[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[Dia_Bot]

just a little question to Nemavera: the 3 reports, did you always play with DD Ant in those cases?

PS: could someone tell me what the most important benefit is of playing NLS over DD ant?
(becouse people start playing maindeck hatebears in my local meta so i wonder if it would be a good idea to switch from DD ant to NLS)

[Henrik]

What is NLS exactly?
The Hybrid of ANT and TES, running red mainly for Burning Wish?

[Nidd]

That's it pretty much. Also, most NLS lists run Discard over Chants.

[johanessen]

G2: He's got Chalice 1 again, and then he drops a Standstill (!?) without having a critter. I just draw and try do get another land, yet I don't find a another land. At the time he's got 8 cards in Hand, he breaks his own Standstill and drops a second Chalice (at 0) along with another Standstill. I play some lands, he breaks his second Standstill and drops a Serendib Efreet and attempts to play a third Standstill. I bounce his Efreet in Response to his Standstill with Echoing Truth. Few Turns later he breaks his Standstill again, drops an Efreet along with a Chalice at 2. I grip the Chalice 2 eot, and in my turn I bounce the Chalice at 1 and at 0 via Hurkyl's Recall and win via 8 Spells => Tendrils (he took some damage from his Ancient Tomb)

That guy is incredible! Amazing skillz.

[Henrik]

Also, most NLS lists run Discard over Chants.

Can you say why that is?
Thanks!

[emidln]

NLS plays Duress effects because I couldn't make a 5c manabase work without City of Brass/Gemstone Mine. I tried (a lot) but it never came to be something I was happy with (you cut down to too few fetches and weaken Brainstorm and SDT significantly).

NLS was designed to play the two best storm engines in the format (Ad Nauseam and Doomsday). It has backup plans of Infernal Tutor->IGG and Empty the Warrens (off Burning Wish). Because of the tutor configuration (4 Mystical, 4 Wish, 0-1 Infernal Tutor) you're more likely to cast Doomsday (8-9 tutors + 1 dd) than Ad Nauseam (4-5 tutors + 1 adn), but you're significantly more likely to cast either of those than IT->IGG or ETW. This is good because DD and AdN are amongst the cheapest ways to win in Magic. This is bad if you aren't intimately familiar with Doomsday piles since at least half of the time you will want to cast the card to win. NLS has several pass the turn piles that can beat an opponent from 18-22 life, can easily win through Chalice effects, mostly ignores hatebears (even game one), and still has Empty the Warrens available to it.

NLS comes in two varieties for protection: white splash de-emphasizing green and green splash ignoring/deemphasizing white. The white stuff NLS wants to play:

Orim's Chant
Silence
Disenchant
Serenity
Vindicate

The green stuff NLS wants to play:

Xantid Swarm
Krosan Grip
Reverent Silence
Ancient Grudge (flashback cost is G and without that, it's Shatter)
eases the use of Vexing Shusher (additional source to cast and use his ability)

When NLS plays without white, 4-7 maindeck slots are eaten up by a combination of Duress, Thoughtseize, and/or Xantid Swarm (yes, I have and do maindeck Xantid Swarms and they are clutch). I've yet to play the deck with maindeck Pyroblasts and I don't foresee a future where I would. I'm able to win the tempo matchup (Merfolk, Canadian Thresh, that shitty Bant deck) without Orim's Chant although it takes a lot more work inside each game carefully playing my discard so I don't consider Chant to be absolutely necessary. Duress, amongst the obvious benefits of being able to take some important permanent-based hate, can hit mass removal like EE, Firespout, Wrath, etc to enable ETW. This is big in certain matchups (CB) where they generally have very few good answers for it. I don't think believe the manabase instability caused by Chant is worth the increased tempo matchup when you can already win it through tight play the majority of the time anyway.

[Henrik]

Thank you for that explanation.

I am not prepared to bring DD to a tournament just yet, but as I get to it, I might consider trying NLS. Are these DD-with-burning-wish-go-piles written down in your DD-pile summary? I have read that but didn't think of examining those piles closer.

So I take it you have already tested this version in tournament play with good results?


EDIT:

Oh, and an updated list or a reference to what page in this thread I can find your latest list, would also help. Thanks!

[Dia_Bot]

emidln, thank you for the information, certainly very interesting!
I think i'm gonna sleeve up a NLS deck and start testing :)

[Nemavera]

Yeah, played the DD/ANT Hybrid all three times. The first two reports were played with my list from Hanau. In the third tournament I played the same list but -1 Carpet of Flowers +1 Xantid Swarm.

[mercc]

Nemavera: Serenity in SB against dragonstompy?

[GoldenCid]

And..what about burn?? I didn't read a report against that deck. I craps our ADN win cond.

[emidln]

And..what about burn?? I didn't read a report against that deck. I craps our ADN win cond.

1) That deck is terrible so you don't expect to play against it past round 1.
2) No it doesn't see cards like Orim's Chant, Silence, and Ill-Gotten Gains.

[Crimen]

A friend of mine is starting to test extract against this deck and it really is a horrible card against me. You guys think this card is going to be played in the tournament scene (or already is)? and what would be my best answer against this card? I'm thinking about including a 2e tendrils SB, but what do you guys think would be best to do?

[Dia_Bot]

In my meta most people play mindbreak trap over extract, but if people start to play extract in your meta you could either add one more tendrils to the sideboard or go the NLS way. That way you're always safe against those cards becouse of burning wish. Or even a hybrid version like citanul's list with 2 burning wishes will protect you against extract-like cards + it has the additional wishboard answer against maindeck hatebears.

[Illissius]

What you do against it is nothing because no one plays it.

For the record, I was looking through deckcheck the other day precisely to evaluate the viability of Extract as a sideboard plan against Tendrils, and there were too many lists with either more than one Tendrils, or Burning Wish and another in the board, to make that a plan I'd be interested in pursuing.

[Van Phanel]

I just wanted to mention that Carpet of Flowers is going to be improved with the next oracle update:

It will be possible to gain the mana postcombat thus improving the synergy with Xantid Swarm.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...ure/75b&page=2

New wording
At the beginning of each of your main phases, if you haven't added mana to your mana pool with Carpet of Flowers this turn, you may add up to X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the number of Islands target opponent controls.

Now this is obviously not the reinvention of the Wheel, but especially against Merfolk I've actually had that come up in testing every now and then.

[Crimen]

In my meta most people play mindbreak trap over extract, but if people start to play extract in your meta you could either add one more tendrils to the sideboard or go the NLS way. That way you're always safe against those cards becouse of burning wish. Or even a hybrid version like citanul's list with 2 burning wishes will protect you against extract-like cards + it has the additional wishboard answer against maindeck hatebears.

Thanks for the advise. It seems the card looks more scary against ANT then it will really be in tournaments, since most don't play it and some people play 2e tendrils or burning wish. I like the idea of burning wish, will be looking into NLS a little bit. For now it will be /ignore my friend and just add another tendrils in my deck before I play him casually ^^

[Piceli89]

I just wanted to mention that Carpet of Flowers is going to be improved with the next oracle update:

It will be possible to gain the mana postcombat thus improving the synergy with Xantid Swarm.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...ure/75b&page=2



Now this is obviously not the reinvention of the Wheel, but especially against Merfolk I've actually had that come up in testing every now and then.

This is just great. Carpet of Flowers is going to be furtherly strong against blue decks, since you can trick them in the main combat starting a counterwar with Chants, and they usually tap mana from islands before playing daze, to bluff brainstorm or other counters/stifle.Now you get to pass to the combat and empty their pool while keeping yours!

[alderon666]

Yeah, this solidifies green in the sideboard of ANT. I really love Xantid Swarm as my meta is filled with merfolk and Carpet of Flowers is just awesome against mana denial strategies and Daze-like counters. Being able to use them togheter is just awesome.

[Nemavera]

Nemavera: Serenity in SB against dragonstompy?

The problem with serenity is that you cannot tutor for it, so you have to play 3+ and an additional plains in your board. Usually in my meta there are a maximum of 2 DragonStompy for every 50 people, so I don't want to waste a SB-Slot for a matchup I rarely get. Furthermore, the matchup stays a uphill battle, especially if your opponents starts boarding Mindbreak Traps. All in all, I more or less ignore this matchup, as goblins does with combo. I prefer playing some cards that are more flexible, like Hurkyl's Recall, Echoing Truth or K-Grip than Serenity.