storm at the tournament when it was nearly 10% of the Meta. No way I was going to beat goblins with my draws and Loam was pretty close game. I may post my DL up later but I don't really see much reason since it lost :P. Maybe get some critiquing.

[Xenocide]

I also played Survival yesterday at SCGLA I went 5-3, I lost to Red tempo-ish thresh, UBGW Landstill, and a UBr Faeries deck, and won against Zoo, Dreadstill, Ichorid, and 2 more I can't remember at the moment.

I made quite a few play mistakes over the day (most notably vs. dreadstill and all the matchups I lost), I think that if I had played better I could have easily been the victor in the red tempo-ish thresh, and faeries match-ups.

I'll try to get a tournament report up sometime this week.

[Xenocide]

EDIT: This killed my formatting, you're going to have to deal with it for now. I'm going to bed.

Star City Games LA Tournament
Legacy
Jan 3, 2010
Turn out: 150ish players

Pre tournament:
I recently re-introduced my friend Drew into MTG, he hasn't played since Mercadian Masques. Long story short, I talked him into going to the tournament with me. He played elves w/ Natural Order (he asked to borrow a deck, and I decided that a more straight forward deck would suit him best since he's a novice), and I played GBWr Survival. We stayed up late figuring out sideboards. No crazy shenanigans to talk about here.

Decklist:
Creatures:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Shriekmaw
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Anger
1 Genesis
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

Spells:
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Mirri's Guile
1 Sensei's Diving Top

Lands:
3 Forest
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
3 Choke
3 Krosan Grip
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Path to Exile
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt

Gameday:
We got up at 6:30 to be down in LA by 8:00, I picked up a Magic Show playmat- not that I'd ever heard of it (I've never owned a playmat either, they're awesome! Now I just need to get mine altered), new sleves for both decks, a Gaddock Teeg to finish off my SB, and 2 Thorn of Amethysts for Drew's board. We had time to kill, so we walked around the area and I found a bunch of old magic friends from Santa Barbara and we hung-out with them for the rest of the day. After a bit of scouting, I was really worried, beause there looked to be tons of storm combo and 43 lands (2 players right next to me)- ouch, two terrible match ups (43 Lands is a bad mu w/o Magus of the Moon). It turns out that there were only 3 there, I just sat next to them all.

First of all I didn't take great notes, and my memory is a bit fuzzy, any opponents feel free to correct any mistakes in my recollection.

Round 1 vs Red Tempo-ish Thresh (Ryan):
Ryan seemed like an awesome guy, one of the friendliest opponents all day. As a side note, I don't think he played fire/ice, which seems odd to me, but I don't play tempo thresh.
G1 - I don't remember a whole lot about this game, but he stifles/wastes a couple lands, but I land an early Mirri's Guile, and that finds me all the lands/removal/threats I need. I end up getting there w/ Goyf.
Sideboard:
-3 ?
+3 Choke
As a side note this was a huge mistake, I should have sided in both my relics and crypt (and left out choke), to buy time against goyfs and geese. As it was I never got to 3 mana in either of the post-board games, and it wasn't until my last turn alive of G3 that I realized my boarding mistake while staring at a useless choke stuck in my hand.
G2 - He stifles/wastes my lands away, I have 1 Bird and 1 land and I either never draw, or he counters anything that costs 2, and he gets there w/ threshed goose who was immune to all my removal, I think I have two chokes in my hand at the end of this game.
G3 - I get an early Mirri's Guile, and figure I'm set, since it usually finds me all the land I need, but he stifles my only fetch and after being in top-deck mode for about 5-6 turns (I saw 8-9 cards off the top b/c of Mirri's Guile), I find no lands while being beat to death by goose, this game would have gone much differently if the dead choke in my hand was a relic/crypt instead, since I would have had a LOT longer to find more land.

1-2 (0-1) A little bit of bad luck and a pretty big mistake, not a great way to start off the tourney.

Round 2 vs UBwg Landstill (Ben):
G1 - I think win the die roll, i play land -> go, he fetches for Underground Sea -> Ponder, I figure he's either playing storm combo or landstill, I drop a land -> goyf, next turn he fetches -> Underground Sea, I drop another goyf, he drops a fetch and fetches for Tundra, at this point I have a 3rd goyf in hand and wonder if I should try to put more pressure on the board (if hes combo), or if I should hold it back (if hes control) - I decide to drop my 3rd goyf, on his turn he drops pernicious deeds and pops it the turn after, my goyfs were only 2/3 and I couldn't recover after deed.
Sideboard:
-3 Swords to Plowshares
+3 Choke
G2 - I remember having a fairly weak hand, but decided to keep anyway. I lost this game horribly-- he ended the game at 20 life.

0-2 (0-2) I wasn't going to drop from the tournament, even if I went 0-8, I need all the practice I can get, and since I'm not a huge fan of drafting and don't have an EDH deck I'm wasn't planning on entering any side events. Regardless, starting off 0-2 really downed my spirits.

Round 3 vs Zoo (Louis):
Louis seemed like he was either new to legacy, or just a casual player. He had never seen Survival before.
G1 - At some point early I Therapy (using flashback) away 2x Jitte from his hand (I see KotR x2 and Lightning Helix), he ends up beating me to 2 life with doods while the two knights are stuck in his hand (he was stuck on 2 land) before I stabilize w/ Survival (this is the first time I've even drawn it all tournament), I have to play 2x Finks (he PtE's both of them) and luckily top deck a StP so I can send a goyf farming in response to burn. I end the game at 1 life (but another StP in hand + goyf in play). It was a very close game, but somehow, I have the feeling that I would have lost if he was a slightly better player, or had a better build. He played Eternal Witness main and got back a PtE rather than burn at 1 point (I was at 4 life), I'm not sure it would have made the difference though.
Sideboard:
-3 Thoughtseize
+3 Path to Exile
G2 - I stabilize at 8 life with a removal heavy hand, and he top decks a 3rd burn spell for the win, just before I'm able to go crazy with survival.
G3 - I stabilize at 10 life with a removal heavy hand when time is called, and he goes from 14 to -1 in one turn (1 goyf + 2 hasty goyfs tend to do that), during turn 3 of time.

2-1 (1-2) He was playing an unoptimized list (no basics + Eternal Witness + Jitte main, and if he was playing Price of Progress side he never drew them). If his list had been a little better, I don't think I would have won the match up.

Round 4 vs StifleNaught (Guillermo)
Guillmero was a nice guy, and a great opponent.
We get deck checked, and I didn't know this before this tourney, but you aren't able to keep other cards in your deck box because they think you might be cheating. The round before Drew got a game loss, and almost removed from the tournament because of it, so I had removed all the extra crap from my deck box before that round. Phew! This was by far my longest game, we only played one game and it barely ended before turn 5 of extra turns.

G1 - I Thoughtseize him early seeing naught, stifle, force, and daze (i take stifle since I am a little land light), I get down a SDT. Around turn 4ish he resolves naught, I Therapy away Force and swords Naught (he goes to 31). After this I resolve Survival against an empty board on his side, but I keep FORGETTING to return Squee because I keep taking a short-cut w/ SDT during his end-step and skip over my upkeep (I do this 4 FUCKING TURNS IN A ROW. Yeah, I'm bad at magic). He eventually draws Trinket Mage -> EE and blows up Survival + Goyf (which I had been keeping back to fend off 2x Factory), I grab Eternal Witness in response (I also had one in my hand at this point). Next turn I play Eternal Witness -> Survival (I didn't want to tap-out to play survival b/c he played daze and had a top in play), so the turn after I play survival -> go (I'm going to finally start survivally shenanigans during his turn), he draws another Trinket Mage -> EE and I tap out doing Anger -> Genesis -> something (feigning a mistake) so he pops EE so I can't grab another witness (I was planning on using the witness I'd been saving to get it back and start my crushing), during my turn I draw survival, play it and drop a dood. On his turn he drops counter balance and locks me out of all my 2 drops (at this point I really wished I had main deck Wickerbough Elder), so I drop a Fink. He assembles another stifle + naught, and my only out is to pray he doesn't have a 3 drop on top since there is no way I'll resolve swords, so I genesis up Big Game Hunter and madness BGH into play, he spins top -> fetches -> spins again........ IT RESOLVES. Yay, that was my only chance. At this point we are the only players left playing since we got a 10 minute time extension because we got deck-checked so there are lots of players anxiously waiting for us to finish. I end up beating him to death with 2 Kitchen Finks + Witness on turn 3 of extra turns. I ended the game with 7 life from Factory + Trinket Mage beats. Also,there was a big 2x Factories + 2x Trinket Mage vs Goyf + Swords battle somewhere during this game that I don't remember all the specifics of.

1-0 (2-2) This was an exhausting and very frustrating game. I deserved to lose for my terrible play. After the round he laughed at me tapping-out and acting like it was a mistake, that made me feel good.

Round 5 vs Ravager Affinity (Luke)
G1 - He wins the die roll and goes artifact land -> vial, I Thoughseize him, he vial -> ornithopter in response, and reveals (plating, enforcer, bolt, ravager) I take plating since he only has 1 mana and I have a StP + Pridemage in hand, so I'm not scared. On his turn I think he goes land -> ravager, I play StP + Mirri's Guile. He does some stuff, long story short is that Guile finds me another Pridemage + 2x Eternal Witness and he concedes at 14 life.
Sideboard:
-2 Shriekmaw
-2 Finks
-2 discard?
+3 Grip
+3 PtE
G2 - He mulls to 5. I kill everything he plays. He concedes when he's in topdeck and I still have a pretty full grip + Mirri's Guile.

2-0 (3-2) This round I got pretty lucky. My first hand was pretty ridiculous vs him + his mull to 5 g2.

Round 6 vs Dragon Stompy (Shaun)
Shaun was a very nice opponent, hopefully I'll see him at the Knight Ware tournament later this month.
G1 - I lose the die roll and mull to 5. He goes Ancient Tomb, Chrome Mox -> Magus of the Moon, I have only non-basic lands, and that's all she wrote for this game. On to game two!
Sideboard:
-2 Swords (No good against chalice)
-1 discard?
+3 Krosan Grip
G2 - I drop land -> birds, he has a slow hand (I don't remember if he mulled). He doesn't draw hate. I drop Survival. I win.
G3 - See game 2.

2-1 (4-2)

Round 6 vs Ichorid (Alex)
G1 - I win the die roll. I first turn Thoughtseize seeing (Ichorid x2, Cabal Therapy, Thug, Moeba, Grave Troll, LED) I take LED. He draws for his turn and passes, I drop Birds + Mirri's Guile, guile finds me Swords + Pridemage. He gets some bad dredges and I keep him off Bridge tokens by saccing Pridemage to kill Mirri's Guile, then the following turn Eternal Witnessing it back. He doesn't do a whole lot, I drop some big goyfs and win.
Sideboard:
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Anger
-1 BGH?
-1 Cabal Therapy (I kept in 3 therapies over seizes to give me more sac outlets)
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Tormod's Crypt
+3 Gaddock Teeg
G2 - He starts off with Putrid Imp -> discard stuff, but I have a relic in my opener which stops him for a while, and between swords, teeg, and pridemage, I'm able to keep him off bridges/graveyard. Both game 1 and game 2 I ended w/ 17 life.

2-0 (5-2)

Round 7 vs UBr Faeries (Kit)
I had never looked in the Faeries thread, otherwise I would have known about this deck, as it was I had no idea what to expect.
G1 - This was a close game, but I cant remember all the specifics (so take everything with a grain of salt). I Thoughtseize early seeing (terminate x2, tombstalker x2, spellstutter, jitte, land) taking jitte. He has Sprite in play (which I misread and walked a Mirri's Guile into it). He starts beating for 1. Not much happens for a turn or 2 and my life total is around 12 when he drops Bitterblossom. I drop survival but it takes me a bit to get rid of blossom (he gets 2 tokens first). I have no good answers to small black flying critters, so I have to race. The rest of the match is pretty exciting, but I don't remember it exactly. I end up dropping finks, killing a tombstalker with BGH, Shriekmawing his Sprite, Therapying away 3x Terminate, saccing a Fink to put me to 6, in case he played lightning bolt (he had 2 tokens still), and I killed him the next turn by returning a taiga (he destroyed w/ wasteland) with Eternal Witness for haste, and beating in for just enough.
Sideboard:
-2 Swords
-1 Shriekmaw
-2 ?
+2 Krosan Grip
+3 Choke
G2 - He starts the game w/ leyline in play. He drops Relic of Progentius. Then plays bitterblossom + jitte, I kill jitte and blossom (he gets a token or 2 first), he plays another leyline. My goyfs sit back as 0/1, the witness in my hand cant grab anything, and when he kills Finks they stay dead. I lose.
G3 - I have 1 land + 1 BoP in my starting, I decide to keep it, since I also have Mirri's Guile + Choke x2. I go land -> BoP go. He does nothing, I top deck another BoP play thoughtseize (he brainstorms in response, revealing: spell pierce, spell stutter and something else) I take the "something else", then drop BoP. He does nothing. And, here's where I decide to do a whole lot of stupid (again). When I read spell pierce, I was thinking Spell Snare (so I thought my Choke would resolve w/o issue), I draw thoughtseize then play Choke into Spell Pierce -> fail, then since he only has 1 untapped land I play Mirri's Guile -> Spell pierce -> doh. On his turn he passes, I draw land play choke -> force of will (removing sprite) <sigh, brainstorm hid spell pierce + FoW>. I then look at my hand and see I have a Thoughtseize that I should have baited with -> doh. My life total drops to 0 over about 7+ turns and I draw 7 land (yes, I top decked 3 birds, a thoughtseize, and 8+ lands (I even fetched for the shuffle and cycled 2x Horizon canopy).

1-2 (5-3) Kit goes on to place 18th, he went 5-2-1, so I might have been able to squeeze into 16th had I not played like a retard.

Conclusion:
Mirri's Guile/SDT was awesome every time I drew it.
BGH for being bad ass and avoiding Counterbalance.
Kitchen Finks for being ridiculous at winning me matches I shouldn't have won (maybe I'll play 1 more in the board).
EDIT: I forgot to mention that were it not for my numerous play mistakes, Survival would have easily put me in the top 16. This can be a tough deck to play, but it is strong deck and is very rewarding to "tight" play. If I were to do it again, I would still play Survival.

PROPS:
Drew for coming out to play legacy for his first time (he went 3-5).
Star City Games for supporting Legacy.
Me for not running into combo or lands all day.
Santa Barbara Crew for being there.
My opponents for all being nice players (no douche bags)
SLOPS:
Me for playing terribly all day.

[Muela]

@Xenocide Congratulations for not giving up and thanks for the report (and the sideboarding!)
Some thoughts:
1) Why the relics? Why would you want to blow up your 'yard? wouldn't it be better more crypts/faerie macabre/loaming shaman/yixlid jailer?

2) How are your feelings about the split 2 mirri's/1 SDT? don't you think that 2 "SDT effects" would be enough?

3) Does choke worth the 3 slots? I think I would miss vexing shusher, magus of the moon, goblin sharpshooter, loxodon hierarch/kitchen/spike feeder...

@hungryboi I encourage you to post the report and list, not only would help other people learning from your mistakes, but also will it help you to remember them in the future :o)

[Lcpdenijs]

Is 2 the best number of SDT's for this deck? I dont draw it that often it feels. What about 3 or even 4?

[Xenocide]

@Xenocide Congratulations for not giving up and thanks for the report (and the sideboarding!)
Some thoughts:
1) Why the relics? Why would you want to blow up your 'yard? wouldn't it be better more crypts/faerie macabre/loaming shaman/yixlid jailer?

2) How are your feelings about the split 2 mirri's/1 SDT? don't you think that 2 "SDT effects" would be enough?

3) Does choke worth the 3 slots? I think I would miss vexing shusher, magus of the moon, goblin sharpshooter, loxodon hierarch/kitchen/spike feeder...

@hungryboi I encourage you to post the report and list, not only would help other people learning from your mistakes, but also will it help you to remember them in the future :o)

@relics - Honestly I don't know enough about the different matchups to know whether this is good in the sideboard. That being said, I think that crypt would be better in the ichorid mu b/c it means my goyfs stay big (but in that mu you want different hate cards so it's harder for them to hate your hate). In the tempo thresh mu, I'd guess that relic would be better since it nerfs their goyfs and cantrips, and you have inevitability in this mu so the longer it goes the better your chances.

@mg/sdt - I really liked having 3 MG/SDT, they were one of the best slots all day. It might even be good to up this slot to 4, but I really only want to see 2 if one gets destroyed. They just make the deck run so so so much more smoothly.

@choke - I'm not sold on choke (maybe boil/tsunami would be better), but I think that something is needed for the landstill mu (especially the UBwg one, deeds are painful).

[Misplayer]

I took my first crack at playing GBWr Survival this weekend at a local event (20 players). Here’s what I played:

4 Bayou
4 Savannah
3 Taiga
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Forest

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Genesis
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Anger
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Fleshbag Marauder

4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard:
3 Path to Exile
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Spore Frog
1 Ethersworn Canonist

I finished a disappointing 3-2 beating Burn, BG Dark Depths, and BWG Aggro-Rock (w/ Sinkhole, Hymn, Confidant and Tombstalker). I lost to Mono-Green Chalice Aggro and Zoo.
Against MGCA, Game 1 I had to Flashback therapy to hit double Natural Order, but that let him resolve Jitte, Garruk and Goyf. Game 3, he had Trinisphere, 4 Wasteland (!!!!!), and Jitte. I won game 1 against Zoo when he was stuck on land. Game 2 I never found Survival and he was able to Path, Lavamance and burn down my Goyfs while I drew lands and Birds. Game 3 I also never drew Survival or Black for Deed (drawing 4 Forest and 3 Savannah with 2 Deed in hand). Frustrating match for sure.

Mise of the day: Game 2 against BG Dark Depths (after winning Game 1), he has the combo on the board on his turn 3 (a turn before I can lock him under Magus). I do not have Swords/Path. My only play is to fetch to 19, Finks to 21 and pray. He swings me to 1. I rip Swords like a pro, play Magus on the next turn while drawing Macabre for his Loam and lock him out of the game. I should not have won that game.

Poor card choices:
Manabase – I felt light light light on mana all day. I think I want 22 lands and more fetches for color fixing. I got stuck on Black against Zoo (as mentioned above) and got stuck on white against MGCA so I couldn’t cast a very relevant Teeg.
Fleshbag Marauder – I opted for him over Shriekmaw because of the predominance of Black in my meta. He was ok, but not something I was thrilled about. The 3CMC was the most prohibitive part of the equation and Shriekmaw would have almost always been better.
Wickerbough Elder – There were 2 CounterTop decks and I never saw them. The most he did was destroy an extra Survival to get my Goyfs to 5 and swing for 4 while I was trying to knock the BG Depths player down from 64 life.
Loaming Shaman – Weak, weak slot. Again, there are usually 2-3 Ichorid decks in my meta. There was one and I never saw it. He did hit Loam against BG Dark Depths, which proved to be somewhat significant (nerfing recurring Ghost Quarter before it actually did anything).
Ethersworn Canonist – Did nothing.
Spore Frog – Likewise.

Decent card choices:
Pernicious Deed – This was good where I needed it to be: Zoo. There’s also usually an assortment Enchantress and Tomb/Chalice decks in the meta as well. I’d keep this card in.
Rofellos – He can be a win-more, but more often he is a win-now, allowing you to set up your yard the way you like it and vomit Goyfs/Witnesses/Finks onto the table relentlessly while the opponent struggles to recover. Do others think he’s worthwhile?

Changes to the list:
Main:
-1 Forest
-1 Wickerbough Elder
-1 Fleshbag Marauder
-1 Loaming Shaman

+2 Fetch
+1 Finks
+1 Shriekmaw

This gives me basically no toolbox maindeck. Maybe a Pridemage is order? Cutting what?

Side:
-1 Path
-1 Spore Frog
-1 Canonist
+1 Ingot Chewer
+1 Wickerbough Elder
+1 Finks

4 Finks + 3 Deed main/side is fast aggro and should make those matchups pretty easy. Is this overkill? Without Canonist I’m mostly cold to combo because they can usually handle Teeg pretty easily. I’m also having a difficult time balancing my creature/artifact/enchantment destruction package. I feel like Elder is a must in the 75 if you expect to beat Counterbalance. Finks may be eating up toolbox slots but they allow the deck to play better without Survival active I feel (same goes for SDTop)

I’ll definitely play this deck again and I’d appreciate any suggestions about tuning it or my approach to the archetype. For reference, Sunday’s meta looked like SupremeBlue/Progenitus, CBPainterTop, Merfolk, Zoo x3-4, Enchantress, Bant Survival, Storm Combo, Belcher, Burn x2-3, and maybe Canadian Thresh? Plus the decks mentioned above and some other random stuff.

Thoughts?

[Kesta]

Why not playing 1 plains and 1 swamp? they are really good in mana fixer slots. You can get them with 8 fetches (4 catacombs and 4 heath). I think you play too much duals. I would run 3 bayou, 2 savannah and 1 taiga, 8 fetches, 5 forest, 1 swamp and 1 plains.

I love Top and Deed, both card are broken in SurvialRock. Rofellos is good, but for me it's just a win-more and not a win-now. For me Wickerbough Elder never deserved his slot. You should play Faerie macabre main instead of Shaman. Shriekmaw > Fleshbag marauder (in mainboard).

[Muela]

About the # of SDT effects, I am quite comfortable at 2 of them in a split of 1/1 Mirri's Guile is awsome on t1, but once your mana is settle SDT rocks. I stay in 2 not because I don't want 1 in my start hand, but because I think it really counts on making worse your top deck and creature count (let's be honest, squee gets removed more often than desired).

About relics, I've started to see the full meaning in some other survival decks (actually in Bant and aggroBant decks), but I don't feel it like a proper fit in a GBWr or GBR builds... I would split my hate with other cards.

@Misplayer I agree with Kesta in your mana base. However I run this config:
4 bayou
3 savannah
2 taiga
1 swamp
1 plains
2 forest
8 fetch (4 verdant catacombs / 4 windswept heaths)
But since I have more B than you, you could cut 1 bayou for 1 more forest.

Apart from that, if you want rofellos to be win-now I would suggest you to squeeze in quirion ranger and masticore. I would try to get 1 'maw in mainboard as well.

Keep on testing the deck and you'll find out it can adapt to almost every MU.

[Misplayer]

Thanks all for your input.

Manabase: My biggest issue was colorscrew/manascrew against non-Wasteland decks. In only one game was getting Wasted to death relevant, and he drew 4 and had me under Trinisphere so I couldn't even Survival up Birds and start working that way. I'm honestly not as concerned about Wasteland as I am about colorscrew, which is why I upped my fetches and cut a basic while increasing the total number of lands to 22. If decks are going to try to waste me off a color then they’ll have to be removing my Birds as well, and if they’re wasting removal on Birds then I can drop fat Goyfs and annoying Finks off only G that they’ll have a difficult time answering. Wasting me off mana in general is more problematic, hence the 22nd land. Playing more basics will reduce the ability for my opponent to waste me off mana, but will increase the chances of color screw. That’s my rationale at least. I also don’t seem to want basic Swamp or Plains ever, and they’re not synergetic with Witness, Survival or Rofellos.

Rofellos: I’ve started testing without him (adding a Pridemage) and I feel handcuffed at times. He allows you to do stupid things like turn 4 tutoring him, playing him (w/Anger active), then casting Finks/Witness + Goyf in the same turn. The turn after he lands, you can freely get Genesis going with your lands and easily tutor double Goyf. He really shines when you’re behind way behind to an aggro deck in the mid-game. With six lands (which I recognize is a lot) you can Genesis creature X, activate Survival with Squee and creature X to get Witness and Finks or double Finks, play both and return Swords with Witness AND cast Swords or keep mana up for a Top activation. That kind of card advantage and board altering turn will win you the game against decks like Zoo and would not be possible without Rofellos, as often times getting one Finks per turn is not enough, especially if they have Path. Lastly, a Genesis activation is often a Time Walk with 5 or fewer lands (or you shut yourself off a Survival activation if you go Genesis  Goyf with 5 lands). If you’re not playing against aggro, then yes, you can grind out card advantage with Survival, but Rofellos can help you turn a game around in 1-2 turns in the aggro matchup.

[Tao]

This will be a longer post about the Iona, Shield of Emeria / Loyal Retainers combo.

Every Survival deck should play it. I also posted some parts of this in the GW thread but it belongs here as well.

This Combo is WAY too good to not be played. It is cheap, doesn't take many slots and is not disrupted by Removal. The combination of its strength and simplicity easily crushes the theory of "don't play too Combo-ish because if you have Survival you are in a good shape anyways". That theory was made before Iona was printed, just like Natural Order was not viable before Progenitus was printed. All other Survival Combos are either clumsy or easily disruptable or take way too many slots or don't do enough or need more cards than just Survival + creature to go online.
Iona / Retainers have non of these problems. This Combo will easily win you far more games that you would have lost otherwise than it loses you because you drew a Combo piece instead of a spell. It is not even close.

Iona gives you way more than for example Anger does. Not only do you need not to splash a 4th Color for it, it is just better. Think about it: No more white for Landstill, no more U for Dream Halls will win you the game instantly. The same against a ton of minor but still played decks like Burn, any Zoo/Sligh/RG Beats deck without PtE, Quinn and Imperial Painter (I guess both can still draw into their Paintercombo but it helps quite a bit to shut down the rest of their deck), Faerie Stompy, Dragon Stompy, Green Chalice Stompy, Epic Elf Survival, Pox, Eva Green and White Staxx.

No more Black for Ichorid will also give you a solid fighting chance against that deck even in G1 by shutting down Dread Return and Therapy (no sac outlets for Bridge). Against the Countertop decks it is not very likely to get Survival going but if you do it will also win you the game (name W), the same with Tempo Thresh (name U). Against RGW Zoo you have to name White because of PtE (unless you know their hand via Thoughtseize or are about to get burned to death, then you can gamble with naming R) but will still get their best Removal spell, Pridemage and Knight of the Reliquary. Against Merfolk you reduce them to Aether Vial play, Mutavault and Jitte and with the rise of Mono-R-Goblins you also get a great weapon in that matchup.


All of that plus a 7/7 flying body is really too good to not be played.

[Julian23]

I totally agree with what Tao said. Just like Dreadstill can sometimes drop t2 Dreadnought with Forcebackup and crush the opponent the same is true for Iona. You would be suprised how "easy" it actually it is to assemble the combo. All you need for turn 3 Iona is Survival+Hierarch+3 lands. This is just dumb, it hits so hard that justifies the two slots.

Bonus (but neglectable: Retainers can return Vendillion Clique. I won at least one game during the last tournament because of that).

[Muela]

@Misplayer I see your points. Test it and come back with results please :)

@Tao +1 about Iona. It is just too good, not to be played. Just be aware not to fall in "wow! let's get some more legends to maximize loyals!" (Vendilion is out of this :P, it is soo good on its own that loyal tricks are just a plus)

[Seraph2k]

@Tao
You are right about the combo. I play Iona and her best friend since two weeks in my testbuilt and I simply love it.

[Tacosnape]

Loyal Retainers also returns Squee to play!

...But seriously, the Iona/Loyal Retainers combo fixes an overlooked problem of Survival, which is the misconception that if you have an active Survival, you're going to win. This isn't true anymore and hasn't been true for awhile. Decks that play large quantities of the same permanents (Enchantress, 38 Lands, Affinity/Stax, Goblins) or decks that possess large quantities of the same problems (Decks with a lot of Burn, for example) can cause problems due to their ability to generate said permanents faster than Survival can recur its silver bullets. Combo decks can still go off. Zoo decks can burn you out faster than you can silver bullet for lifegaining. Etc.

Iona/LR fixes this by doing the following:

1. Against Tribal Aggro (Merfolk, Goblins, etc), it shuts off their ability to play most things and gives you a large 7/7 blocker to give you time to stabilize against what's currently on the board, as well as time to pick off any offending Aether Vials.

2. Against Zoo, Iona gives you a huge blocker and shuts off their burn as well as their ability to play Lavamancer, Ape, Figure, and if they run it, Thoctar. It can also go for Green or White if circumstances dictate.

3. Against Combo, it can cause a multitude of problems assuming your discard and other tools (Teegs, etc) managed to keep things in check meanwhile. It can shut down black against Storm Combo or Dredge, blue against Dream Halls, etc. It's only really weak against Painter Stone, as Painter's Servant messes with your trickery.

4. Against Control, it can seriously shut off their removal and/or draw engines.

5. It ranges from decent to amazing against -everything-.

What it doesn't do is help your early game, and it's as useless as everything else if you don't have your Survival going.

[chris_acheson]

It's only really weak against Painter Stone, as Painter's Servant messes with your trickery.

If they play Painter's Servant before you play Iona, just name whatever color they named. This hard locks them, and then you get to race their 1/3 with a 7/7 flyer. I'm considering running Painter myself, but I figure I'll wait until I actually lose a game or two with Iona on the table.

[crow_mw]

I am glad, that the idea of being able to 'combo out' turned out to be quite appealing. I think that the next step in improving our own lists is to discuss how many dead draws / cards good only with survival we can afford with two additional in form of Retainers and Iona.

Anger - 4c lists pop up from time to time, and he is without a doubt very good, but maybe he needs to wait until WotC prints more good red cards. Removing him in addition to reducing the number of dead draws improves our manabase.

Genesis - Bant Sur runs him in board, new Tao list didn't find place for him even there. In rock builds, while mana hungry, it is still very good.

Wonder - Bant runs this MD, but I have too limited experience with that build to get an idea how useful is he.

Squee - I doubt anyone sane would opt to remove him (unless they replace him with Horror, but imho it is a weaker choice).

Rofellos - He is not a dead draw some of us argue, that he is a better t2 play than Survival. He is however usually treated as 'part of the Survival engine' and it seems that the lack of Anger in deck severely weakens his usefulness as tutor target.

Others - Quirion Ranger, very narrow silver-bullets, hate cards for uncommon decks...

[MattH]

If they play Painter's Servant before you play Iona, just name whatever color they named. This hard locks them, and then you get to race their 1/3 with a 7/7 flyer. I'm considering running Painter myself, but I figure I'll wait until I actually lose a game or two with Iona on the table.

This doesn't work so well; if they have Painter on board, they can probably REB your Loyal Retainers.

However,

It's only really weak against Painter Stone, as Painter's Servant messes with your trickery.

This is only true if they land Painter first, as above. If you Iona first, name red; Painter makes things blue in addition to the colors they already were.

[Tacosnape]

This is only true if they land Painter first, as above. If you Iona first, name red; Painter makes things blue in addition to the colors they already were.

This is true, but it still doesn't stop the combo itself.

I am glad, that the idea of being able to 'combo out' turned out to be quite appealing. I think that the next step in improving our own lists is to discuss how many dead draws / cards good only with survival we can afford with two additional in form of Retainers and Iona.

Anger - 4c lists pop up from time to time, and he is without a doubt very good, but maybe he needs to wait until WotC prints more good red cards. Removing him in addition to reducing the number of dead draws improves our manabase.

Genesis - Bant Sur runs him in board, new Tao list didn't find place for him even there. In rock builds, while mana hungry, it is still very good.

Wonder - Bant runs this MD, but I have too limited experience with that build to get an idea how useful is he.

Squee - I doubt anyone sane would opt to remove him (unless they replace him with Horror, but imho it is a weaker choice).

Rofellos - He is not a dead draw some of us argue, that he is a better t2 play than Survival. He is however usually treated as 'part of the Survival engine' and it seems that the lack of Anger in deck severely weakens his usefulness as tutor target.

My view on this is as follows:

Rofellos & Anger: You either run them both or you don't run either. They're both powerhouses when you're going, and Rofellos can quickly put everything you want in the yard into the yard. He also fuels Witness and Genesis like there's no tomorrow.

Wonder: I think you run either it or the Loyal Retainers/Iona engine but not both. The reasoning for it is that Iona's your largest impact threat and flies anyway.

Genesis: You run him. Often overlooked is that he's actually some builds' biggest threat if you're getting yardhated.

Squee: You run him. I've seen lists run 2 around here to maximize the card advantage you get with Survival (They also run red and 4 MD Therapy), but I don't really know about all that.

Quirion Ranger: You run him if you anticipate facing a million Wastelands and are running Rofellos. Multiple Rofellos taps in a turn are sexy, but not as sexy as protecting your manabase. If you don't run Rofellos, you could probably just run more Birds/Hierarchs/Basic Forests.